Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Categories
- All Categories 13.8K
- General Category 10.9K
- General Announcements 184
- Faith Issues 3.4K
- Coptic Orthodox Church 2.5K
- Personal Issues 1.4K
- Prayer Requests 423
- Random Issues 1.8K
- Introductions 294
- Non-Orthodox Inquiries 232
- Youth Corner 606
- Hymns 2.5K
- Hymns Discussion 2.5K
- Technicial Difficulties 368
- Technical Topics 368
Father Zakaria Named Daniel of the Year 2008
Father Zakaria a coptic priest who talks about Christian Rights and turning muslims to Christians was named Daniel of the year 2008 for further details, go to http://www.worldmag.com/articles/14763
may god guide us and protect us
For for me
may god guide us and protect us
For for me
Comments
People....all that is official is he is banned from doing he's duties as a priest. HE'S STILL A PRIEST, just not allowed to do anything specific that priests do. what's ever he does now is his own actions upon his own will....not the Church's, not the Pope's, not any of the bishops.
isnt that wrong?
and why is he banned from doing his duties as a priest? wait.. how can u call someone a priest, if he nvr does anything priests do? that makes no sense.
It's just a matter of publicity. He is still a priest. Disregard anything else that you hear.
We don't want to spread false information. All that matters is that he is still a priest.
[quote author=minagir link=topic=7434.msg98263#msg98263 date=1229137270]
People....all that is official is he is banned from doing he's duties as a priest. HE'S STILL A PRIEST, just not allowed to do anything specific that priests do. what's ever he does now is his own actions upon his own will....not the Church's, not the Pope's, not any of the bishops.
isnt that wrong?
and why is he banned from doing his duties as a priest? wait.. how can u call someone a priest, if he nvr does anything priests do? that makes no sense.
well the reason is that PRIESTS, as long as they are still Coptic Orthodox Christians, they can't "undress" there black garments. they can't become like the normal people again. so to control them (punish them for example), you just stop them from practicing the sacraments.
so this way there is no rules or rite broken....
PK
You guys, think logically. Can sayedna really ban Abouna Zakaria from practicing the sacraments for what he is doing? He is evangelizing. I am sick of people on this site who criticize him and Abouna Makary the exorcist and say that they are both excommunicated and the rest of the clergy are against them etc... Abouna Makary was in Canada not too long ago at a seminary. Excommunicated? Obviously not. Although Abouna Zakaria is in a much more tight situation, sayedna cant basically take away his priesthood away from him for evangelizing. The only thing he might do is have him pray liturgies in secret and it could just be a cover up that he is excommunicated so that the church doesn't look bad and get blamed for what he does.
PK
what in the world are you considering in these words. 1st, EVANGELIZING is not a "sacrament" it's a duty to all Christians.
2nd, being a priest, means you are to OBEY your fathers, being the bishops and the Pope.
3rd, being excommunicated happens only when the church fathers see that the person is not saying the truth, the Orthodox faith anymore. and normally when that happens, we all GET TO KNOW about it with how the media works today.
Think about and don't just through words keda for nothing....
[quote author=PopeKyrillos link=topic=7434.msg98267#msg98267 date=1229142700]
You guys, think logically. Can sayedna really ban Abouna Zakaria from practicing the sacraments for what he is doing? He is evangelizing. I am sick of people on this site who criticize him and Abouna Makary the exorcist and say that they are both excommunicated and the rest of the clergy are against them etc... Abouna Makary was in Canada not too long ago at a seminary. Excommunicated? Obviously not. Although Abouna Zakaria is in a much more tight situation, sayedna cant basically take away his priesthood away from him for evangelizing. The only thing he might do is have him pray liturgies in secret and it could just be a cover up that he is excommunicated so that the church doesn't look bad and get blamed for what he does.
PK
what in the world are you considering in these words. 1st, EVANGELIZING is not a "sacrament" it's a duty to all Christians.
2nd, being a priest, means you are to OBEY your fathers, being the bishops and the Pope.
3rd, being excommunicated happens only when the church fathers see that the person is not saying the truth, the Orthodox faith anymore. and normally when that happens, we all GET TO KNOW about it with how the media works today.
Think about and don't just through words keda for nothing....
I dont really see where I said evangelizing was a sacrament. I never meant that. Do you have anything from a bishop or the pope that says Abouna Zakaria is excommunicated or a command to him to stop evangelizing? No, this is why i am against the criticism towards him. Unless I see or hear anything from the pope or even a bishop that tells abouna to stop doing what he is doing than everything that everyone else says is all in vain because it is not true. Your third point only confirms what I said saying that there is no way he can be excommunicated. Did Abouna Zakaria say anything against the Orthodox Faith or anything that was not true? No. Therefore, why would he be excommunicated?
