Peche Melba is amazing. Pain perdu is wonderful... u can make it home.. its basically sweet-bread, cooked in milk, and heated... (in a nutshell).
ugggghhh..
Of course, if u eat a lot, its important to do a lot of charitable deeds so u burn off those calories.
Visiting the people in prison takes a lot of calories. Especially if they are violent towards u.
Suffering for righteousness sake consumes a LOT of calories, especially if u are wounded in the process. So, suffer a bit to burn off those calories!!
Also, being a peace-maker is another fine way to burn calories, especially if u happen to be making peace between someone sa3eedi and someone skindaranee.
Also, the biggest way to burn calories is to have a pure heart. To have a pure heart, u cannot be sitting around idle, U have to be doing something spiritual that's edifying u. Running away from temptation is the best way. How many calarioes could u burn by running away from temptation. Then u could even TIME yourself to see how far u could run each time u are tempted???
So, eat by all means, but then u need to do the exercises to help u burn those calories.
God bless
OMG u made me laugh..so is that how you stay in shape???????? lol
Are u being serious or joking?
Did u not know!?
The pope's father of confession was called Fr. Mikhail Ibrahim. He used to tell his children to do prostrations (Maetonia's) JUST to help them burn calories to avoid keeping the mind idle, which gives a chance for the devil to attack u.
Why did u think I was joking for?? Its VERY serious in fact.
Especially in your youth, keep your mind busy with sport, exercise, matonia's , prayer... once your mind is idle, the devil will attack u.
[quote author=He Wept link=topic=6387.msg86950#msg86950 date=1210211977] im not sayin that on Easter, that u shouldnt eat 10 pounds of meat, everyone does lol.
[quote author=Hizz_chiilld link=topic=6387.msg87032#msg87032 date=1210335423] [quote author=He Wept link=topic=6387.msg86950#msg86950 date=1210211977] im not sayin that on Easter, that u shouldnt eat 10 pounds of meat, everyone does lol.
LOL not everyone ...
yeah..for example me..i only eat 9.8 pounds of meat. see? ;D
[quote author=God_Worshiper link=topic=6387.msg87071#msg87071 date=1210380018] [move]guys the only reason its a sin if ur eating when u r not hungry is beacause u r hurting ur body which is a sin:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D[/move]
i really disagree with that, as someone also is hurting their body much more if they don't eat when they are hungry. The hurt is much more serious (even).
I think any extreme is wrong: whether eating too much, or too little.
This topic is not about eating too much. Its about eating as a hobby. Someone loves the taste of food, and eats a lot because he/she loves the taste of it.
I'm just so sorry this person has this hobby and is not living in France where the food tastes much better than in the USA/UK and the rest of Europe.
That's why I asked him/her IF she/he had a problem fasting. If they cannot control themselves to the point where they desire eating other people's food, or where they cannot fast before Communion, then yes, they have a problem.
God made food taste good to help us eat it. If someone appreciates food that much, and they thank God so much for creating food that tastes that good, all the more better. I admit, some people are talented in appreciating food. For me, it all tastes good so long as its not British food or Chinese.
I really recommend that you see the movie Ratatouille to understand more about this issue. lol
For someone living in France, I can tell you, food is taken very seriously. You cannot mix certain things together and eat it, and call yourself French (lol). Their appreciation for taste of food is much more advanced than americans and the british (and most definately Egyptians).
[quote author=mnc_hnn link=topic=6387.msg87186#msg87186 date=1210524036] why r u calling it a hobby ^ ???
Hello there!
I've been thinking about this problem for ages. Sometimes I can't sleep just thinking about it. Whenever I'm in the shower, i'm thinking about it, and its distracting me from singing.
How can this be a sin? I'm saying its a sin if she/he is eating a lot because they cannot control themselves. But, if they have a gift for taste. If they LOVE the taste of food, then it seems like a hobby, or a past-time.
If they cannot fast during lent unless they eat, and their eating is to satisfy their desire for the love of food, then its a problem. But if they are eating because they love food,yet they can easily control themselves sufficiently to fast during lent (and for mass, and for all other Orthodox fasting), then great.
lol i dont mean i would call it a sin..but i wouldnt call it a hobby either..u know what i mean?? and please do not let the problem distract you from singing in the shower ;D
[quote author=QT_PA_2T link=topic=6387.msg86968#msg86968 date=1210238576] [quote author=He Wept link=topic=6387.msg86950#msg86950 date=1210211977] we shouldnt be worries about what we eat on Earth, we should just eat to live not for pleasure, im not sayin that on Easter, that u shouldnt eat 10 pounds of meat, everyone does lol. but eating may bring you away form God whether u know it or not, u could be eating all day, forgeting God, and may not even thank God for the food.
What's in the heart?? I mean, God looks at the heart. We all eat.. and God made the food taste nice to encourage us to eat. But, why do u feel its a sin. Are u eating someone else's food?? Do u desire someone else's food?? Do u desire my Peche Melba??
well that makes sense, but the rest you said confused me lol, not in a bad way though...
[quote author=mnc_hnn link=topic=6387.msg87206#msg87206 date=1210539854] lol i dont mean i would call it a sin..but i wouldnt call it a hobby either..u know what i mean?? and please do not let the problem distract you from singing in the shower ;D
and i would say everyone sings in the shwoer, but i may be corrected once again :)
[quote author=He Wept link=topic=6387.msg87227#msg87227 date=1210555247] [quote author=QT_PA_2T link=topic=6387.msg86968#msg86968 date=1210238576] [quote author=He Wept link=topic=6387.msg86950#msg86950 date=1210211977] we shouldnt be worries about what we eat on Earth, we should just eat to live not for pleasure, im not sayin that on Easter, that u shouldnt eat 10 pounds of meat, everyone does lol. but eating may bring you away form God whether u know it or not, u could be eating all day, forgeting God, and may not even thank God for the food.
What's in the heart?? I mean, God looks at the heart. We all eat.. and God made the food taste nice to encourage us to eat. But, why do u feel its a sin. Are u eating someone else's food?? Do u desire someone else's food?? Do u desire my Peche Melba??
well that makes sense, but the rest you said confused me lol, not in a bad way though...
[quote author=mnc_hnn link=topic=6387.msg87206#msg87206 date=1210539854] lol i dont mean i would call it a sin..but i wouldnt call it a hobby either..u know what i mean?? and please do not let the problem distract you from singing in the shower ;D
and i would say everyone sings in the shwoer, but i may be corrected once again :)
i do sometimes..depends on the mood...lol...u r really funny
well i think that if we should learn how to be satisfied w/ the lil we have...i think sometimes ppl and i do this ALOT...i think that we eat w/ our eyes not w/ our stomach like we eat everything that is good and compared when eat w/ our stomach to when eat w/ our eyes...we probably eat ALOT less then w/ our eyes and I LOVE FOOD TOO lol but we should learn how to control our selves and our desires wether it be w/ food, TV, phone...
I mean, this person is eating a lot of food because they like the taste of food. Well.... that's normal. I for example, hate the taste of marmite. If i keep on eating marmite when I know I hate the taste of it, then that's just sa3eedi.. its not even a sin.. its just plain stupid. So, this person is smart. They're enjoying what they eat. I mean, ya3ni.. they're not eating ghazz bin 3anoohom (against their own will).. are they??
OK.. i have a question to find out whether this is a sin or not:
Please answer this: -------------------
Let's say you had 50 (FIFTY!! , and I MEAN 50!!!) bowls of mahalabaya in the Fridge. Would you eat all 50??
Now, I LOVE mahalabaya.. right? And i can never get enough of that stuff.. ever.. But I would never eat 50. * Would u share it? * How much would u leave in Fridge?? * Do u like mahalabaya... * Would u give me 10? I mean, let's say we were guests at ur house, and u KNEW that I love mahalabaya, how much would u offer me?? (that's important question, because we need to know whether he/she is eating out of greed, and also whether or not its worth ever meeting them in real life or being even invited to their house for dinner).
We need more input, more information from this user to find out whether its a sin or not, but its making me hungry... Carrefour didnt sell mahalabaya... we ended up buying creme caramel.. its not the same. I miss mahalabaya.
7 Go, eat your bread with joy, And drink your wine with a merry heart; For God has already accepted your works. 8 Let your garments always be white, And let your head lack no oil.
I want to ask is it a sin to eat food if you have not worked for it. Rather because your parents worked for it? if it is I can't eat because I don't work. I am at uni. Should I then eat much less because I never worked for it? also I seek food that I like and it has to be enough for me to think I have had enough food for my body. If lasagne was healthy and I just ate one piece I am not convinced I have eaten enough food to give me strength for my body. But there is no way to measure how much food is necessary for strength for the body, is there? Anyway I eat a lot of kebabs now. Nearly every day. Maybe I should stop. I like it. I never u'sed to eat much when I was younger. I like it and I can stop people saying to me eat.. you never eat.. I like it and I am not satisfied that I ate anything if I do not eat it. When I go to work and my mind tells me go get some food first I know I can't go eat again if I ate a kebab. It is not easy to find healthy food. I do not think I will be satisfied eating fruits. I am not sure it gives enough brain power. Is there any food stores you reccomend. I apologise for sounding annoying.
