Hello,
Most Coptic Orthodox Christians have chosen to send their children to Roman Catholic Schools in Europe, USA or even Egypt.
We tend to have a certain affinity towards the Roman Catholic Church given their background. I've seen from many posts on tasbeha.org a lot of people being disappointed by what goes on in the Catholic Church, and in Catholic schools in general.
That's why I just wanted to create a thread to explain the different communities within the Catholic Church that Orthodox Christians SHOULD be aware of before either sending their Children to these schools, or they themselves - out of curiosity, find themselves in such environments:
* The Beatititude:
THis is a really new community. They have monks, nuns and priests. THe Uniform is white/brown color co-ordination. They are a Deeply & Highly Charismatic Community. Their entire worship centers around "Repos de l'Esprit" and "talking in tongues".
"Repos de l'Esprit" --> Abouna Daniel style making people fall over.
"talking in tongues" --> we are not talking about instant swahili speaking. Its the shalallala type.
Pere Silouane (father Silouane) is a huge figure in this community. He's a very charismatic person and has the capacity to gather youth - big time. In fact, his prayer group "Resuscito" was even on national TV. It managed to bring the highest number/turnout of youth for any prayer meeting.
The Archbishop of Versailles basically thanked Fr. Silouane for this, and then asked him, well.. told him, not to come to the Church again. The reason was that it was too charismatic: Kids falling over, people crying hysterically, you name it.. they do it.
Fr. Silouane, FYI - was a protestant priest before in Africa. He kept his protestant teachings and then became catholic.
In the summer time, he takes hundreds (i mean hundreds!) of youth somewhere in the countryside, and there, he holds a huge prayer meeting. He says the words "Feu" and apparently everyone just falls on the ground.
* COmmunity Saint Jean.
This is a very controversial community. Its contraversial for many reasons in fact. First and foremost - its founder:
MARIE DOMINIQUE PHILIPPE .
This is a very Charismatic man. This community believes that the soul enters the baby after x-number of weeks. After x number of weeks have passed, then you cannot undergo an abortion. Now, I forgot what the x was; but its definately quite a serious figure.
The community has been involved many "sexual" scandals. I cannot say whether they are true or false, but again - the Pope himself is really weary of this group. They do attract large numbers of youth also. Charismatic communities tend to do that.
This community is probably the one I suggest you to be careful from.
c) Emmanuel Community
This is one of the most highly respected Charismatic Communities in the RC Church. These people are smart. They realise that most catholics are not Charismatic, and tend to only keep charismatic prayers limited to private prayer meetings. It doesn't always work out that way; but charismatic prayer is not really "essential" for them.
Do you remember when the Pope came to Paris? Who were the organisers? Well, it was the beatitudes, and the Emmanuel. So basically, I saw all my friends on national TV when the Pope was here a few months ago.
Cardinal Lustiger, may he RIP, had a strong association with the Emmanuel Community.
I'm not sure whether these people realise how charismatic the communities are, but, many Catholics get "upset" when they see this. They feel a bit left out of their church.
They are a young community; unlike the traditionalists, they seem to bridge the gap between the extreme charismatic movements like St. John and the Beatitudes, and those of the traditionalists.
d) The Carmelites, Dominicans & Franciscans
These are religious orders more than communities - NON Charismatic.
e) Jesuits
This is a non-charismatic community, but their philosophy is bit like the Anglican Church: Everything you do is OK, but you must remember that God loves you.
I'm not saying they condone homosexuality, adultary, sexual immorality, abortion, fornication etc. But they don't say its really wrong either.
f) Opus Dei.
To get into this community, you must know someone there; and I bet you that that someone is in a major political party.
Its non-Charismatic.
g) Traditionalists.
Basically, these people go deeply against the Ecumenical Council of Vatican II. They consider Monseigner Lebfebvre as their founder. I think he was excommunicated for not accepting Vatican II.
This is the most interesting Community. There are many Catholic schools that are run by traditionalists; and if you can get into one, I would recommend this more than any other community.
Now, I'd recommend it, but you must be aware, they are the ONLY community to see you (as an ORthodox Christian!!) as a heretic!! But, they are far from Charismatic, and have many Orthodox qualities:
* You will never see disrespect for the Eucharist.
* All women in this Church wear veils over their heads during the mass
* The mass is in Latin and has a substantial part of the liturgy of Saint Basil in it.
* Orthodox Christians are NOT welcomed to take part in the Eucharist, but you can assist the mass; and that's good.
* The music isn't all that brilliant like the Emmanuel Community, but there are no Chrismatic behaviours in this Church; in fact they would get a heart attack if they saw how the beatitudes pray or Saint Jean.
* Any catholic that wasn't baptised in the traditional way has to be re-baptised, to enter into this community.