PK
[quote author=minagir link=topic=7434.msg98274#msg98274 date=1229144178]
[quote author=PopeKyrillos link=topic=7434.msg98267#msg98267 date=1229142700]
You guys, think logically. Can sayedna really ban Abouna Zakaria from practicing the sacraments for what he is doing? He is evangelizing. I am sick of people on this site who criticize him and Abouna Makary the exorcist and say that they are both excommunicated and the rest of the clergy are against them etc... Abouna Makary was in Canada not too long ago at a seminary. Excommunicated? Obviously not. Although Abouna Zakaria is in a much more tight situation, sayedna cant basically take away his priesthood away from him for evangelizing. The only thing he might do is have him pray liturgies in secret and it could just be a cover up that he is excommunicated so that the church doesn't look bad and get blamed for what he does.
PK
what in the world are you considering in these words. 1st, EVANGELIZING is not a "sacrament" it's a duty to all Christians.
2nd, being a priest, means you are to OBEY your fathers, being the bishops and the Pope.
3rd, being excommunicated happens only when the church fathers see that the person is not saying the truth, the Orthodox faith anymore. and normally when that happens, we all GET TO KNOW about it with how the media works today.
Think about and don't just through words keda for nothing....
I dont really see where I said evangelizing was a sacrament. I never meant that. Do you have anything from a bishop or the pope that says Abouna Zakaria is excommunicated or a command to him to stop evangelizing? No, this is why i am against the criticism towards him. Unless I see or hear anything from the pope or even a bishop that tells abouna to stop doing what he is doing than everything that everyone else says is all in vain because it is not true. Your third point only confirms what I said saying that there is no way he can be excommunicated. Did Abouna Zakaria say anything against the Orthodox Faith or anything that was not true? No. Therefore, why would he be excommunicated?
PK
he is NOT excommunicated.
NO ONE can stop anyone from evangelizing. The is NOT stopping him from evangelizing, but rather he only stopped him from taking on his priest duties of the sacraments. This is not something new, it been that way for years. As i said before, what ever abouna is doing, it's under his own authority....and he have every right of it.
[quote author=PopeKyrillos link=topic=7434.msg98275#msg98275 date=1229145547]
[quote author=minagir link=topic=7434.msg98274#msg98274 date=1229144178]
[quote author=PopeKyrillos link=topic=7434.msg98267#msg98267 date=1229142700]
You guys, think logically. Can sayedna really ban Abouna Zakaria from practicing the sacraments for what he is doing? He is evangelizing. I am sick of people on this site who criticize him and Abouna Makary the exorcist and say that they are both excommunicated and the rest of the clergy are against them etc... Abouna Makary was in Canada not too long ago at a seminary. Excommunicated? Obviously not. Although Abouna Zakaria is in a much more tight situation, sayedna cant basically take away his priesthood away from him for evangelizing. The only thing he might do is have him pray liturgies in secret and it could just be a cover up that he is excommunicated so that the church doesn't look bad and get blamed for what he does.
PK
what in the world are you considering in these words. 1st, EVANGELIZING is not a "sacrament" it's a duty to all Christians.
2nd, being a priest, means you are to OBEY your fathers, being the bishops and the Pope.
3rd, being excommunicated happens only when the church fathers see that the person is not saying the truth, the Orthodox faith anymore. and normally when that happens, we all GET TO KNOW about it with how the media works today.
Think about and don't just through words keda for nothing....
I dont really see where I said evangelizing was a sacrament. I never meant that. Do you have anything from a bishop or the pope that says Abouna Zakaria is excommunicated or a command to him to stop evangelizing? No, this is why i am against the criticism towards him. Unless I see or hear anything from the pope or even a bishop that tells abouna to stop doing what he is doing than everything that everyone else says is all in vain because it is not true. Your third point only confirms what I said saying that there is no way he can be excommunicated. Did Abouna Zakaria say anything against the Orthodox Faith or anything that was not true? No. Therefore, why would he be excommunicated?
PK
he is NOT excommunicated.
NO ONE can stop anyone from evangelizing. The is NOT stopping him from evangelizing, but rather he only stopped him from taking on his priest duties of the sacraments. This is not something new, it been that way for years. As i said before, what ever abouna is doing, it's under his own authority....and he have every right of it.
