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Demon possession Vs Mental illness
any one have any literature about this? or comments they wish to share?
God bless
Kerestina
God bless
Kerestina
Comments
any one have any literature about this? or comments they wish to share?
God bless
Kerestina
well they can be differentiated by medical doctors!!!
[quote author=kerestina link=topic=6514.msg86125#msg86125 date=1208918745]
any one have any literature about this? or comments they wish to share?
God bless
Kerestina
well they can be differentiated by medical doctors!!!
You might wana elaborate...jus a lil if u dont mind ;)
doctors r in a powerful position and often WRONG diagnosises are made...
so the church onli relies on the doctors opinion?
Yes, we believe that there is a difference between the two conditions. Otherwise, the results would be disastrous.
Most likely, they get the opinions of multiple doctors. Really, exorcism would be by all means, the FINAL STEP in such a situation.
H.G. Bishop Antonius Markos mentioned also that possession is accompanied with a distinct stench.
I apologize for the lack of official documentation, these satements are just what I have gathered from my incomprehensive research on the subject.
Nice to hear from you again Kerestina :P
as for mental conditions im not sure....
Perhaps utter fear of the cross etc is a tell tale sign of possession (?)
Happy Pascha!
But a person who is mentaly ill i would assume/ i wanna think and say that it is a person who laughs alot say non sense, had an issue in their lives that made them be who they are....like for example a rich person who loses all of his/her money and get over that there was a time where they had plenty of money and servants and goes mentaly ill. A person who is mentaly ill is more likely to kill themselves than a person who is possesed!
Again, this is just my own personal thoughts that I have shared there is no right or wrong to it.
pray for me,
bentBABAyasooa`
I haven't seen either kinds but.... I would assume/ I wanna think and say that a person who screams and does realy evil things to others and acts differently as in..... clothes they wear or what they do in their homes if they behadaro arwah or whatever or they are friends with el shayatean then they are possesed.
This is not necessarily true, just because they dress differently and act differently means they are possessed, they good be going through a clinical depression of some sort and this is their way of dealing with it(whether its right or wrong is not the issue). People who are possessed may not go through a 180 degree change in attitude, remember the devil is smarter than that, if a demon wants to stay in that person and make his life miserable would he want to make it obvious that the person has been possessed by him? of course not! he wants to put this person through torment but yet not make it obvious(we don't know whats goin on inside this person while they are possessed they could be in an enourmous amount of anguish and pain and nobody even realize it. It's most definetly not obvious(in some cases) that a person is possessed. It only becomes obvious when they go to a church and start screaming when the water is sprayed on them or a saint is in the church or by the sign of the cross.
I would like to add something: A person who has a mental illness never screams when some one prays on him or when he is inside the church or hear the Name of our Lord Jesus Christ.
He might not liked to be touched but not to the point that when you say Besm El Salib that he will scream. These are more common signs for those who are demon possessed. There is a medical case thou called demonomania: A form of madness in which the patient conceives himself possessed of devils. so this condition started as a mental Illness that lead later to the idea of being possessed by demons. I am not sure if they are truly demon possessed or it is all in their head, but it will be good to know how the church deals with it.
May the blessing of the Pacha week be with us all.
thanks severus ;D
No problem, I hoped I even remotely helped :)
A person who is mentally ill will never screram when god's name is mentioned or the holy trinity or when they are a church or abona comes to visit or when there is a saint present :)
The first time was at Deir Abouna Yassa, as i was comming out of the church, i saw a woman outside in the court yard being escorted and upon stepping into the church itself she threw herself onto the floor and screamed and cried insanely. She wouldnt stop until she was pulled out of the church even though both priests present kept spraying Holy Water and praying on her but to no avail. Last thing i rememberthat day was one priest holding her hand and talking to her outside in the court yard.
The second incident was at Mass, in the women's heikel, were a woman was approaching to take the Holy Body. And as Abouna said "the Holy Body of Christ" she immediately collapsed and started screaming and would not move off the floor, of course she was dragged out as Abouna continued to adminster the Holy Sacrament. I remeber comming down from Sunday School to look into the Lady's Altar and see her just lying down on the floor facing the roof.