* This is quite a big community. I have no idea how it is funded. Its definately not the RC that is taking care of them, although they recognise the authority of the Pope, they don't recognise Vatican II.
Conclusion
In my opinion, this is the best place to send your kids if you are Orthodox. Of course, better than all this, it would be better to send them to an "Orthodox" school, but there aren't any; so that's why I'm creating this thread.
I would recommend your chosing order as follows:
a) Traditionalists
b) The Emmanuel Community
c) The Carmelites
d) Franciscans
e) If you can avoid it (Dominicans)
...z) Jesuits (i do not recommend this)
To go to an RC school where a community IS taking care of the religious aspect of the school, is better than a school that has no community. In fact, it could be disasterous if you send your kids to a Catholic School so they have some moral upbringing and find that such schools have taught them that abortion is OK after x-weeks, and that sex before marriage is OK, you must just use a condom and make sure you really really really really like the person a lot.
Be careful. In fact, I'd even recommend sending your kids to a good state school than to an RC where the community is questionable.
Comments
good thread. There are i think 3 orthodox schools in Australia, but my parents didn't let me go :( . And I think 1 or 2 of them has a high academic rating (> my school)
You are KIDDING ME!!
Australians have Orthodox Schools??
Like, Greek Orthodox, or Coptic Orthodox Schools?? Elementary schools ?? Pre-University Schools?? What??
WOW!!
I've never heard of that!!
Tell me more.
I went to a catholic school where the head was a priest!
But our religion teacher was clearly anti-christianity and basically all religion lessons I had were 'proofs' that christianity is wrong and that atheism is good...
There was high intolerance from my religion teachers side to any christian beliefs
It was very sad actually, but to be honest none of the students are religious anyway, so to them his anti-religion attitude and atheism are completely normal. Less than 10% believe in the possibility of God or a vague power in the universe. The majority are convinced atheists...
Its so typical this story. Me too. I went to a Catholic School where the head was in fact a cardinal. The teachers loved to teach atheism still.
Their views on sex education were basically: "Why not, if you're young and you're of legal age.. go for it".
That's why I'm suggesting that you find a catholic school that has a community. A community such as the Emmanuel, or the Traditionalists are more spiritual than someone that's just "Catholic". I don't know why belonging to an order or to a particular community has this effect, but - it could be that the fact that someone ends up in a community means they are practicing.
That's all it boils down to.
[quote author=ChristopherBoctor link=topic=7212.msg95760#msg95760 date=1224259547]
good thread. There are i think 3 orthodox schools in Australia, but my parents didn't let me go :( . And I think 1 or 2 of them has a high academic rating (> my school)
You are KIDDING ME!!
Australians have Orthodox Schools??
Like, Greek Orthodox, or Coptic Orthodox Schools?? Elementary schools ?? Pre-University Schools?? What??
WOW!!
I've never heard of that!!
Tell me more.
Yes there are Orthodox Schools in Australia, both Greek and Coptic. There are 3 Coptic Orthodox shools in Sydney (Of which I had the blessing of going to one of them for a period of time, and also my younger siblings currently go to one) and I think 1 Coptic Orthodox school in Melbourne. Of the Coptic schools in Sydney, two of them cater for all school levels (Primary and Secondary school) while one is still reaching towards it. However we do not have a Coptic University (If that was what you were asking). Oh although there's also a Master's Degree in Coptology in one of the Universities here in Sydney as well (Check Macquarie University's website for NSW if you dont believe me). As for Greek Orthodox schools, there are plenty of them, but unfortunately I dont have too much info on this. But know they have far more schools and have been here longer in Australia :D
Just to let you guys know, the Coptic School I went to does have a very high academic rating, ranking in the top 200 schools in Sydney every year. My friends from there graduated last year when I did and quite a few of them recieved tremendous results which would rival the results from other schools, so Its not all that bad
[quote author=QT_PA_2T link=topic=7212.msg95769#msg95769 date=1224276130]
[quote author=ChristopherBoctor link=topic=7212.msg95760#msg95760 date=1224259547]
good thread. There are i think 3 orthodox schools in Australia, but my parents didn't let me go :( . And I think 1 or 2 of them has a high academic rating (> my school)
You are KIDDING ME!!
Australians have Orthodox Schools??
Like, Greek Orthodox, or Coptic Orthodox Schools?? Elementary schools ?? Pre-University Schools?? What??
WOW!!
I've never heard of that!!
Tell me more.