I don't think mikeforjesus that you have a problem with gluttony. You are earning your food- by studying. It is legitimate. You are working towards being independent, and 'self-sufficient'. Stop worrying brother Mike. All I see right now is you fearing a tyrant god. This is not the God of Christianity. God has accepted your faithfulness to your parents, by being responsible by studying relatively hard to earn your living in the future. So, eat your bread with joy, and drink merely (and not excessively). But from a health perspective, I think you should try to change your eating habits- out of love to yourself, and love to God. If you are going to change by fear with something like eating, you either going to be resentful, or get this guilt complex that is going to push you to eat more! And you don't seem to have an emotional eating complex- nor do I think you are objectifying, or worshiping food- expecting it to solve all your problems (which is the evil or the counterfeit behind gluttony). Unless you are convinced that your eating habits is not good for you then change- but do not do it thinking that this is a war against gluttony. If you are an emotional eater- making good the consoler of your hurt instead of God- than that I think is where you have a battle with gluttony.
I really don't see any problem here. All I can say is that there's a restaurant in the London called "Aroma" - u can eat all u like for around 10 pounds. (without a drink). Its a really good place to go after lent.
Eating itself is not a sin at all .. one should eat to keep living ... But when you eat alot .. here is the problem? .. don't forget that our body is always against our soul .. so if you do mind so much about your body needs so you will not mind about your soul needs ... and don't forget that sins have mothers .. it means that may if you eat too much you will get into some other sins .. so don't open a door may you can't close later ... so get control of your self, and i am afraid to say that if you all the time take care of your body needs .. you will never give the filed to your soul to work ....
In The Name of The Father, The Son, The Holy Spirit, One God, Amen!!!
Hello Friend,
I want you to read this and benefit out of it. May God help us all in His divine mercy and love. Amen!!!
Philoxenus, Ascetic Discourses (1894) pp.337-402. Discourse 10 -- On Gluttony
[p. 353] THE TENTH DISCOURSE: WHICH IS AGAINST THE LUST OF THE BELLY, AND WHICH BRINGETH AN ACCUSATION AGAINST GREEDINESS, AND WHICH REVEALETH AND SHEWETH ALL ITS FORMS, AND WHICH ALSO BLAMETH THOSE WHO MAKE THEIR LIVES SUBJECT UNTO THIS PASSION, AND WHICH MAKETH KNOWN THAT IT IS IMPOSSIBLE FOR THOSE WHO LABOUR IN BONDAGE UNTO THEIR LUSTS TO DRAW NIGH UNTO THE KNOWLEDGE AND WORKING OF ANY OF THE TRIUMPHS OF VIRTUE. Now although all the evil passions and the service of the lusts are abominated and detested by the word of Divine knowledge, the filthy passion of the lust of the belly, which is wont to make those men who are subject thereto like unto beasts, is more abominated and detested than they all, because it taketh away from them the motions of knowledge which are seemly unto rational beings, and it sinketh and darkeneth their mind under the weight of meats; for this stinking and filthy passion is the door of all wickedness, and wherever it hath power, like a great, wide door, is it open for the entrance [p. 354] of all abominable things. It is the destroyer of all excellence, it impedeth all righteousness, and it is the obstacle to all divine works in every shape |338 and form. The man who is bent double beneath this abominable lust is not able to take up the yoke of the discipleship of Christ, because when the belly hath become the mistress of the body, it commandeth and subdueth it unto all its wishes, and instead of the way which ascendeth unto heaven, it sheweth unto him that other path which goeth down into Sheol. And it hangeth upon him the weight of meats, and superfluities of foods, and it soaketh him, and maketh him heavy with the superabundance of drink, for when he carrieth the weight of meats, his lightness is weighed downwards, and when another body of lust is piled upon his own body, he goeth down easily, and descendeth the path the descent of which leadeth down into Sheol. For the passion of the lust of the belly is the filthiest of all the passions, and whosoever hath once become a slave thereunto, and hath borne upon his shoulder its heavy yoke, it never again giveth unto him rest from its service, but by day and by night it worketh in him, and it sendeth him, like a tired servant, whithersoever it pleaseth, not by smooth ways, but by paths which are filled with stumbling blocks, and into a country in which [only] harm can be found; and the lover of lusts hath no eyes to see the light, for although paths exist, yet are they darkened by the weight of meats. Broad daylight is night unto him, and by night a second death sinketh his understanding in the heaviness of sleep. His thoughts are scattered abroad by the wandering of the moisture [p. 355] of the body; the fire of nature is also cold within him because the inordinate moisture in him extinguisheth it; his thoughts are eclipsed from knowledge because the eye of his soul, which should look earnestly after knowledge, is sealed up; and a heavy |339 weight is hung upon him at all times, because he hath joined another body of meats unto his own body like a twin. Now therefore the lust of the belly is an obstacle unto everything; it is the enemy of all contests of fortitude, it is the destroyer of fair renown, and it impedeth all triumphs, not only the triumphs of the spirit, but also those of the body. And, moreover, the lust of the belly is an obstacle also unto those who live in the world by bravery and strength, because manly endurance is of use to every thing which belongeth to name and fame, and health is necessary thereunto, and it hath need of lightness of limb, and of healthy strength; but to all these the lust of greediness is an obstacle. For when the strength diminisheth by reason of the abundance of meats, and the power of the members hath left them, they are no longer ready for work, nor are they active for the labours of righteousness, and, as I have said,----if a man will only look carefully with the eye of knowledge----the weight of meats is an obstacle unto everything, unto the power of the body, and unto the knowledge of the soul, and unto the works of righteousness, and unto the works of loving-kindness, and unto the gifts of alms. Whosoever is subject unto his belly is a beast, and is without discretion, and all his doings are like unto those of the animals, and since his whole stability is moved by carnal passions, [p. 356] he is utterly unprofitable in those of the soul. And thou mayest understand from things themselves that the lust of the belly is an obstacle unto all the virtuous deeds of which I have spoken; to instruction, to knowledge, to the brave endurance of the world, to the labours of righteousness, to loving-kindness unto the children of men, to love, and to the knowledge of |340 God. That it is an obstacle unto instruction the world also testifieth by the tradition which cometh down thereunto, for children who are set apart to receive instruction are kept by their parents from a superfluity of food, because gluttony is a fence against instruction, for when the members bear the weight of food they are not able to carry the lightness of instruction, for lightness is the opposite of heaviness. So then the children who receive instruction take food by measure, that their mind may be [keen], and their thoughts are ready, and their memory clear both to receive and to retain, for superfluity of food preventeth both. And not only are children who are receiving the learning of instruction prevented from taking a superfluity of food, [but other men also who are learning some handicraft of the world, for their masters watch them carefully, and schoolmasters take good heed unto them, and each is a watcher and a guardian against too much food and inordinate drink, for they eat and drink by measure; and thus also is it with those who learn the empty professions of the world, dancers, or charioteers, or athletes; or those who learn the art of war, or others who receive the learning of books. And if these arts which are wrought by the body, and the knowledge which is received from the world need moderation in food----which if it be taken in superabundance becometh an obstacle unto them----how much more doth superfluity of food become an obstacle unto the things which are fulfilled in the spirit?] 1 And so also is it with those who receive [p. 357] instruction, and who exercise themselves in the endurance of the things |341 of the world; and others also who possess the knowledge of the world have themselves need of endurance. There is no man who hath drawn nigh unto learning, or unto the writing of books, or unto oratory, who is not sure that superfluity of food is an obstacle thereunto. For the thick smoke of food, when it increaseth and is not purified away, covereth the heart with gloom, and blackeneth the understanding, and confuseth the intelligence, and shutteth the door in the face of the production of fluency of speech, and it is like a covering spread over all the intellectual senses, and it preventeth and destroyeth the power of their working. The man who is endowed with the gift of speech cannot speak if he be heavy with food, neither can the man of knowledge know, nor the man of understanding understand; and so to say, all the inner man becometh dark through the smoke of the dulness which ariseth from food. And since a light and spiritual nature are mingled in us, the body should seek spirituality and lightness, and in proportion as the body becometh attenuated through abstinence, it gaineth association with the spirituality thereof; and so long as a too great weight [of food] be not laid thereupon, it acquireth the lightness wherewith it participateth in the lightness of the soul. Now therefore by a wise dispensation a portion of the spirit was placed in a portion of the body, [p. 358] and as the body becometh heavy with meats, it draweth and bringeth down the soul thereto, and it hangeth its own weight upon it, and it tieth and fettereth the wings of the thoughts of the soul; but if the life of the body be maintained constantly by a sparing use of food, it becometh light, and purified, and refined, and the heaviness of its nature dwindleth away and it maketh |342 bright the soul which is in it, and maketh it glad, and is, moreover, itself obedient readily unto its will. And because it is light and refined the soul leadeth it to whatsoever it desireth, and the body resisteth not the soul, and its heaviness doth not prevent the soul from stablishing it in the country which it seeketh. For each of these, whether it be the body, or the soul, draweth the other unto its own will, because they are contrary to each other in their natures, and also in their wills, according to the word of the Apostle, who said, "The body lusteth for that which injureth the spirit, and the spirit lusteth for that which injureth the body; and the two are contrary each to each." 2 Now if, according to the word of the wise Apostle, all the lusts of the body are contrary to the soul, the lust of the belly must be more [contrary] than they all, because it is the door of all lusts, and among them all there is none so heavy as it is. For as a weight which is light and volatile by nature, if suspended, inclineth downwards, even so is this lust of the belly, for it is composed of moisture and weight, and although the body naturally possesseth weight----for its nature is so to do----yet by a superabundance of food, other weight is added thereunto, and when weight is added unto weight, [p. 359] and body is doubled upon body, that is to say, the body of food upon the body of nature, the weight upon the soul increaseth, and the mistress becometh a handmaid in subjection; for the soul cannot henceforth rule over the body like a free thing, but it beareth the weight thereof like a slave. And the lust of the belly is also contrary to |343 loving-kindness, because everything which is distributed by the gift thereof it turneth towards