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Amen Alleluia

LifeinChristLifeinChrist
edited December 1969 in Hymns Discussion
For amen alleluia at the end of the liturgy, do we now say pimici evol? or do we continue with the annual response until the start of kiahk?

Comments

  • coptmorouscoptmorous
    We continue the annual response until the start of kiahk
  • gergesezzatgergesezzat
    as it is written in decon service book "nahdet elkanais". we should say it from the beginning of the fast.
  • jydeaconjydeacon
    Yup, pimici from the beginning of the fast, but ak tonk to the end of hatoor
  • minatasgeelminatasgeel
    i personally don't agree with that. just doesn't make sense at all..
  • mmatt95mmatt95
    It does make sense because the response pimici has nothing to do with Kiahk per se, it's related to the anticipation on the birth of Christ in the fullness of time, the One who is born from the Father before all ages. This is exactly what we are doing during the 40 (43) days of fasting before the Nativity, just like Moses was about to receive the word of God on stone, we expect the Word of God in the flesh.
  • minatasgeelminatasgeel
    [quote author=Hos Erof link=topic=7409.msg98093#msg98093 date=1228859925]
    It does make sense because the response pimici has nothing to do with Kiahk per se, it's related to the anticipation on the birth of Christ in the fullness of time, the One who is born from the Father before all ages. This is exactly what we are doing during the 40 (43) days of fasting before the Nativity, just like Moses was about to receive the word of God on stone, we expect the Word of God in the flesh.


    but there are a LOT of responses that have the same understanding. why not consider those to. also you are talking like, lets put all Kiahk hymn in one side, and this into another.
  • LifeinChristLifeinChrist
    but at the same time a lot of them have to do with St. Mary and are reserved for Kiahk "the mary month"
  • minatasgeelminatasgeel
    [quote author=Hisservant link=topic=7409.msg98096#msg98096 date=1228863281]
    but at the same time a lot of them have to do with St. Mary and are reserved for Kiahk "the mary month"


    again, there are some that are only FOR OUR LORD. not including St Mary at allll..
  • ophadeceophadece
    [coptic]]]ma] nem Myna qen oujwk[/coptic]
    I agree with Mina completely
    [coptic]oujai qen `P=[=c[/coptic]
  • minatasgeelminatasgeel
    Don't get me wrong..... I would love to say everything all the time... But it just doesn't make any sense. 
  • minabdalla
    ok.. it depends where u look and where ur from..  some books say you dont say aktonk at the begining at the fast.. some say not till hatoor.. some books say pi meci at the begining of the fast.. some say at the begining of the kiahk.. it all depend on where u first learned it..
  • minatasgeelminatasgeel
    [quote author=one of the many Mina's link=topic=7409.msg98152#msg98152 date=1228958043]
    ok.. it depends where u look and where ur from..  some books say you dont say aktonk at the begining at the fast.. some say not till hatoor.. some books say pi meci at the begining of the fast.. some say at the begining of the kiahk.. it all depend on where u first learned it..


    "aktonk" is differnt. in ALL the books, including rites books, khedmit shamas (all of them), psalmodyies, katameros...etc. they all say to change only after end of Hatoor.
  • jydeaconjydeacon
    [quote author=one of the many Mina's link=topic=7409.msg98152#msg98152 date=1228958043]
    ok.. it depends where u look and where ur from..  some books say you dont say aktonk at the begining at the fast.. some say not till hatoor.. some books say pi meci at the begining of the fast.. some say at the begining of the kiahk.. it all depend on where u first learned it..


    Thats right as mina said, basically all of the khedmit el shamas and rites w/e it says to say aktonk to the end of hatoor. It has nothing to do with where you are from or who you learned from. The rites say aktonk till the end of hator.
  • minatasgeelminatasgeel
    in m.Farag books it says to start saying [coptic]pimici[/coptic] only in kiahk.
    in Albair's book, it says only in Kiahk.
  • LifeinChristLifeinChrist
    Honestly, I will admit myself that the best way to find all the right answers to these questions is by finding the oldest book, or the Holy Synod comes out with a book to end these disputes because I asked another person who said in his arabic khidmit shamas (not albair's) it said from the start of the fast, just like we begin saying the fraction of the nativity from the begining of the fast.
  • mmatt95mmatt95
    [quote author=minagir link=topic=7409.msg98094#msg98094 date=1228861126]
    [quote author=Hos Erof link=topic=7409.msg98093#msg98093 date=1228859925]
    It does make sense because the response pimici has nothing to do with Kiahk per se, it's related to the anticipation on the birth of Christ in the fullness of time, the One who is born from the Father before all ages. This is exactly what we are doing during the 40 (43) days of fasting before the Nativity, just like Moses was about to receive the word of God on stone, we expect the Word of God in the flesh.


    but there are a LOT of responses that have the same understanding. why not consider those to. also you are talking like, lets put all Kiahk hymn in one side, and this into another.


    Yes, maybe we should consider those too...one of the hymns that comes to my mind is the mohayyar. The question is, do we have to differentiate between the rites of Kiahk, and those of the fast? If you read the text of the Fraction or the concluding canon, it's not specifically for Kiahk, its for the Nativity Fast and it's even prayed on the feast of Nativity itself (the fraction that is)...
    To be honest, it doesnt even make sense to say aktonk untill the end of Hator, because from the start of the nativity fast we prepare for the coming of the Lord and the "year cycle" starts all over, which should include saying Aki. But since there's a lot of consensus about the aki/aktonk issue, the whole issue really isn't about logic anymore, and we'll just need to get to the books and see what rite is authentic and stick to it. Maybe we should just pray 43 days in Kiahk rite for the sake of consistency :P
  • ophadeceophadece
    [coptic]Namenrta] tyrou,
    Hwc erof af]nyi `noumoust e;nanef - aretensancomc enibwhem `nte ]paramouny e;be pijinmici `nsai ie piwmc `nsai tetennajimi je eunyou `nca nisai qen nefcaji jekac nihwc ouo][/coptic]
    Hos erof gave me a good point - if we look at the replies of the Baramoun of the feast of Nativity or Theophany feast we will find that they come after the feasts in their words although the tunes are different
    [coptic]E;be vai teten`scaji je nicaji `nte ]nyctia oni an kata nai `n<oiak ouoh tetencwoun tyrou je nihwc `nte <oiak ne ouo] enikeabot[/coptic]
    For that we can say that the words of the fast are not similar to those of Kiahk and we all know that the hymns of Kiahk are different than any other month
    [coptic][i`nhyt je ]paradococ `tcabon je ]nyctia eumou] eroc je ]nyctia `nte pijinmici `mmon `n<oiak[/coptic]
    Beware that tradition teaches us that the fast is called the fast of Nativity not of Kiahk
    [coptic]qen `pqae ]`scaji je pibwhem (pimici ebolqen `Viwt) ]]ma] nem `pjincaji erof ebolqen pierhytc `nte ]nyctia[/coptic]
    At last I can say that the reply "[coptic]pimici ebolqen `Viwt[/coptic]" I agree with saying it from the start of the fast
    [coptic]oujai qen `P=[=c[/coptic]
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