Yes there are Orthodox Schools in Australia, both Greek and Coptic. There are 3 Coptic Orthodox shools in Sydney (Of which I had the blessing of going to one of them for a period of time, and also my younger siblings currently go to one) and I think 1 Coptic Orthodox school in Melbourne. Of the Coptic schools in Sydney, two of them cater for all school levels (Primary and Secondary school) while one is still reaching towards it. However we do not have a Coptic University (If that was what you were asking). Oh although there's also a Master's Degree in Coptology in one of the Universities here in Sydney as well (Check Macquarie University's website for NSW if you dont believe me). As for Greek Orthodox schools, there are plenty of them, but unfortunately I dont have too much info on this. But know they have far more schools and have been here longer in Australia :D
Just to let you guys know, the Coptic School I went to does have a very high academic rating, ranking in the top 200 schools in Sydney every year. My friends from there graduated last year when I did and quite a few of them recieved tremendous results which would rival the results from other schools, so Its not all that bad
WHAT!!!
WHAT!! WHAT IS THAT?
You have a Coptic School for pre-university???
Who teaches there?? Coptic Christians??
Are Catholics allowed to attend the school? Is it funded also by the state??
WHAT!!!
WHAT!! WHAT IS THAT?
You have a Coptic School for pre-university???
Who teaches there?? Coptic Christians??
Are Catholics allowed to attend the school? Is it funded also by the state??
Yes, Yes we do!
The people who teach there are qualified teachers, Coptic and non-Coptic Christians (Although the qualified bit can be questionable at times :P ). There shouldn't be any discrimination on who teaches at the school, as long as the integrity of the Orthodox faith isn't mistreated or insulted. People of all backgrounds are allowed to attend the school, but they have to adhere to all our religious- based practices (Going to school masses, prayers, etc. but not partaking of sacraments if they don't belong to our church).
Unfortunately, the Coptic School is considered a 'Private' school by the state and so funding isnt given frequently by the state (Although high academic performance does give the school an incentive to recieve support from them). Im afraid that's all that I can really add, the Coptic School functions just like any other school in many ways, just very 'Coptic'...lol
Hope I helped :D
Catholic Unis are everywhere... its not the same as having a Coptic Orthodox school...
I'd really love more information on these schools.
And I also didn't know there were so many coptic schools around the world, I wonder how 'coptic' the schools are?
I didn't say they weren't everywhere, my point is that they're 'catholic' just by name...
And I also didn't know there were so many coptic schools around the world, I wonder how 'coptic' the schools are?
Yeah, me too.. im dying to know!!
I wish i went to a Coptic School.. that's so cool.
Does the state pay for some of the tuition?
and i beleive people send their kids to Catholic schools becasue usually, people might think that it is a better learning enivroment for their kids and al..... My friends go to a catholic school and they tell me there are athiests and seikhs that go there...... and in Alexandria , Egypt, in Collège St.Marc, (a very famous french catholic school) i would say there is more muslims that go to a catholic school than catholics and christians......
I dunno whats the point of having a Catholic School if it is not for only Catholics or even just Christians.....
There is a Coptic Orthodox School in Mississauga Canada...
and i beleive people send their kids to Catholic schools becasue usually, people might think that it is a better learning enivroment for their kids and al..... My friends go to a catholic school and they tell me there are athiests and seikhs that go there...... and in Alexandria , Egypt, in Collège St.Marc, (a very famous french catholic school) i would say there is more muslims that go to a catholic school than catholics and christians......
I dunno whats the point of having a Catholic School if it is not for only Catholics or even just Christians.....
Its not that pharoah, I mean, I'm all for muslims and seikhs attending catholic schools, but I want the school to be catholic. I mean, it needs to have a focus on our values, and on religious education. And frankly, it doesn't have that. And the worst part is this: The Roman Catholic Church pay money (well a large part anyway) to keep these schools running, and frankly, kids leave them with a bad impression about the Church, and NO spirituality whatsoever.
I remember when I was 16, I went to a catholic school in the heart of London. The day I turned 16, all the girls asked me if I was going to lose my virginity. They scared the hell out of me.
The teachers were no better. They didnt provide any christian advice nor fellowship for them. The kids were so wild and violent. I couldn't stand it... and look how i turned out!?
How r we gonna change the world if we don't spend any time living in it? I don't mean going to bars, clubs etc, i mean going to school and work and talking to our neighbours. and if kids don't go to main stream schools they won't understand other people so well or hang out with them.
Jesus and the disciples hung out with sinners, Paul hung out with tent-makers (his job).
I went to a state school in the uk and was the ONLY Christian in my year group (of any denomination). A couple of other kids had parents who went to church but did it just for appearances, if u asked them what they believed (i did this quite a lot!) they said they were atheists.
I got bullied really a lot, like most weeks, including being punched and kicked and having few friends but i don't regret it at all, it taught me that knowing God was more important than being popular, and i was always aware of God being with me.
Hey, don't panic, most state schools are nowhere near this bad but what i want to say is that Jesus suffered and suffering is a normal part of human life. everyone suffers in some way but if u suffer for God, he is with you, closer than a brother.