itself, and maketh it its own; and if it should happen that it would perform an act of loving-kindness----which is impossible----the thought of benevolence never moveth in it except it be already filled itself, and it is as if the greedy man were to give gifts, for it would appear that his gift is bestowed only when his own belly is full. And this is not loving-kindness, but is like unto the habit of a beast and wild animal, for even the beast, when it hath filled its belly, will leave its manger, and lie down; and thus also is it with the glutton, for until he hath filled his belly at the table of his lusts he will not permit himself to look upon any other man with the eye of compassion. And he will not give to him that is needy of what is set before him, because he is in such subjection unto his lust that he thinketh that no one is as needy as himself, and in very truth there is no one in such need as the man who is in subjection unto his own lust. For however much a man may give unto the cravings of lust, it still abideth in its needy condition, and it is never satisfied even with a collection of meats, but in proportion as it eateth meats it raveneth for others, and in proportion as it drinketh it lusteth eagerly for draughts of clear and sparkling wine. [p. 360] In proportion as it hath food it hungereth and is not satisfied, and in proportion as it drinketh it thirsteth, and its thirst is not quenched; for however much the glutton eateth he still hungereth, and however much he drinketh, he still thirsteth. Unto the lust of the belly there is no end, for when it hath been filled by its first [supply of] food, inasmuch as it is not for its need's sake that it is determined to fill [itself], but for |344 its lust's sake, it seeketh other food which is daintier than the first. And again when it hath taken of this sufficient to please lust, it looketh out for other food which is more agreeable and more tasty, and thus its gluttony rangeth over all meats one by one, and it is not filled by them all. And if he thinketh that he is satisfied, and he stayeth his hand from the food, his lust is not satisfied, even though his belly be filled, and it can hold no more; but he wisheth that his belly were as capacious as his lust, and that his stomach were even as his eye, in order that he might be able to gather together whatsoever he lusted after and to put it in his perforated storehouse. The lover of possessions is a greedy fool, for he gathereth together and layeth up the treasures of his lusts in a house with a rent therein which keepeth nothing that is placed therein, and the Creator also, in order to rebuke the lust of gluttons, made a fixed limit to the capacity of the belly, so that of sheer necessity, even though it were against their will, their lusts might be restrained. Now when the desire would load itself with much [food] although the cavity of the belly cannot receive it, behold desire is not kept back by force from its lust's quest; but though its desire lusteth, the small cavity of the belly, which is not able to hold [much], restraineth it. For if [p. 361] the belly were large enough to receive all things which gluttons lust after, the sea, and land, and air, and sun, and all the other natural bodies would not be sufficient to satisfy their lusts. And behold if, now that a vessel of small capacity hath been given unto their vast desire, sea and land are not sufficient for them, and they gather together all kinds [of food], and are not filled, and |345 everything which they lust after, and are not satisfied, and they ask for and seek after all the meats which are remote from them, if they had a belly as large as their desire what would they not do? Now therefore the glutton is worse than any wild animal, for the beast, when it hath filled its belly, leaveth what remains of its food in the manger, and it knoweth not how to keep it for another time or for another day; but with the glutton it is not so, for, because his lust is not satisfied when his belly is filled, when he hath filled that measure which is in him, and which is ordained by nature to receive food, his lust taketh what remaineth, and keepeth it for another day, that is to say for days and months. The glutton sitteth at the table of his need, and meditateth upon the times which are about to come; he taketh not only care to feed when food is at hand, but he thinketh upon what he shall eat to-morrow. His hand is upon the bread-basket which is near, and his mind is fixed upon the table which is far off; he beareth food in his right hand and in his left, but both of them are insufficient to bring fuel to the fire which is in him. All his members minister unto the cruel mistress which he hath voluntarily set over himself, [p. 362] and they are not by any means whatsoever able to satisfy her by their service; his eyes, and hands, and feet are made slaves unto her, and they suffice not. He thinketh concerning her with his inner man, and with his outer man he followeth her about earnestly; but like a mistress who is to be ministered unto, she is not satisfied; and like Sheol she received stinkingness, and is not filled; and like the fire she receiveth fuel of meats, and she sayeth not, "Enough"; and like the earth she |346 drinketh, and is not satisfied; and like the eye, she lusteth for everything, but is not filled with anything; and the glutton wisheth that he had other members which would be sufficient to minister unto the iniquitous mistress which he hath gotten. The gaze of the eye of the glutton is also fixed upon him that sitteth with him at the table, and he looketh upon him with a malignant eye lest he eat too much, and forthwith he either counteth his pieces of food in his mind, or [feareth] that peradventure the portion which is set before him is greater than his own; for his belly receiveth meats, but his mind meditateth upon his neighbour which sitteth with him. Now the evilness of the lust of the belly is spread out upon everything, and if its eye be evil upon him that is near him, how can it help being evil upon him that is his companion at table? What then? Though lust lay up [food] for days and months, yet is it envious of others who are remote there from; and it asketh about every man what food he eateth, and what preparations of food are made and set out on his table, and what is the measure of his food; and when it hath made enquiries, and hath measured its own dainties and delicacies with that which it heareth concerning his, if its things are more [p. 363] than his it rejoiceth, and if his are more than its own, it is immediately filled with grief, and with the grief there is also envy, and with the envy there is wrath of mind because a man existeth who hath more meats than he hath. What then? And although the greedy glutton is envious of those who are afar off, his eye looketh not away from him that is at the table with him, and although he may not say openly unto him, "Thou shalt not eat" ----now shame preventeth him from saying this----yet |347 his mind desireth this eagerly, saying, "How I wi
[quote author=binC link=topic=6387.msg94015#msg94015 date=1219911745] In The Name of The Father, The Son, The Holy Spirit, One God, Amen!!!
Hello Friend,
I want you to read this and benefit out of it. May God help us all in His divine mercy and love. Amen!!!
Philoxenus, Ascetic Discourses (1894) pp.337-402. Discourse 10 -- On Gluttony
[p. 353] THE TENTH DISCOURSE: WHICH IS AGAINST THE LUST OF THE BELLY, AND WHICH BRINGETH AN ACCUSATION AGAINST GREEDINESS, AND WHICH REVEALETH AND SHEWETH ALL ITS FORMS, AND WHICH ALSO BLAMETH THOSE WHO MAKE THEIR LIVES SUBJECT UNTO THIS PASSION, AND WHICH MAKETH KNOWN THAT IT IS IMPOSSIBLE FOR THOSE WHO LABOUR IN BONDAGE UNTO THEIR LUSTS TO DRAW NIGH UNTO THE KNOWLEDGE AND WORKING OF ANY OF THE TRIUMPHS OF VIRTUE. Now although all the evil passions and the service of the lusts are abominated and detested by the word of Divine knowledge, the filthy passion of the lust of the belly, which is wont to make those men who are subject thereto like unto beasts, is more abominated and detested than they all, because it taketh away from them the motions of knowledge which are seemly unto rational beings, and it sinketh and darkeneth their mind under the weight of meats; for this stinking and filthy passion is the door of all wickedness, and wherever it hath power, like a great, wide door, is it open for the entrance [p. 354] of all abominable things. It is the destroyer of all excellence, it impedeth all righteousness, and it is the obstacle to all divine works in every shape |338 and form. The man who is bent double beneath this abominable lust is not able to take up the yoke of the discipleship of Christ, because when the belly hath become the mistress of the body, it commandeth and subdueth it unto all its wishes, and instead of the way which ascendeth unto heaven, it sheweth unto him that other path which goeth down into Sheol. And it hangeth upon him the weight of meats, and superfluities of foods, and it soaketh him, and maketh him heavy with the superabundance of drink, for when he carrieth the weight of meats, his lightness is weighed downwards, and when another body of lust is piled upon his own body, he goeth down easily, and descendeth the path the descent of which leadeth down into Sheol. For the passion of the lust of the belly is the filthiest of all the passions, and whosoever hath once become a slave thereunto, and hath borne upon his shoulder its heavy yoke, it never again giveth unto him rest from its service, but by day and by night it worketh in him, and it sendeth him, like a tired servant, whithersoever it pleaseth, not by smooth ways, but by paths which are filled with stumbling blocks, and into a country in which [only] harm can be found; and the lover of lusts hath no eyes to see the light, for although paths exist, yet are they darkened by the weight of meats. Broad daylight is night unto him, and by night a second death sinketh his understanding in the heaviness of sleep. His thoughts are scattered abroad by the wandering of the moisture [p. 355] of the body; the fire of nature is also cold within him because the inordinate moisture in him extinguisheth it; his thoughts are eclipsed from knowledge because the eye of his soul, which should look earnestly after knowledge, is sealed up; and a heavy |339 weight is hung upon him at all times, because he hath joined another body of meats unto his own body like a twin. Now therefore the lust of the belly is an obstacle unto everything; it is the enemy of all contests of fortitude, it is the destroyer of fair renown, and it impedeth all triumphs, not only the triumphs of the spirit, but also those of the body. And, moreover, the lust of the belly is an obstacle also unto those who live in the world by bravery and strength, because manly endurance is of use to every thing which belongeth to name and fame, and health is necessary thereunto, and it hath need of lightness of limb, and of healthy strength; but to all these the lust of greediness is an obstacle. For when the strength diminisheth by reason of the abundance of meats, and the power of the members hath left them, they are no longer ready for work, nor are they active for the labours of righteousness, and, as I have said,----if a man will only look carefully with the eye of knowledge----the weight of meats is an obstacle unto everything, unto the power of the body, and unto the knowledge of the soul, and unto the works of righteousness, and unto the works of loving-kindness, and unto the gifts of alms. Whosoever is subject unto his belly is a beast, and is without discretion, and all his doings are like unto those of the animals, and since his whole stability is moved by carnal passions, [p. 356] he is utterly unprofitable in those of the soul. And thou mayest understand from things themselves that the lust of the belly is an obstacle unto all the virtuous deeds of which I have spoken; to instruction, to knowledge, to the brave endurance of the world, to the labours of righteousness, to loving-kindness unto the children of men, to love, and to the knowledge of |340 God. That it is an obstacle unto instruction the world also testifieth by the tradition which cometh down thereunto, for children who are set apart to receive instruction are kept by their parents from a superfluity of food, because gluttony is a fence against instruction, for when the members bear the weight of food they are not able to carry the lightness of instruction, for lightness is the opposite of heaviness. So then the children who receive instruction take food by measure, that their mind may be [keen], and their thoughts are ready, and their memory clear both to receive and to retain, for superfluity of food preventeth both. And not only are children who are receiving the learning of instruction prevented from taking a superfluity of food, [but other men also who are learning some handicraft of the world, for their masters watch them carefully, and schoolmasters take good heed unto them, and each is a watcher and a guardian against too much food and inordinate drink, for they eat and drink by measure; and thus also is it with those who learn the empty professions of the world, dancers, or charioteers, or athletes; or those who learn the art of war, or others who receive the learning of books. And if these arts which are wrought by the body, and the knowledge which is received from the world need moderation in food----which if it be taken in superabundance becometh an obstacle unto them----how much more doth superfluity of food become an obstacle unto the things which are fulfilled in the spirit?] 