[quote author=bentBABAyasooa` link=topic=6514.msg86147#msg86147 date=1208961642]
But a person who is mentaly ill i would assume/ i wanna think and say that it is a person who laughs alot say non sense, had an issue in their lives that made them be who they are....like for example a rich person who loses all of his/her money and get over that there was a time where they had plenty of money and servants and goes mentaly ill. A person who is mentaly ill is more likely to kill themselves than a person who is possesed!
firstly there is a higher risk of someone hurting themselves if they have been diagnosed with a mental illness for example people with schizophrenia when they experience an episode are split from reality...so they may think they are St MAry or invincible to all thus endangering their livess....although in saying that people with a mental illness would never harm a soul....they fear others.....
mental illnesses are not neccesarily genetic..there is no definite cause but possible reasons is traumatic experiences, DRUG USAGE especially mixing drugs.....
people can only be treated if they have been diagnosed.....once diagnosed medication is sought to suit the person...this medication aims to prevent episodes.....there are different types of mental illnesses
this topic has often intrigued me and ive always thought about it...especially growing up cause there was this man that used to always catch my bus but at the time i didnt know what a mental illness was so i assmed due to his behaviour that he was possessed, he used to talk to himself quitely and walk around aimlessly..it was quite disturbing...n i often thought should i speak to them but i never did actually i wish i did now :(...anywways God be with him
btw some people can live perfectly normal lives and have a mental illness....people study and work like others....
another question is: does the medicaal intervention always work?
i think for depression...NO lol....for other illnesses yes although u need more than the drugs u need peer supports and social interactions
God bless n take care
Laterz
another question is: does the medicaal intervention always work?
i think for depression...NO lol....for other illnesses yes although u need more than the drugs u need peer supports and social interactions
God bless n take care
Laterz
well, depends i mean
Bipolar Disorder "Manic Depression" is a disease many people have, some don't even know it because it's usually triggered by a major crisis or event, whether positive or negative (usually negative).
There are basically two major types of BP, one is where a person spends 3/4th of his time Depressed and a fourth manic, were he just goes around showing unreasonable behavior, cursing, spending sprees, basically taking everything to an extreme. The other type is the opposite 3/4th manic and 1/4th depressed.
Studys have def showed that this disorder is linked to a decrease of Lithium in the person's body, so oral tabs have to be administered. This usually gets the job done, but in severe cases it doenst.
So i guess some medications can work on specific types of depression, but i mean a person who is suffering from post-traumatic depression, i'd really doubt would be affected by meds.
exactly, I personally saw two demon possessed women.
The first time was at Deir Abouna Yassa, as i was comming out of the church, i saw a woman outside in the court yard being escorted and upon stepping into the church itself she threw herself onto the floor and screamed and cried insanely. She wouldnt stop until she was pulled out of the church even though both priests present kept spraying Holy Water and praying on her but to no avail. Last thing i rememberthat day was one priest holding her hand and talking to her outside in the court yard.
The second incident was at Mass, in the women's heikel, were a woman was approaching to take the Holy Body. And as Abouna said "the Holy Body of Christ" she immediately collapsed and started screaming and would not move off the floor, of course she was dragged out as Abouna continued to adminster the Holy Sacrament. I remeber comming down from Sunday School to look into the Lady's Altar and see her just lying down on the floor facing the roof.
I think that its very hard to distinguish between the two, just because someone from the medical profession would've almost definitely ruled out the second case as a seizure and I, for one, consider it cruel that she was left lying on the floor even until after sunday school. Also, one could argue that the mentally ill person who refuses to enter the church, only does so because he/she doesn't like the smoke from the incense, or the multitude of people that will end up looking at him/her upon entrance. Even exorcism won't prove that a certain person had a demon, by today's logical standards, because almost everyone outside the church will claim that the "patient" only thought they had a demon, and the exorcism acted as the placebo effect, making him think that he was cured, and ultimately "curing" him. All I can say on this matter is that having dealt with many logical thinkers at my academy, I can tell you that it will be VERY hard to claim that a person is possessed, without being called insane yourself by the professionals around you. Also, about the youtube video, I don't doubt their integrity, however, it will be very easy for someone outside the church to dismiss them as orchestrated, you can say that some of those people are muslim, but all that the person doubting their integrity would have to say is that the church paid them off in advance to come and act this out.
As for deciding whether a person is demon-possessed or not, I can only think of one way; and its just my idea, its not official or anything. BUT if a person is demon-possessed, then all you have to do is wait until he/she sleeps, then put the cross on their head or chest, if they respond, and you were sure that they were sleeping, then they must be demon-possessed, right? If you doubt their unconsciousness, and since we're going to rely on medicine first before resorting to exorcism (as stated earlier by Severus), then you might as well anesthetize them and then try this, I'm sure the demon inside that person can wake him/her up out of his/her anesthesia to avoid the holy cross.
Just to let you know, these are all my opinions and things that I found out on my own, in no way are any of these statements based on church related sources.