Okay, so where do you disagree with me? I feel like your posts are only confirming what I say so where does the disagreement come in place?
PK
1st, EVANGELIZING is not a "sacrament" it's a duty to all Christians.
Mina, I'd have to disagree with you. Evangelizing is NOT a duty, it's a calling. Evangelism is a gift that not all of us have...
Although I have no idea about the status of Abouna Zakaria, please keep in mind that not everyone who is a priest or bishop (or even pope for that matter) is in it for the work of the Lord. And many of you are mentioning that if Abouna Zakaria (keep in mind this does not only apply to Abouna Zakaria, but rather all clergy) was not staying true to the Orthodox faith anymore, then the pope would take action and we would know about it... I disagree with you. I've heard of many priests spreading Protestant beliefs and heresies, and no action has been taken. I've even been told that Fr. Zakaria himself has Protestant teachings. This is just what I have been *told* so I actually don't have solid proof...
Pray for me,
Mansour89
[quote author=minagir link=topic=7434.msg98274#msg98274 date=1229144178]
1st, EVANGELIZING is not a "sacrament" it's a duty to all Christians.
Mina, I'd have to disagree with you. Evangelizing is NOT a duty, it's a calling. Evangelism is a gift that not all of us have...
Matthew 28:19-20
19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age." Amen.
to summarize what is meant in the verse in one word..."Evangelism"
There more then one way to evangelize. just being a true Christian, in actions, in words, in writings...etc, makes people ask you about what you do, which is the fruit of Evangelism. i have to repeat this, He is NOT EXCOMMUNICATED. If he was, we would of known. I don't really trust what people would say about him. that's why we just have to only believe with what is proven, which i have said before. it's GENERAL, but that's all the truth that we have now.
NOW let me say this: WHY would we woryy about Abouna Zakaria.
Ya3ny we all left ALL THOSE PRIESTS AND BISHOPS and came to abouna Zakaria and said he's the one we listen to. COME ON PEOPLE......leave him to do his thing, and let's just do urs here...
Aren't they spreading the word of god, taking out demons, teaching people and converting them. My father watches them all the time, but it looks like they are not doing anything wrong... ???
I know many copts support him and see him as a hero but there are a couple of things that I don't like or at least think are inappropriate, in my humble opinion
The media show that it turned out to be where he's in the center of attention
the provocative way he talks, which sometimes is very disrespectful to moslims
the way he doesn't consider the fact that he's doing the coptic church in Egypt a lot of harm by doing this, he attacks muslims while living abroad while he should know that as a coptic priest he has great responsibility and is thus in a very sensitive position
His job is to take care of the his flock and teach them and help them grow spiritually, I don't think studying the quran and the hadiths are part of the curriculum for being a priest
I know his brother was murdered brutally by some muslims when he was younger, and this is what moved him to do what he's doing now...
Evangelizing (in the strict meaning of the word) is forbidden by law in Egypt, but most people don't see how a good deed can be evangelizing, how a person following God's rule in their life can be much stronger that a thousand words, there is no law against that...
So all christians, as ambassadors to the church can evangelize, no matter what..
(the verse said: so that they see your good deeds (not hear your words) and glorify your Father who is in heaven)
But respecting people's feelings and religions is also important and can't just be disregarded; there are always many ways to say one thing, and the way you speak can make a big difference
I don't mind ex-muslims or even christians who discuss Islam RESPECTFULLY and with good intentions, in fact, I think discussing the differnences in a fair and civilized manner would help a lot, but I don't think a priest should be doing that, especially an Egyptian coptic orthodox priest living abroad
As to father Makary, I don't know what to think really...
I'm amazed by how his 'exorcisms' are done in such a public sphere..
I heard from a trusted source, how when Abba Mina (former bishop of St Mina's monastery) had to perform an exorcism, he did it in a closed room with few spectators, out of humility..
Also, it seems very strange that there would be so many possessed people, maybe, most of them are just mentally ill or something... But anyways, it's also provocative how they only focus on the muslims and veiled women in church, as if it is to say that only muslims get possessed by the devil..
God bless you
Please pray for my weakness
I'm personally not a big fan of abouna zakaria...