1 And so also is it with those who receive [p. 357] instruction, and who exercise themselves in the endurance of the things |341 of the world; and others also who possess the knowledge of the world have themselves need of endurance. There is no man who hath drawn nigh unto learning, or unto the writing of books, or unto oratory, who is not sure that superfluity of food is an obstacle thereunto. For the thick smoke of food, when it increaseth and is not purified away, covereth the heart with gloom, and blackeneth the understanding, and confuseth the intelligence, and shutteth the door in the face of the production of fluency of speech, and it is like a covering spread over all the intellectual senses, and it preventeth and destroyeth the power of their working. The man who is endowed with the gift of speech cannot speak if he be heavy with food, neither can the man of knowledge know, nor the man of understanding understand; and so to say, all the inner man becometh dark through the smoke of the dulness which ariseth from food. And since a light and spiritual nature are mingled in us, the body should seek spirituality and lightness, and in proportion as the body becometh attenuated through abstinence, it gaineth association with the spirituality thereof; and so long as a too great weight [of food] be not laid thereupon, it acquireth the lightness wherewith it participateth in the lightness of the soul. Now therefore by a wise dispensation a portion of the spirit was placed in a portion of the body, [p. 358] and as the body becometh heavy with meats, it draweth and bringeth down the soul thereto, and it hangeth its own weight upon it, and it tieth and fettereth the wings of the thoughts of the soul; but if the life of the body be maintained constantly by a sparing use of food, it becometh light, and purified, and refined, and the heaviness of its nature dwindleth away and it maketh |342 bright the soul which is in it, and maketh it glad, and is, moreover, itself obedient readily unto its will. And because it is light and refined the soul leadeth it to whatsoever it desireth, and the body resisteth not the soul, and its heaviness doth not prevent the soul from stablishing it in the country which it seeketh. For each of these, whether it be the body, or the soul, draweth the other unto its own will, because they are contrary to each other in their natures, and also in their wills, according to the word of the Apostle, who said, "The body lusteth for that which injureth the spirit, and the spirit lusteth for that which injureth the body; and the two are contrary each to each." 2 Now if, according to the word of the wise Apostle, all the lusts of the body are contrary to the soul, the lust of the belly must be more [contrary] than they all, because it is the door of all lusts, and among them all there is none so heavy as it is. For as a weight which is light and volatile by nature, if suspended, inclineth downwards, even so is this lust of the belly, for it is composed of moisture and weight, and although the body naturally possesseth weight----for its nature is so to do----yet by a superabundance of food, other weight is added thereunto, and when weight is added unto weight, [p. 359] and body is doubled upon body, that is to say, the body of food upon the body of nature, the weight upon the soul increaseth, and the mistress becometh a handmaid in subjection; for the soul cannot henceforth rule over the body like a free thing, but it beareth the weight thereof like a slave. And the lust of the belly is also contrary to |343 loving-kindness, because everything which is distributed by the gift thereof it turneth towards itself, and maketh it its own; and if it should happen that it would perform an act of loving-kindness----which is impossible----the thought of benevolence never moveth in it except it be already filled itself, and it is as if the greedy man were to give gifts, for it would appear that his gift is bestowed only when his own belly is full. And this is not loving-kindness, but is like unto the habit of a beast and wild animal, for even the beast, when it hath filled its belly, will leave its manger, and lie down; and thus also is it with the glutton, for until he hath filled his belly at the table of his lusts he will not permit himself to look upon any other man with the eye of compassion. And he will not give to him that is needy of what is set before him, because he is in such subjection unto his lust that he thinketh that no one is as needy as himself, and in very truth there is no one in such need as the man who is in subjection unto his own lust. For however much a man may give unto the cravings of lust, it still abideth in its needy condition, and it is never satisfied even with a collection of meats, but in proportion as it eateth meats it raveneth for others, and in proportion as it drinketh it lusteth eagerly for draughts of clear and sparkling wine. [p. 360] In proportion as it hath food it hungereth and is not satisfied, and in proportion as it drinketh it thirsteth, and its thirst is not quenched; for however much the glutton eateth he still hungereth, and however much he drinketh, he still thirsteth. Unto the lust of the belly there is no end, for when it hath been filled by its first [supply of] food, inasmuch as it is not for its need's sake that it is determined to fill [itself], but for |344 its lust's sake, it seeketh other food which is daintier than the first. And again when it hath taken of this sufficient to please lust, it looketh out for other food which is more agreeable and more tasty, and thus its gluttony rangeth over all meats one by one, and it is not filled by them all. And if he thinketh that he is satisfied, and he stayeth his hand from the food, his lust is not satisfied, even though his belly be filled, and it can hold no more; but he wisheth that his belly were as capacious as his lust, and that his stomach were even as his eye, in order that he might be able to gather together whatsoever he lusted after and to put it in his perforated storehouse. The lover of possessions is a greedy fool, for he gathereth together and layeth up the treasures of his lusts in a house with a rent therein which keepeth nothing that is placed therein, and the Creator also, in order to rebuke the lust of gluttons, made a fixed limit to the capacity of the belly, so that of sheer necessity, even though it were against their will, their lusts might be restrained. Now when the desire would load itself with much [food] although the cavity of the belly cannot receive it, behold desire is not kept back by force from its lust's quest; but though its desire lusteth, the small cavity of the belly, which is not able to hold [much], restraineth it. For if [p. 361] the belly were large enough to receive all things which gluttons lust after, the sea, and land, and air, and sun, and all the other natural bodies would not be sufficient to satisfy their lusts. And behold if, now that a vessel of small capacity hath been given unto their vast desire, sea and land are not sufficient for them, and they gather together all kinds [of food], and are not filled, and |345 everything which they lust after, and are not satisfied, and they ask for and seek after all the meats which are remote from them, if they had a belly as large as their desire what would they not do? Now therefore the glutton is worse than any wild animal, for the beast, when it hath filled its belly, leaveth what remains of its food in the manger, and it knoweth not how to keep it for another time or for another day; but with the glutton it is not so, for, because his lust is not satisfied when his belly is filled, when he hath filled that measure which is in him, and which is ordained by nature to receive food, his lust taketh what remaineth, and keepeth it for another day, that is to say for days and months. The glutton sitteth at the table of his need, and meditateth upon the times which are about to come; he taketh not only care to feed when food is at hand, but he thinketh upon what he shall eat to-morrow. His hand is upon the bread-basket which is near, and his mind is fixed upon the table which is far off; he beareth food in his right hand and in his left, but both of them are insufficient to bring fuel to the fire which is in him. All his members minister unto the cruel mistress which he hath voluntarily set over himself, [p. 362] and they are not by any means whatsoever able to satisfy her by their service; his eyes, and hands, and feet are made slaves unto her, and they suffice not. He thinketh concerning her with his inner man, and with his outer man he followeth her about earnestly; but like a mistress who is to be ministered unto, she is not satisfied; and like Sheol she received stinkingness, and is not filled; and like the fire she receiveth fuel of meats, and she sayeth not, "Enough"; and like the earth she |346 drinketh, and is not satisfied; and like the eye, she lusteth for everything, but is not filled with anything; and the glutton wisheth that he had other members which would be sufficient to minister unto the iniquitous mistress which he hath gotten. The gaze of the eye of the glutton is also fixed upon him that sitteth with him at the table, and he looketh upon him with a malignant eye lest he eat too much, and forthwith he either counteth his pieces of food in his mind, or [feareth] that peradventure the portion which is set before him is greater than his own; for his belly receiveth meats, but his mind meditateth upon his neighbour which sitteth with him. Now the evilness of the lust of the belly is spread out upon everything, and if its eye be evil upon him that is near him, how can it help being evil upon him that is his companion at table? What then? Though lust lay up [food] for days and months, yet is it envious of others who are remote there from; and it asketh about every man what food he eateth, and what preparations of food are made and set out on his table, and what is the measure of his food; and when it hath made enquiries, and hath measured its own dainties and delicacies with that which it heareth concerning his, if its things are more [p. 363] than his it rejoiceth, and if his are more than its own, it is immediately filled with grief, and with the grief there is also envy, and with the envy there is wrath of mind because a man existeth who hath more meats than he hath. What then? And although the greedy glutton is envious of those who are afar off, his eye looketh not away from him that is at the table with him, and although he may not say openly unto him, "Thou shalt not eat" ----now shame preventeth him from saying this----yet |347 his mind desireth this eagerly, saying, "How I wi
Thanks BinC for taking the time to explain to us the spirituality of eating too much. Just to paraphrase, are you saying that food is OK so long as its delicious and that you share it??
