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Latest news about Deir al-Sultan
Here's a BBC story with the latest news about Deir al-Sultan monastery in Jerusalem.
Just another reason not to go to Israel.
----> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7676332.stm
Just another reason not to go to Israel.
----> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7676332.stm
Comments
Thanks for sharing though!
and even if either one owns it, would it be more responsible on behalf of both Churches to just let the repairs go on, then they can despute it over after the repair is done and the Monastery is safe and sound?
Anyway, later Israeli court cases all ruled that the monastery much be returned to the Coptic Orthoox Church, however the Israeli government has consistently ignored the decision. After Sadat signed peace with Israel the Israeli government were told that normalisation of relations would be helped by the legal decision being carried out and the monastery returned to the Coptics - they again ignored the decision.
Of course this isnt the reason why we're not allowed to go to Israel, but the actions of the Israeli government are despicable. It is a very depressing case and one that will never be solved unless the Israeli government follows what its own courts have ruled.
Of course this isnt the reason why we're not allowed to go to Israel, but the actions of the Israeli government are despicable. It is a very depressing case and one that will never be solved unless the Israeli government follows what its own courts have ruled.
wow... you all aren't allowed to go to Israel??? Why?
[quote author=matt88 link=topic=7234.msg95930#msg95930 date=1224481913]
Of course this isnt the reason why we're not allowed to go to Israel, but the actions of the Israeli government are despicable. It is a very depressing case and one that will never be solved unless the Israeli government follows what its own courts have ruled.
wow... you all aren't allowed to go to Israel??? Why?
Ok, there are a couple of chief reasons why we cant go to Israel. The main one though is that Jerusalem is still illegally occupied by the Zionists, and our Palestinian brothers are still suffering hence going to Israel was banned as Baba Shenouda stated, and I quote, "we are Arabs even if we are Christian. The Egyptian Copts will never be the faint-hearted of the Arab nation". Essentially, we will not be the ones to betray the Arab cause.
There is a video here of Baba Shenouda talking about why Copts cant go to Jerusalem - http://www.memritv.org/clip/en/1432.htm
It has subtitles if you dont speak Arabic.
Last, his Holiness has stated that if any Copts go to Jerusalem they will be instantly ex-communicated. Apparently it is a sin that one cannot simply go and confess because going to Israel is something that is well-thought out etc.
As far as im concerned our holy father is completely correct in what he has decreed. Why should we go to the Zionist state while they oppress our Arab brothers? The situation with Deir al-Sultan is heart-breaking as well. What makes it worse is that the facts are black and white but the Israeli court decision has been ignored by the Israeli government for political reasons. And the Israelis wonder why peace with Egypt is so cold.
Anyway, beautiful picture Hezekiel. Thanks :).
Matt
[quote author=Hailemikael link=topic=7234.msg95979#msg95979 date=1224544579]
[quote author=matt88 link=topic=7234.msg95930#msg95930 date=1224481913]
Of course this isnt the reason why we're not allowed to go to Israel, but the actions of the Israeli government are despicable. It is a very depressing case and one that will never be solved unless the Israeli government follows what its own courts have ruled.
wow... you all aren't allowed to go to Israel??? Why?
Ok, there are a couple of chief reasons why we cant go to Israel. The main one though is that Jerusalem is still illegally occupied by the Zionists, and our Palestinian brothers are still suffering hence going to Israel was banned as Baba Shenouda stated, and I quote, "we are Arabs even if we are Christian. The Egyptian Copts will never be the faint-hearted of the Arab nation". Essentially, we will not be the ones to betray the Arab cause.
There is a video here of Baba Shenouda talking about why Copts cant go to Jerusalem - http://www.memritv.org/clip/en/1432.htm
It has subtitles if you dont speak Arabic.
Last, his Holiness has stated that if any Copts go to Jerusalem they will be instantly ex-communicated. Apparently it is a sin that one cannot simply go and confess because going to Israel is something that is well-thought out etc.
As far as im concerned our holy father is completely correct in what he has decreed. Why should we go to the Zionist state while they oppress our Arab brothers? The situation with Deir al-Sultan is heart-breaking as well. What makes it worse is that the facts are black and white but the Israeli court decision has been ignored by the Israeli government for political reasons. And the Israelis wonder why peace with Egypt is so cold.
Anyway, beautiful picture Hezekiel. Thanks :).
Matt
I haven't heard of ex-communication, but in the past the pope stated that any person who had gone to Israel wasn't allowed to take communion until they officially apoligized in the newspapers!!!