In case yr still worried, i am now in a responsible job (doctor), happily married, very normal, i don't whip my back with chains etc etc, just someone who learnt early on not to be afraid of suffering. so if the bus is late and i'm cold or i've dropped a plate or something, it doesn't upset me.
seeing people being bullied does though, so if anyone needs some advice, drop me a line and i'll pray 4 u and try to say something useful.
Ps i'm not saying Christian schools are no good, they can also be a useful witness to the world, i'm just trying to widen the debate to look at what we're aiming for in the long term.
May God guide us all, glory to his name.
+mahraeel+
Once our teacher in religion class (which was not really religion class in the sense that you actually learn about christianity, it was more learning how to become atheists and why) asked the ones who believed in God to raise their hands. I remember this one girl didn't dare to do that until she saw that someone else (me) had raised her hand.
I mean to say, sadly, in Western Europe religion is dead in the hearts of people, even worse, they take pride in being atheists (delivered from the stories of the Dark Middleages and finally knowing the scientific proofs of: there is no God).
It was very hard for me as a christian, although no one really said anything to me about it, I knew people thought it was strange for someone to be christian... and the hard part was not having anyone to share your faith with, anyone you could discuss some issues with from a christian point of view.
Hi my friends, i know life is tough, but why r we so keen to send our kids to Christians schools?
How r we gonna change the world if we don't spend any time living in it? I don't mean going to bars, clubs etc, i mean going to school and work and talking to our neighbours. and if kids don't go to main stream schools they won't understand other people so well or hang out with them.
Jesus and the disciples hung out with sinners, Paul hung out with tent-makers (his job).
I went to a state school in the uk and was the ONLY Christian in my year group (of any denomination). A couple of other kids had parents who went to church but did it just for appearances, if u asked them what they believed (i did this quite a lot!) they said they were atheists.
I got bullied really a lot, like most weeks, including being punched and kicked and having few friends but i don't regret it at all, it taught me that knowing God was more important than being popular, and i was always aware of God being with me.
Hey, don't panic, most state schools are nowhere near this bad but what i want to say is that Jesus suffered and suffering is a normal part of human life. everyone suffers in some way but if u suffer for God, he is with you, closer than a brother.
In case yr still worried, i am now in a responsible job (doctor), happily married, very normal, i don't whip my back with chains etc etc, just someone who learnt early on not to be afraid of suffering. so if the bus is late and i'm cold or i've dropped a plate or something, it doesn't upset me.
seeing people being bullied does though, so if anyone needs some advice, drop me a line and i'll pray 4 u and try to say something useful.
Ps i'm not saying Christian schools are no good, they can also be a useful witness to the world, i'm just trying to widen the debate to look at what we're aiming for in the long term.
May God guide us all, glory to his name.
No. I disagree. I didn't say Christian Universities nor Christian neighbourhoods, nor Christian workplaces.
I said "Christian Schools".
Let me give you a quote from Anba Angaelos: "You cannot save someone drowning unless you yourself can swim". I think at the very delicate age of adolesense and before, the child develops and grows in confidence. You do not want to shatter their confidence by sending them to schools where they teach homosexuality is OK, and sex before marriage oK, and aetheism is OK, and Genesis was just a fairy-tale story. Do you think that will not affect their faith?? He/she will see that christian values are not only shared by his/her immediate family but by other school children. When they take up to leave to go to uni - what will happen is that they will become "good swimmers".
[quote author=ChristopherBoctor link=topic=7212.msg95760#msg95760 date=1224259547]
good thread. There are i think 3 orthodox schools in Australia, but my parents didn't let me go :( . And I think 1 or 2 of them has a high academic rating (> my school)
You are KIDDING ME!!
Australians have Orthodox Schools??
Like, Greek Orthodox, or Coptic Orthodox Schools?? Elementary schools ?? Pre-University Schools?? What??
WOW!!
I've never heard of that!!
Tell me more.
i mean 3 Coptic Orthodox Schools, i am sure there are more schools for greek or w,e
I laughed when i heard that.
But now most of the religion teachers try to show their catholic beliefs, i think abit more than they should (pride), though some re teachers still act as athiests. And most science teachers in our school act as atheists.
I remember my science teacher in grade 9 telling us about evolution and how bad the church was, seriously? in a catholic school, teaching young kids to believe against their own religion??
its a good think she left, i really did not like her.
The teachers in the school are very hypocritical.
One day they are saying such things as these, another day they are saying a prayer in the school mass, and handing out the Body of Christ for communion, aswell as the "school captain".
I appreciate your point, and maybe in some places the state schools are just too bad. Maybe we need both in order to have a full Christian witness. By the way, what does your screen name mean? Is it something in abbreviated coptic?