Comments
Are u being serious or joking?
Did u not know!?
The pope's father of confession was called Fr. Mikhail Ibrahim. He used to tell his children to do prostrations (Maetonia's) JUST to help them burn calories to avoid keeping the mind idle, which gives a chance for the devil to attack u.
Why did u think I was joking for?? Its VERY serious in fact.
Especially in your youth, keep your mind busy with sport, exercise, matonia's , prayer... once your mind is idle, the devil will attack u.
im not sayin that on Easter, that u shouldnt eat 10 pounds of meat, everyone does lol.
LOL not everyone ...
[quote author=He Wept link=topic=6387.msg86950#msg86950 date=1210211977]
im not sayin that on Easter, that u shouldnt eat 10 pounds of meat, everyone does lol.
LOL not everyone ...
yeah..for example me..i only eat 9.8 pounds of meat. see? ;D
[move]guys the only reason its a sin if ur eating when u r not hungry is beacause u r hurting ur body which is a sin :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D[/move]
i really disagree with that, as someone also is hurting their body much more if they don't eat when they are hungry. The hurt is much more serious (even).
I think any extreme is wrong: whether eating too much, or too little.
This topic is not about eating too much. Its about eating as a hobby. Someone loves the taste of food, and eats a lot because he/she loves the taste of it.
I'm just so sorry this person has this hobby and is not living in France where the food tastes much better than in the USA/UK and the rest of Europe.
That's why I asked him/her IF she/he had a problem fasting. If they cannot control themselves to the point where they desire eating other people's food, or where they cannot fast before Communion, then yes, they have a problem.
God made food taste good to help us eat it. If someone appreciates food that much, and they thank God so much for creating food that tastes that good, all the more better. I admit, some people are talented in appreciating food. For me, it all tastes good so long as its not British food or Chinese.
I really recommend that you see the movie Ratatouille to understand more about this issue. lol
For someone living in France, I can tell you, food is taken very seriously. You cannot mix certain things together and eat it, and call yourself French (lol). Their appreciation for taste of food is much more advanced than americans and the british (and most definately Egyptians).
why r u calling it a hobby ^ ???
Hello there!
I've been thinking about this problem for ages. Sometimes I can't sleep just thinking about it. Whenever I'm in the shower, i'm thinking about it, and its distracting me from singing.
How can this be a sin? I'm saying its a sin if she/he is eating a lot because they cannot control themselves. But, if they have a gift for taste. If they LOVE the taste of food, then it seems like a hobby, or a past-time.
If they cannot fast during lent unless they eat, and their eating is to satisfy their desire for the love of food, then its a problem. But if they are eating because they love food,yet they can easily control themselves sufficiently to fast during lent (and for mass, and for all other Orthodox fasting), then great.
[quote author=He Wept link=topic=6387.msg86950#msg86950 date=1210211977]
we shouldnt be worries about what we eat on Earth, we should just eat to live not for pleasure, im not sayin that on Easter, that u shouldnt eat 10 pounds of meat, everyone does lol. but eating may bring you away form God whether u know it or not, u could be eating all day, forgeting God, and may not even thank God for the food.
What's in the heart?? I mean, God looks at the heart. We all eat.. and God made the food taste nice to encourage us to eat. But, why do u feel its a sin. Are u eating someone else's food?? Do u desire someone else's food?? Do u desire my Peche Melba??
well that makes sense, but the rest you said confused me lol, not in a bad way though...
[quote author=mnc_hnn link=topic=6387.msg87206#msg87206 date=1210539854]
lol i dont mean i would call it a sin..but i wouldnt call it a hobby either..u know what i mean?? and please do not let the problem distract you from singing in the shower ;D
and i would say everyone sings in the shwoer, but i may be corrected once again :)
[quote author=QT_PA_2T link=topic=6387.msg86968#msg86968 date=1210238576]
[quote author=He Wept link=topic=6387.msg86950#msg86950 date=1210211977]
we shouldnt be worries about what we eat on Earth, we should just eat to live not for pleasure, im not sayin that on Easter, that u shouldnt eat 10 pounds of meat, everyone does lol. but eating may bring you away form God whether u know it or not, u could be eating all day, forgeting God, and may not even thank God for the food.
What's in the heart?? I mean, God looks at the heart. We all eat.. and God made the food taste nice to encourage us to eat. But, why do u feel its a sin. Are u eating someone else's food?? Do u desire someone else's food?? Do u desire my Peche Melba??
well that makes sense, but the rest you said confused me lol, not in a bad way though...
[quote author=mnc_hnn link=topic=6387.msg87206#msg87206 date=1210539854]
lol i dont mean i would call it a sin..but i wouldnt call it a hobby either..u know what i mean?? and please do not let the problem distract you from singing in the shower ;D
and i would say everyone sings in the shwoer, but i may be corrected once again :)
i do sometimes..depends on the mood...lol...u r really funny
God Bless and Pray 4 me
Copticdeacon
I mean, this person is eating a lot of food because they like the taste of food. Well.... that's normal.
I for example, hate the taste of marmite. If i keep on eating marmite when I know I hate the taste of it, then that's just sa3eedi.. its not even a sin.. its just plain stupid.
So, this person is smart. They're enjoying what they eat. I mean, ya3ni.. they're not eating ghazz bin 3anoohom (against their own will).. are they??
OK.. i have a question to find out whether this is a sin or not:
Please answer this:
-------------------
Let's say you had 50 (FIFTY!! , and I MEAN 50!!!) bowls of mahalabaya in the Fridge. Would you eat all 50??
Now, I LOVE mahalabaya.. right? And i can never get enough of that stuff.. ever.. But I would never eat 50.
* Would u share it?
* How much would u leave in Fridge??
* Do u like mahalabaya...
* Would u give me 10? I mean, let's say we were guests at ur house, and u KNEW that I love mahalabaya, how much would u offer me?? (that's important question, because we need to know whether he/she is eating out of greed, and also whether or not its worth ever meeting them in real life or being even invited to their house for dinner).
We need more input, more information from this user to find out whether its a sin or not, but its making me hungry...
Carrefour didnt sell mahalabaya... we ended up buying creme caramel.. its not the same. I miss mahalabaya.
Does someone want to explain these verses?
Ecclesiastes 9 (New King James Version)
7 Go, eat your bread with joy,
And drink your wine with a merry heart;
For God has already accepted your works.
8 Let your garments always be white,
And let your head lack no oil.
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=ecclesiastes 9&version=50
I want to ask is it a sin to eat food if you have not worked for it. Rather because your parents worked for it? if it is I can't eat because I don't work. I am at uni. Should I then eat much less because I never worked for it? also I seek food that I like and it has to be enough for me to think I have had enough food for my body. If lasagne was healthy and I just ate one piece I am not convinced I have eaten enough food to give me strength for my body. But there is no way to measure how much food is necessary for strength for the body, is there? Anyway I eat a lot of kebabs now. Nearly every day. Maybe I should stop. I like it. I never u'sed to eat much when I was younger. I like it and I can stop people saying to me eat.. you never eat.. I like it and I am not satisfied that I ate anything if I do not eat it. When I go to work and my mind tells me go get some food first I know I can't go eat again if I ate a kebab. It is not easy to find healthy food. I do not think I will be satisfied eating fruits. I am not sure it gives enough brain power. Is there any food stores you reccomend. I apologise for sounding annoying.
I don't think mikeforjesus that you have a problem with gluttony. You are earning your food- by studying. It is legitimate. You are working towards being independent, and 'self-sufficient'. Stop worrying brother Mike. All I see right now is you fearing a tyrant god. This is not the God of Christianity. God has accepted your faithfulness to your parents, by being responsible by studying relatively hard to earn your living in the future. So, eat your bread with joy, and drink merely (and not excessively). But from a health perspective, I think you should try to change your eating habits- out of love to yourself, and love to God. If you are going to change by fear with something like eating, you either going to be resentful, or get this guilt complex that is going to push you to eat more! And you don't seem to have an emotional eating complex- nor do I think you are objectifying, or worshiping food- expecting it to solve all your problems (which is the evil or the counterfeit behind gluttony). Unless you are convinced that your eating habits is not good for you then change- but do not do it thinking that this is a war against gluttony. If you are an emotional eater- making good the consoler of your hurt instead of God- than that I think is where you have a battle with gluttony.
Pray for me
Thanks ..
Shady
Hello Friend,
I want you to read this and benefit out of it. May God help us all in His divine mercy and love. Amen!!!