I know this from a trusted source...
Anyways, many people didn't agree with that decision and said the pope doesn't have the right to deny the Blood and Flesh of Christ from the believers... what do you guys think of that?
God Bless
Here's a BBC story with the latest news about Deir al-Sultan monastery in Jerusalem.
Just another reason not to go to Israel.
----> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7676332.stm
This is so weired, I thought the ethiopian orthdox church was our sister church along with the armenian orthodox.
This is a real shame to see us fighting over things like this.
I really hope this can be resolved asap. It makes us as a Church look really bad, and doesn't show the integrity and love that Christ has asked us to show to our own brothers.
[quote author=Hailemikael link=topic=7234.msg95979#msg95979 date=1224544579]
[quote author=matt88 link=topic=7234.msg95930#msg95930 date=1224481913]
Of course this isnt the reason why we're not allowed to go to Israel, but the actions of the Israeli government are despicable. It is a very depressing case and one that will never be solved unless the Israeli government follows what its own courts have ruled.
wow... you all aren't allowed to go to Israel??? Why?
Ok, there are a couple of chief reasons why we cant go to Israel. The main one though is that Jerusalem is still illegally occupied by the Zionists, and our Palestinian brothers are still suffering hence going to Israel was banned as Baba Shenouda stated, and I quote, "we are Arabs even if we are Christian. The Egyptian Copts will never be the faint-hearted of the Arab nation". Essentially, we will not be the ones to betray the Arab cause.
There is a video here of Baba Shenouda talking about why Copts cant go to Jerusalem - http://www.memritv.org/clip/en/1432.htm
It has subtitles if you dont speak Arabic.
Last, his Holiness has stated that if any Copts go to Jerusalem they will be instantly ex-communicated. Apparently it is a sin that one cannot simply go and confess because going to Israel is something that is well-thought out etc.
As far as im concerned our holy father is completely correct in what he has decreed. Why should we go to the Zionist state while they oppress our Arab brothers? The situation with Deir al-Sultan is heart-breaking as well. What makes it worse is that the facts are black and white but the Israeli court decision has been ignored by the Israeli government for political reasons. And the Israelis wonder why peace with Egypt is so cold.
Anyway, beautiful picture Hezekiel. Thanks :).
Matt
wow i had no idea it was like this. thanks for explaining.
i didn't know you all were this close to the Arab cause.
but don't the muslim arabs terrorize your people (or is it only few of them)... why support them when it comes to this issue.
Hailemikael, as for the Arab cause, well I mean some Copts take a bit of a radical stance on things and demonise Arabs and Muslims (im not trying to antogonise anyone here, or start an argument, but from my experience some Copts - usually the ones out of Egypt - have a very negative view of the Arabs, Muslims etc) and so feel like they are not part of the pan-Arab cause. I think this has a fair bit to do with the fact that Islamism is on the rise. However, the Coptic Church has officially been a huge supporter of the Palestinians and the pan-Arab cause. Our former Pope, Baba Kyrollos was even a very close friend to President Nasser (the father of modern-day Arab nationalism) and our current Pope has constantly declared that the Arabs are one, we should form Arab lobbies to fight for the Arab cause, and the Palestinians are suffering too much etc. Sure, there are some terrorists but they are the minority. A large problem in Egypt isnt so much Coptic-Muslim but more about the fact that the economy isnt too good, and because Copts traditionally have better education and are richer so they become a natural scapegoat for the worst-off in society. As for the Palestinians, well i dont think there would be many Copts in Egypt that didnt feel for them and their suffering. As I said though, some of the Copts in the diaspora take quite a different stance though. Personally, I think it's a bad approach. We are surrounded by Arabs so it's best to accept it. Trying to be seperate wont help matters and will just make us stand out more. Second, the Bible tells us to love one another and be examples for others. Sadly though, some Copts see things in a "tit for tat" light. I mean, yes some persecutation has happened (and continues) but re-asserting ourselves as different will not help things. Anyway, at the end of the day, what matters most is the position of our holy and wise Pope. God willing he will continue to lead us for many many more years, and may the Coptic Church always be blessed with wise leaders like our current Pope and Baba Kyrollos.
Matt88, I'm not in America, and this didn't happen in America, it happened in Egypt!
Woah, interesting! I would have though Egypt was a lot stricter. Anyway, i'll try and find the link where I heard Baba Shenouda say that. Im pretty certain I have it saved.