Pray4me
Bishoy
if you get down to it... there is barely any difference! for a person with lets say schizophrenia, thats a person that hears voices telling him/her anything from throwing a glass on the floor to killing his/herself or others! depending on the level that a person is on! so there are many demon possessed who are in hospitals for treatment of psychological illnesses... and there are mentally ill that are being, or were tried to be exercised from satanic possessions!
now there are extreme characteristics to both, all depending on what level one is... for the satanic possessions there are levels, and for mental illnesses there are levels also! and when the levels are extreme or high of both... thats when you notice there is a problem... but there is the lower levels... in which you will not know if they have anything at all... they can be chillin with you at church... for there are people who are demon possessed in churches... but when God wills to be Glorified in which ever time he choses, he sends that person to... or is met by... the person or whatever through whom or through which God will allow the exorcism to be exercised...
now for the mental illness... again depends on what level that person is... he/she might show signs or might show very little of it! some of my friends at school are schizophrenic... but they have it in such a small level that its barely notable... but they hear voices in their head saying some messed up stuff! but around their neck there is a cross, they came with me to church...
now this topic is pretty cool... because I study psychology... and i have personal interest in exorcism, and satanic possessions and such! so this question for a long time has boggled me... but I saw people getting better by medications from clinical psychological illnesses... and i saw people being relieved from their possession through the church! but God will allow somebody to be captive... and will free them in his due time! there is nothing wrong with their brains... or anything of such... and God also allows people to be held captive by illnesses psychological or other... in such there are chemical imbalances... missing nerves... or etc...
Indeed He arose Himself!
I mean deamon possession can't be that common right? + who is most vulnerable to being possessed by a deamon?
God bless
any one have any literature about this? or comments they wish to share?
God bless
Kerestina
coucou Kerestina, nice to see u again! I really hope u are doing well by the way.
I was thinking of this issue in fact. I was really surprised that someone had thought of the same subject also. I really believe they are SO closely related, if not the same even.
What gives me that impression?? well.. I knew several men that had mental illnesses. Major. I mean, one i think was schizophrenic, and the other had some kind of mental disorder. Now, both were coptic. I knew them from the Church.
Both had one thing in common: They needed the Holy Communion. I mean, i remember once someone was really upset with the brother that was schizophrenic in CHurch, and abouna was not happy about giving him the Holy COmmunion. The man was begging abouna for the communion. He needed it. Both did. Whenever they were far from the CHurch, or stopped taking communion, they did the saddest things to themselves. Really!! It was heartbreaking. I knew them both quite well (the latter was actually a really good friend), so I can say these comments. Now, it would be so interesting to see the effect of Holy Communion on mental disorders.
Were they "demon possessed" ??? Well.. if they didn't have Holy Communion, they would do very odd things to themselves.
I know for me, that if I do not take the Eucharist, this is not good. Not that I want to go and kill people, but i'm exposing myself to diabolical attacks without any protection or armour.
pray for me
joe
Very odd does not necessaily mean demon-possessed. As for the connection between Holy Communion and being possessed, I remember someone told me that you can't be possessed by devils unless you haven't taken Holy Communion for 40 days... But I searched the Canons of the Apostles, and that brought nothing up.
pray for me
joe
Yeah.. i heard the same thing.
But i think what they meant is that if you do not take the Eucharist for up to 40 days, it will allow the devil to attack you.
Do we become possessed? I think we can all be guilty of doing crazy things (whether minor or major) when we are far from God. I mean, its obvious. Who is a saint? Who is above temptation from the devil?
Why 40 days?? I don't know. But I do believe in this very much.
I really do believe demon possessed. I honestly do. You have the image of a man frothing at the mouth, and speaking weired things in demonic languages... i see demon possessed as someone who gets a gun and goes out to kill people in a Church for no apparent reason. I see demon possessed when I no longer become the instrument of God's peace, but I became a partner in destroying myself or others (for example.. say).
THere are mental illnesses that are so closely related to Spiritual well-being. I do believe that through Coptic Spirituality, most can be cured. When I say Coptic, i mean: we are a good church - generally in terms of our understanding and administration of the Holy Sacraments. By partaking of these on a regular basis, they can only do good for the person.
pray for me
joe
joe
Perhaps then in the eyes of the church a man possessed with a demon is different than someone who is mentally ill.
I feel that mentally ill people can be treated with the Eucharist (if they are baptised, and believe).
A person can do really crazy things if he/she is away from God and is not a constant partaker of the Holy Sacraments. Either they will realise it sooner or later.
pray for me
joe