Philoxenus, Ascetic Discourses (1894) pp.337-402.
Discourse 10 -- On Gluttony
[p. 353] THE TENTH DISCOURSE: WHICH IS AGAINST THE LUST OF THE BELLY, AND WHICH BRINGETH AN ACCUSATION AGAINST GREEDINESS, AND WHICH REVEALETH AND SHEWETH ALL ITS FORMS, AND WHICH ALSO BLAMETH THOSE WHO MAKE THEIR LIVES SUBJECT UNTO THIS PASSION, AND WHICH MAKETH KNOWN THAT IT IS IMPOSSIBLE FOR THOSE WHO LABOUR IN BONDAGE UNTO THEIR LUSTS TO DRAW NIGH UNTO THE KNOWLEDGE AND WORKING OF ANY OF THE TRIUMPHS OF VIRTUE.
Now although all the evil passions and the service of the lusts are abominated and detested by the word of Divine knowledge, the filthy passion of the lust of the belly, which is wont to make those men who are subject thereto like unto beasts, is more abominated and detested than they all, because it taketh away from them the motions of knowledge which are seemly unto rational beings, and it sinketh and darkeneth their mind under the weight of meats; for this stinking and filthy passion is the door of all wickedness, and wherever it hath power, like a great, wide door, is it open for the entrance [p. 354] of all abominable things.
It is the destroyer of all excellence, it impedeth all righteousness, and it is the obstacle to all divine works in every shape |338 and form. The man who is bent double beneath this abominable lust is not able to take up the yoke of the discipleship of Christ, because when the belly hath become the mistress of the body, it commandeth and subdueth it unto all its wishes, and instead of the way which ascendeth unto heaven, it sheweth unto him that other path which goeth down into Sheol. And it hangeth upon him the weight of meats, and superfluities of foods, and it soaketh him, and maketh him heavy with the superabundance of drink, for when he carrieth the weight of meats, his lightness is weighed downwards, and when another body of lust is piled upon his own body, he goeth down easily, and descendeth the path the descent of which leadeth down into Sheol.
For the passion of the lust of the belly is the filthiest of all the passions, and whosoever hath once become a slave thereunto, and hath borne upon his shoulder its heavy yoke, it never again giveth unto him rest from its service, but by day and by night it worketh in him, and it sendeth him, like a tired servant, whithersoever it pleaseth, not by smooth ways, but by paths which are filled with stumbling blocks, and into a country in which [only] harm can be found; and the lover of lusts hath no eyes to see the light, for although paths exist, yet are they darkened by the weight of meats. Broad daylight is night unto him, and by night a second death sinketh his understanding in the heaviness of sleep.
His thoughts are scattered abroad by the wandering of the moisture [p. 355] of the body; the fire of nature is also cold within him because the inordinate moisture in him extinguisheth it; his thoughts are eclipsed from knowledge because the eye of his soul, which should look earnestly after knowledge, is sealed up; and a heavy |339 weight is hung upon him at all times, because he hath joined another body of meats unto his own body like a twin.
Now therefore the lust of the belly is an obstacle unto everything; it is the enemy of all contests of fortitude, it is the destroyer of fair renown, and it impedeth all triumphs, not only the triumphs of the spirit, but also those of the body. And, moreover, the lust of the belly is an obstacle also unto those who live in the world by bravery and strength, because manly endurance is of use to every thing which belongeth to name and fame, and health is necessary thereunto, and it hath need of lightness of limb, and of healthy strength; but to all these the lust of greediness is an obstacle.
For when the strength diminisheth by reason of the abundance of meats, and the power of the members hath left them, they are no longer ready for work, nor are they active for the labours of righteousness, and, as I have said,----if a man will only look carefully with the eye of knowledge----the weight of meats is an obstacle unto everything, unto the power of the body, and unto the knowledge of the soul, and unto the works of righteousness, and unto the works of loving-kindness, and unto the gifts of alms.
Whosoever is subject unto his belly is a beast, and is without discretion, and all his doings are like unto those of the animals, and since his whole stability is moved by carnal passions, [p. 356] he is utterly unprofitable in those of the soul. And thou mayest understand from things themselves that the lust of the belly is an obstacle unto all the virtuous deeds of which I have spoken; to instruction, to knowledge, to the brave endurance of the world, to the labours of righteousness, to loving-kindness unto the children of men, to love, and to the knowledge of |340 God.
That it is an obstacle unto instruction the world also testifieth by the tradition which cometh down thereunto, for children who are set apart to receive instruction are kept by their parents from a superfluity of food, because gluttony is a fence against instruction, for when the members bear the weight of food they are not able to carry the lightness of instruction, for lightness is the opposite of heaviness. So then the children who receive instruction take food by measure, that their mind may be [keen], and their thoughts are ready, and their memory clear both to receive and to retain, for superfluity of food preventeth both. And not only are children who are receiving the learning of instruction prevented from taking a superfluity of food, [but other men also who are learning some handicraft of the world, for their masters watch them carefully, and schoolmasters take good heed unto them, and each is a watcher and a guardian against too much food and inordinate drink, for they eat and drink by measure; and thus also is it with those who learn the empty professions of the world, dancers, or charioteers, or athletes; or those who learn the art of war, or others who receive the learning of books.
And if these arts which are wrought by the body, and the knowledge which is received from the world need moderation in food----which if it be taken in superabundance becometh an obstacle unto them----how much more doth superfluity of food become an obstacle unto the things which are fulfilled in the spirit?] 1 And so also is it with those who receive [p. 357] instruction, and who exercise themselves in the endurance of the things |341 of the world; and others also who possess the knowledge of the world have themselves need of endurance.
There is no man who hath drawn nigh unto learning, or unto the writing of books, or unto oratory, who is not sure that superfluity of food is an obstacle thereunto. For the thick smoke of food, when it increaseth and is not purified away, covereth the heart with gloom, and blackeneth the understanding, and confuseth the intelligence, and shutteth the door in the face of the production of fluency of speech, and it is like a covering spread over all the intellectual senses, and it preventeth and destroyeth the power of their working.
The man who is endowed with the gift of speech cannot speak if he be heavy with food, neither can the man of knowledge know, nor the man of understanding understand; and so to say, all the inner man becometh dark through the smoke of the dulness which ariseth from food.
And since a light and spiritual nature are mingled in us, the body should seek spirituality and lightness, and in proportion as the body becometh attenuated through abstinence, it gaineth association with the spirituality thereof; and so long as a too great weight [of food] be not laid thereupon, it acquireth the lightness wherewith it participateth in the lightness of the soul.
Now therefore by a wise dispensation a portion of the spirit was placed in a portion of the body, [p. 358] and as the body becometh heavy with meats, it draweth and bringeth down the soul thereto, and it hangeth its own weight upon it, and it tieth and fettereth the wings of the thoughts of the soul; but if the life of the body be maintained constantly by a sparing use of food, it becometh light, and purified, and refined, and the heaviness of its nature dwindleth away and it maketh |342 bright the soul which is in it, and maketh it glad, and is, moreover, itself obedient readily unto its will.
And because it is light and refined the soul leadeth it to whatsoever it desireth, and the body resisteth not the soul, and its heaviness doth not prevent the soul from stablishing it in the country which it seeketh.
For each of these, whether it be the body, or the soul, draweth the other unto its own will, because they are contrary to each other in their natures, and also in their wills, according to the word of the Apostle, who said, "The body lusteth for that which injureth the spirit, and the spirit lusteth for that which injureth the body; and the two are contrary each to each." 2
Now if, according to the word of the wise Apostle, all the lusts of the body are contrary to the soul, the lust of the belly must be more [contrary] than they all, because it is the door of all lusts, and among them all there is none so heavy as it is.
For as a weight which is light and volatile by nature, if suspended, inclineth downwards, even so is this lust of the belly, for it is composed of moisture and weight, and although the body naturally possesseth weight----for its nature is so to do----yet by a superabundance of food, other weight is added thereunto, and when weight is added unto weight, [p. 359] and body is doubled upon body, that is to say, the body of food upon the body of nature, the weight upon the soul increaseth, and the mistress becometh a handmaid in subjection; for the soul cannot henceforth rule over the body like a free thing, but it beareth the weight thereof like a slave.
And the lust of the belly is also contrary to |343 loving-kindness, because everything which is distributed by the gift thereof it turneth towards itself, and maketh it its own; and if it should happen that it would perform an act of loving-kindness----which is impossible----the thought of benevolence never moveth in it except it be already filled itself, and it is as if the greedy man were to give gifts, for it would appear that his gift is bestowed only when his own belly is full.
And this is not loving-kindness, but is like unto the habit of a beast and wild animal, for even the beast, when it hath filled its belly, will leave its manger, and lie down; and thus also is it with the glutton, for until he hath filled his belly at the table of his lusts he will not permit himself to look upon any other man with the eye of compassion. And he will not give to him that is needy of what is set before him, because he is in such subjection unto his lust that he thinketh that no one is as needy as himself, and in very truth there is no one in such need as the man who is in subjection unto his own lust.
For however much a man may give unto the cravings of lust, it still abideth in its needy condition, and it is never satisfied even with a collection of meats, but in proportion as it eateth meats it raveneth for others, and in proportion as it drinketh it lusteth eagerly for draughts of clear and sparkling wine. [p. 360]
In proportion as it hath food it hungereth and is not satisfied, and in proportion as it drinketh it thirsteth, and its thirst is not quenched; for however much the glutton eateth he still hungereth, and however much he drinketh, he still thirsteth.
