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question...

EnoughEnough
edited December 1969 in Coptic Orthodox Church
y do people always ask if a hymn is reliable or valid??? wat does that mean and y do we say that one muallim is more correct over another one??
Do people try to change the hymns? and if they do y? how would that benefit them in any way?
i ve heard numerous discussions over whether a hymn is valid or not... wats the difference even if it is a little bit off.
forgive me for my ignorance
Enough

Comments

  • minatasgeelminatasgeel
    [quote author=Enough link=topic=6530.msg86364#msg86364 date=1209506103]
    y do people always ask if a hymn is reliable or valid??? wat does that mean and y do we say that one muallim is more correct over another one??
    Do people try to change the hymns? and if they do y? how would that benefit them in any way?
    i ve heard numerous discussions over whether a hymn is valid or not... wats the difference even if it is a little bit off.
    forgive me for my ignorance
    Enough


    well it depends ont he little bit your talking about. i personally a little bit doent make a hymn invalid but somtimes that confirms it.

    the idea is that many people can just randomly make a hymn and say its an old hymn. if he doesn't have a srouce of a trusted muallem/preist/deacon, than it is not valid and it should not be chanted in our churchs. its that simple.
  • Amoussa01
    Some people try to add personal touch in their learning cd's which i am against. Sometimes a cantor forgets the hymn and makes up a way to arrive to the end. There are many reasons, but the best thing is to have an ultimate source which we can all relay on for the benefit of chanting together in unison.

    GB
    Tony
  • EnoughEnough
    but how would that benefit them if they made up a hymn and claim its an old one? and y would a muallim make up an ending to a hymn that he's not sure about... i just dont get y people would even do that... i understand that we cant use a hymn thats made up but y would they even bother making it up?
  • Amoussa01
    Moalem's do have a sense of pride. They want to be respected as almost "all-knowing" when it comes to hymns. Some of them go to great lengths just to do this! Plus, how would it look if i was a muallem and i forgot to say o nim nia and the rest know it by heart? It could make me want to improvise if i forgot... so there can be many stupid reasons. However, some of them could just be mistakes. After all, no one is perfect.

    GB
    Tony
  • jydeaconjydeacon
    [quote author=Amoussa01 link=topic=6530.msg86372#msg86372 date=1209507377]
    Some people try to add personal touch in their learning cd's which i am against. Sometimes a cantor forgets the hymn and makes up a way to arrive to the end. There are many reasons, but the best thing is to have an ultimate source which we can all relay on for the benefit of chanting together in unison.

    GB
    Tony


    I agree with you guys, but tony, the ultimate source has been made to be the Great Mlm Mikhael el Batanouny because he was the first to record all the hymns of the church(at least most of them) and his students.

    Enough, Like others have said, they have a sense of pride and don't want to be seen messing up or what not. I've heard that the great mlm Mikhael did that for the kyrie eleison for lent and added more to it than others do because of time. So ibrahim ayad adopted it and i believe he uses that version. A hymn is valid if it has a reliable source and is backed up by more than one reliable source. For example: Oniatk o enthok dimas the hymn that was discussed earlier on the forum, a priest sang the song in the tune of piepnevma in its entirety while i believe it should have been done the way the HCOC did it.
  • Amoussa01
    jydeacon,

    i never said we didnt have a source, but as far as im concerned, no one asked who it was. So i am not arguing that it is muallem mikhail. The issue with kerie leyson is that muallem mikhail purposefully added a part from taishory pascha because it took a long time for the pope to finish his circuit. Even though this is true, it is still good to follow our source.

    GB
    Tony
  • mnc_hnnmnc_hnn
    oh my god!!!!! even hymns have problems?  is anything ever problem free???????
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