Unto the lust of the belly there is no end, for when it hath been filled by its first [supply of] food, inasmuch as it is not for its need's sake that it is determined to fill [itself], but for |344 its lust's sake, it seeketh other food which is daintier than the first.
And again when it hath taken of this sufficient to please lust, it looketh out for other food which is more agreeable and more tasty, and thus its gluttony rangeth over all meats one by one, and it is not filled by them all.
And if he thinketh that he is satisfied, and he stayeth his hand from the food, his lust is not satisfied, even though his belly be filled, and it can hold no more; but he wisheth that his belly were as capacious as his lust, and that his stomach were even as his eye, in order that he might be able to gather together whatsoever he lusted after and to put it in his perforated storehouse.
The lover of possessions is a greedy fool, for he gathereth together and layeth up the treasures of his lusts in a house with a rent therein which keepeth nothing that is placed therein, and the Creator also, in order to rebuke the lust of gluttons, made a fixed limit to the capacity of the belly, so that of sheer necessity, even though it were against their will, their lusts might be restrained.
Now when the desire would load itself with much [food] although the cavity of the belly cannot receive it, behold desire is not kept back by force from its lust's quest; but though its desire lusteth, the small cavity of the belly, which is not able to hold [much], restraineth it.
For if [p. 361] the belly were large enough to receive all things which gluttons lust after, the sea, and land, and air, and sun, and all the other natural bodies would not be sufficient to satisfy their lusts.
And behold if, now that a vessel of small capacity hath been given unto their vast desire, sea and land are not sufficient for them, and they gather together all kinds [of food], and are not filled, and |345 everything which they lust after, and are not satisfied, and they ask for and seek after all the meats which are remote from them, if they had a belly as large as their desire what would they not do?
Now therefore the glutton is worse than any wild animal, for the beast, when it hath filled its belly, leaveth what remains of its food in the manger, and it knoweth not how to keep it for another time or for another day; but with the glutton it is not so, for, because his lust is not satisfied when his belly is filled, when he hath filled that measure which is in him, and which is ordained by nature to receive food, his lust taketh what remaineth, and keepeth it for another day, that is to say for days and months.
The glutton sitteth at the table of his need, and meditateth upon the times which are about to come; he taketh not only care to feed when food is at hand, but he thinketh upon what he shall eat to-morrow. His hand is upon the bread-basket which is near, and his mind is fixed upon the table which is far off; he beareth food in his right hand and in his left, but both of them are insufficient to bring fuel to the fire which is in him.
All his members minister unto the cruel mistress which he hath voluntarily set over himself, [p. 362] and they are not by any means whatsoever able to satisfy her by their service; his eyes, and hands, and feet are made slaves unto her, and they suffice not. He thinketh concerning her with his inner man, and with his outer man he followeth her about earnestly; but like a mistress who is to be ministered unto, she is not satisfied; and like Sheol she received stinkingness, and is not filled; and like the fire she receiveth fuel of meats, and she sayeth not, "Enough"; and like the earth she |346 drinketh, and is not satisfied; and like the eye, she lusteth for everything, but is not filled with anything; and the glutton wisheth that he had other members which would be sufficient to minister unto the iniquitous mistress which he hath gotten.
The gaze of the eye of the glutton is also fixed upon him that sitteth with him at the table, and he looketh upon him with a malignant eye lest he eat too much, and forthwith he either counteth his pieces of food in his mind, or [feareth] that peradventure the portion which is set before him is greater than his own; for his belly receiveth meats, but his mind meditateth upon his neighbour which sitteth with him.
Now the evilness of the lust of the belly is spread out upon everything, and if its eye be evil upon him that is near him, how can it help being evil upon him that is his companion at table? What then? Though lust lay up [food] for days and months, yet is it envious of others who are remote there from; and it asketh about every man what food he eateth, and what preparations of food are made and set out on his table, and what is the measure of his food; and when it hath made enquiries, and hath measured its own dainties and delicacies with that which it heareth concerning his, if its things are more [p. 363] than his it rejoiceth, and if his are more than its own, it is immediately filled with grief, and with the grief there is also envy, and with the envy there is wrath of mind because a man existeth who hath more meats than he hath.
What then? And although the greedy glutton is envious of those who are afar off, his eye looketh not away from him that is at the table with him, and although he may not say openly unto him, "Thou shalt not eat" ----now shame preventeth him from saying this----yet |347 his mind desireth this eagerly, saying, "How I wi
In The Name of The Father, The Son, The Holy Spirit, One God, Amen!!!
Hello Friend,
I want you to read this and benefit out of it. May God help us all in His divine mercy and love. Amen!!!
Philoxenus, Ascetic Discourses (1894) pp.337-402.
Discourse 10 -- On Gluttony
[p. 353] THE TENTH DISCOURSE: WHICH IS AGAINST THE LUST OF THE BELLY, AND WHICH BRINGETH AN ACCUSATION AGAINST GREEDINESS, AND WHICH REVEALETH AND SHEWETH ALL ITS FORMS, AND WHICH ALSO BLAMETH THOSE WHO MAKE THEIR LIVES SUBJECT UNTO THIS PASSION, AND WHICH MAKETH KNOWN THAT IT IS IMPOSSIBLE FOR THOSE WHO LABOUR IN BONDAGE UNTO THEIR LUSTS TO DRAW NIGH UNTO THE KNOWLEDGE AND WORKING OF ANY OF THE TRIUMPHS OF VIRTUE.
Now although all the evil passions and the service of the lusts are abominated and detested by the word of Divine knowledge, the filthy passion of the lust of the belly, which is wont to make those men who are subject thereto like unto beasts, is more abominated and detested than they all, because it taketh away from them the motions of knowledge which are seemly unto rational beings, and it sinketh and darkeneth their mind under the weight of meats; for this stinking and filthy passion is the door of all wickedness, and wherever it hath power, like a great, wide door, is it open for the entrance [p. 354] of all abominable things.
It is the destroyer of all excellence, it impedeth all righteousness, and it is the obstacle to all divine works in every shape |338 and form. The man who is bent double beneath this abominable lust is not able to take up the yoke of the discipleship of Christ, because when the belly hath become the mistress of the body, it commandeth and subdueth it unto all its wishes, and instead of the way which ascendeth unto heaven, it sheweth unto him that other path which goeth down into Sheol. And it hangeth upon him the weight of meats, and superfluities of foods, and it soaketh him, and maketh him heavy with the superabundance of drink, for when he carrieth the weight of meats, his lightness is weighed downwards, and when another body of lust is piled upon his own body, he goeth down easily, and descendeth the path the descent of which leadeth down into Sheol.
For the passion of the lust of the belly is the filthiest of all the passions, and whosoever hath once become a slave thereunto, and hath borne upon his shoulder its heavy yoke, it never again giveth unto him rest from its service, but by day and by night it worketh in him, and it sendeth him, like a tired servant, whithersoever it pleaseth, not by smooth ways, but by paths which are filled with stumbling blocks, and into a country in which [only] harm can be found; and the lover of lusts hath no eyes to see the light, for although paths exist, yet are they darkened by the weight of meats. Broad daylight is night unto him, and by night a second death sinketh his understanding in the heaviness of sleep.
His thoughts are scattered abroad by the wandering of the moisture [p. 355] of the body; the fire of nature is also cold within him because the inordinate moisture in him extinguisheth it; his thoughts are eclipsed from knowledge because the eye of his soul, which should look earnestly after knowledge, is sealed up; and a heavy |339 weight is hung upon him at all times, because he hath joined another body of meats unto his own body like a twin.
Now therefore the lust of the belly is an obstacle unto everything; it is the enemy of all contests of fortitude, it is the destroyer of fair renown, and it impedeth all triumphs, not only the triumphs of the spirit, but also those of the body. And, moreover, the lust of the belly is an obstacle also unto those who live in the world by bravery and strength, because manly endurance is of use to every thing which belongeth to name and fame, and health is necessary thereunto, and it hath need of lightness of limb, and of healthy strength; but to all these the lust of greediness is an obstacle.
For when the strength diminisheth by reason of the abundance of meats, and the power of the members hath left them, they are no longer ready for work, nor are they active for the labours of righteousness, and, as I have said,----if a man will only look carefully with the eye of knowledge----the weight of meats is an obstacle unto everything, unto the power of the body, and unto the knowledge of the soul, and unto the works of righteousness, and unto the works of loving-kindness, and unto the gifts of alms.
Whosoever is subject unto his belly is a beast, and is without discretion, and all his doings are like unto those of the animals, and since his whole stability is moved by carnal passions, [p. 356] he is utterly unprofitable in those of the soul. And thou mayest understand from things themselves that the lust of the belly is an obstacle unto all the virtuous deeds of which I have spoken; to instruction, to knowledge, to the brave endurance of the world, to the labours of righteousness, to loving-kindness unto the children of men, to love, and to the knowledge of |340 God.
That it is an obstacle unto instruction the world also testifieth by the tradition which cometh down thereunto, for children who are set apart to receive instruction are kept by their parents from a superfluity of food, because gluttony is a fence against instruction, for when the members bear the weight of food they are not able to carry the lightness of instruction, for lightness is the opposite of heaviness. So then the children who receive instruction take food by measure, that their mind may be [keen], and their thoughts are ready, and their memory clear both to receive and to retain, for superfluity of food preventeth both. And not only are children who are receiving the learning of instruction prevented from taking a superfluity of food, [but other men also who are learning some handicraft of the world, for their masters watch them carefully, and schoolmasters take good heed unto them, and each is a watcher and a guardian against too much food and inordinate drink, for they eat and drink by measure; and thus also is it with those who learn the empty professions of the world, dancers, or charioteers, or athletes; or those who learn the art of war, or others who receive the learning of books.
And if these arts which are wrought by the body, and the knowledge which is received from the world need moderation in food----which if it be taken in superabundance becometh an obstacle unto them----how much more doth superfluity of food become an obstacle unto the things which are fulfilled in the spirit?] 1 And so also is it with those who receive [p. 357] instruction, and who exercise themselves in the endurance of the things |341 of the world; and others also who possess the knowledge of the world have themselves need of endurance.
There is no man who hath drawn nigh unto learning, or unto the writing of books, or unto oratory, who is not sure that superfluity of food is an obstacle thereunto. For the thick smoke of food, when it increaseth and is not purified away, covereth the heart with gloom, and blackeneth the understanding, and confuseth the intelligence, and shutteth the door in the face of the production of fluency of speech, and it is like a covering spread over all the intellectual senses, and it preventeth and destroyeth the power of their working.
The man who is endowed with the gift of speech cannot speak if he be heavy with food, neither can the man of knowledge know, nor the man of understanding understand; and so to say, all the inner man becometh dark through the smoke of the dulness which ariseth from food.
And since a light and spiritual nature are mingled in us, the body should seek spirituality and lightness, and in proportion as the body becometh attenuated through abstinence, it gaineth association with the spirituality thereof; and so long as a too great weight [of food] be not laid thereupon, it acquireth the lightness wherewith it participateth in the lightness of the soul.
Now therefore by a wise dispensation a portion of the spirit was placed in a portion of the body, [p. 358] and as the body becometh heavy with meats, it draweth and bringeth down the soul thereto, and it hangeth its own weight upon it, and it tieth and fettereth the wings of the thoughts of the soul; but if the life of the body be maintained constantly by a sparing use of food, it becometh light, and purified, and refined, and the heaviness of its nature dwindleth away and it maketh |342 bright the soul which is in it, and maketh it glad, and is, moreover, itself obedient readily unto its will.
And because it is light and refined the soul leadeth it to whatsoever it desireth, and the body resisteth not the soul, and its heaviness doth not prevent the soul from stablishing it in the country which it seeketh.
For each of these, whether it be the body, or the soul, draweth the other unto its own will, because they are contrary to each other in their natures, and also in their wills, according to the word of the Apostle, who said, "The body lusteth for that which injureth the spirit, and the spirit lusteth for that which injureth the body; and the two are contrary each to each." 2
Now if, according to the word of the wise Apostle, all the lusts of the body are contrary to the soul, the lust of the belly must be more [contrary] than they all, because it is the door of all lusts, and among them all there is none so heavy as it is.
For as a weight which is light and volatile by nature, if suspended, inclineth downwards, even so is this lust of the belly, for it is composed of moisture and weight, and although the body naturally possesseth weight----for its nature is so to do----yet by a superabundance of food, other weight is added thereunto, and when weight is added unto weight, [p. 359] and body is doubled upon body, that is to say, the body of food upon the body of nature, the weight upon the soul increaseth, and the mistress becometh a handmaid in subjection; for the soul cannot henceforth rule over the body like a free thing, but it beareth the weight thereof like a slave.
And the lust of the belly is also contrary to |343 loving-kindness, because everything which is distributed by the gift thereof it turneth towards itself, and maketh it its own; and if it should happen that it would perform an act of loving-kindness----which is impossible----the thought of benevolence never moveth in it except it be already filled itself, and it is as if the greedy man were to give gifts, for it would appear that his gift is bestowed only when his own belly is full.
And this is not loving-kindness, but is like unto the habit of a beast and wild animal, for even the beast, when it hath filled its belly, will leave its manger, and lie down; and thus also is it with the glutton, for until he hath filled his belly at the table of his lusts he will not permit himself to look upon any other man with the eye of compassion. And he will not give to him that is needy of what is set before him, because he is in such subjection unto his lust that he thinketh that no one is as needy as himself, and in very truth there is no one in such need as the man who is in subjection unto his own lust.
For however much a man may give unto the cravings of lust, it still abideth in its needy condition, and it is never satisfied even with a collection of meats, but in proportion as it eateth meats it raveneth for others, and in proportion as it drinketh it lusteth eagerly for draughts of clear and sparkling wine. [p. 360]
In proportion as it hath food it hungereth and is not satisfied, and in proportion as it drinketh it thirsteth, and its thirst is not quenched; for however much the glutton eateth he still hungereth, and however much he drinketh, he still thirsteth.
Unto the lust of the belly there is no end, for when it hath been filled by its first [supply of] food, inasmuch as it is not for its need's sake that it is determined to fill [itself], but for |344 its lust's sake, it seeketh other food which is daintier than the first.
And again when it hath taken of this sufficient to please lust, it looketh out for other food which is more agreeable and more tasty, and thus its gluttony rangeth over all meats one by one, and it is not filled by them all.
And if he thinketh that he is satisfied, and he stayeth his hand from the food, his lust is not satisfied, even though his belly be filled, and it can hold no more; but he wisheth that his belly were as capacious as his lust, and that his stomach were even as his eye, in order that he might be able to gather together whatsoever he lusted after and to put it in his perforated storehouse.
The lover of possessions is a greedy fool, for he gathereth together and layeth up the treasures of his lusts in a house with a rent therein which keepeth nothing that is placed therein, and the Creator also, in order to rebuke the lust of gluttons, made a fixed limit to the capacity of the belly, so that of sheer necessity, even though it were against their will, their lusts might be restrained.
Now when the desire would load itself with much [food] although the cavity of the belly cannot receive it, behold desire is not kept back by force from its lust's quest; but though its desire lusteth, the small cavity of the belly, which is not able to hold [much], restraineth it.
For if [p. 361] the belly were large enough to receive all things which gluttons lust after, the sea, and land, and air, and sun, and all the other natural bodies would not be sufficient to satisfy their lusts.
And behold if, now that a vessel of small capacity hath been given unto their vast desire, sea and land are not sufficient for them, and they gather together all kinds [of food], and are not filled, and |345 everything which they lust after, and are not satisfied, and they ask for and seek after all the meats which are remote from them, if they had a belly as large as their desire what would they not do?
Now therefore the glutton is worse than any wild animal, for the beast, when it hath filled its belly, leaveth what remains of its food in the manger, and it knoweth not how to keep it for another time or for another day; but with the glutton it is not so, for, because his lust is not satisfied when his belly is filled, when he hath filled that measure which is in him, and which is ordained by nature to receive food, his lust taketh what remaineth, and keepeth it for another day, that is to say for days and months.
The glutton sitteth at the table of his need, and meditateth upon the times which are about to come; he taketh not only care to feed when food is at hand, but he thinketh upon what he shall eat to-morrow. His hand is upon the bread-basket which is near, and his mind is fixed upon the table which is far off; he beareth food in his right hand and in his left, but both of them are insufficient to bring fuel to the fire which is in him.
All his members minister unto the cruel mistress which he hath voluntarily set over himself, [p. 362] and they are not by any means whatsoever able to satisfy her by their service; his eyes, and hands, and feet are made slaves unto her, and they suffice not. He thinketh concerning her with his inner man, and with his outer man he followeth her about earnestly; but like a mistress who is to be ministered unto, she is not satisfied; and like Sheol she received stinkingness, and is not filled; and like the fire she receiveth fuel of meats, and she sayeth not, "Enough"; and like the earth she |346 drinketh, and is not satisfied; and like the eye, she lusteth for everything, but is not filled with anything; and the glutton wisheth that he had other members which would be sufficient to minister unto the iniquitous mistress which he hath gotten.
The gaze of the eye of the glutton is also fixed upon him that sitteth with him at the table, and he looketh upon him with a malignant eye lest he eat too much, and forthwith he either counteth his pieces of food in his mind, or [feareth] that peradventure the portion which is set before him is greater than his own; for his belly receiveth meats, but his mind meditateth upon his neighbour which sitteth with him.
Now the evilness of the lust of the belly is spread out upon everything, and if its eye be evil upon him that is near him, how can it help being evil upon him that is his companion at table? What then? Though lust lay up [food] for days and months, yet is it envious of others who are remote there from; and it asketh about every man what food he eateth, and what preparations of food are made and set out on his table, and what is the measure of his food; and when it hath made enquiries, and hath measured its own dainties and delicacies with that which it heareth concerning his, if its things are more [p. 363] than his it rejoiceth, and if his are more than its own, it is immediately filled with grief, and with the grief there is also envy, and with the envy there is wrath of mind because a man existeth who hath more meats than he hath.
What then? And although the greedy glutton is envious of those who are afar off, his eye looketh not away from him that is at the table with him, and although he may not say openly unto him, "Thou shalt not eat" ----now shame preventeth him from saying this----yet |347 his mind desireth this eagerly, saying, "How I wi
Thanks BinC for taking the time to explain to us the spirituality of eating too much. Just to paraphrase, are you saying that food is OK so long as its delicious and that you share it??
/
mahraeel
plzz p4m sister in Christ
so if ur overweight its a sin?
/
mahraeel
plzz p4m sister in Christ
Yes. And if you've noticed, most jehovah's witnesses are in fact overweight.
/
mahraeel
plzz p4m sister in Christ
By overweight, you mean the way that the Medical profession has determined it- the BMI?
"Phew, I got a BMI of 24.99- I'm safe!"