I know many copts support him and see him as a hero but there are a couple of things that I don't like or at least think are inappropriate, in my humble opinion
The media show that it turned out to be where he's in the center of attention
the provocative way he talks, which sometimes is very disrespectful to moslims
the way he doesn't consider the fact that he's doing the coptic church in Egypt a lot of harm by doing this, he attacks muslims while living abroad while he should know that as a coptic priest he has great responsibility and is thus in a very sensitive position
His job is to take care of the his flock and teach them and help them grow spiritually, I don't think studying the quran and the hadiths are part of the curriculum for being a priest
I know his brother was murdered brutally by some muslims when he was younger, and this is what moved him to do what he's doing now...
Evangelizing (in the strict meaning of the word) is forbidden by law in Egypt, but most people don't see how a good deed can be evangelizing, how a person following God's rule in their life can be much stronger that a thousand words, there is no law against that...
So all christians, as ambassadors to the church can evangelize, no matter what..
(the verse said: so that they see your good deeds (not hear your words) and glorify your Father who is in heaven)
But respecting people's feelings and religions is also important and can't just be disregarded; there are always many ways to say one thing, and the way you speak can make a big difference
I don't mind ex-muslims or even christians who discuss Islam RESPECTFULLY and with good intentions, in fact, I think discussing the differnences in a fair and civilized manner would help a lot, but I don't think a priest should be doing that, especially an Egyptian coptic orthodox priest living abroad
As to father Makary, I don't know what to think really...
I'm amazed by how his 'exorcisms' are done in such a public sphere..
I heard from a trusted source, how when Abba Mina (former bishop of St Mina's monastery) had to perform an exorcism, he did it in a closed room with few spectators, out of humility..
Also, it seems very strange that there would be so many possessed people, maybe, most of them are just mentally ill or something... But anyways, it's also provocative how they only focus on the muslims and veiled women in church, as if it is to say that only muslims get possessed by the devil..
God bless you
Please pray for my weakness
OK, I thought about this issue for a long time. On the one hand, I hate it when people ridicule someone's religion. That's true. But first of all, after watching Abouna on Al Hayat for a long time, he is very polite.
I mean, he doesnt say or use words that that are offensive. THat's important.
Secondly, the Quran does in fact mention that Our Lord is just a mere prophet. And furthermore, muslims are beginning to believe that all the sayings in Isiah refer to the comming of Muhammed. These have to be answered. THey have to be answered, not with an aim of converting people to Christianity, but rather correcting fallacies where they appear concerning our faith.
If people are convinced that Muhammed is a false prophet, what business is that of anyone?
I honestly see it this way:
I doubt very much that one man can convert THOUSANDS of muslims to Christianity UNLESS their faith wasn't based on the truth.
So long as Abouna is curteous and polite, I have no problem with him. And so far, he has shown extreme self control and responded to attacks by viewers with kindness and christian moderation.
Pray for me,
abosefien
First of all, no I'm not ashamed of my religion, to the contrary, it's a huge honour to be able to call yourself a christian, a disciple of christ.
But in this particular situation it is not the muslims who attack us, be we who attack them.
How hypocrite is this when priests like Fr Makary Younan demand the government to stop books by muslim clerics/scholars that attack Christianity and the Bible (cf. Omara) but then a coptic 'priest' (don't know his exact position in the church) is attacking Islam.
In Egypt we plead for each religion to deal with its own congregation and it's own beliefs, but yet outside of Egypt they go on and attack Islam...
As I said before, I don't mind discussing religions in a civilized and respectful manner, but this is NOT THE JOB OF CLERGY, especially not in the sensitive position of copts and especially not when it's hypocrite to ask the muslims to stop insulting our religion and then go insult them ourselves once we go (escape) out of Egypt
Botros told me in our first interview, "When I started to preach this way many or most Christians refused the style. They were afraid. For 14 centuries we [as Middle East Christians] are under the threat of the sword of Islam. So they were afraid and told me, 'They will kill us! They will destroy our houses!' But after I preached the gospel and spoke in this manner for years now, many of them now say, 'We are no longer ashamed of our religion when Muslims attack us.'"
First of all, no I'm not ashamed of my religion, to the contrary, it's a huge honour to be able to call yourself a christian, a disciple of christ.
But in this particular situation it is not the muslims who attack us, be we who attack them.
How hypocrite is this when priests like Fr Makary Younan demand the government to stop books by muslim clerics/scholars that attack Christianity and the Bible (cf. Omara) but then a coptic 'priest' (don't know his exact position in the church) is attacking Islam.
In Egypt we plead for each religion to deal with its own congregation and it's own beliefs, but yet outside of Egypt they go on and attack Islam...
As I said before, I don't mind discussing religions in a civilized and respectful manner, but this is NOT THE JOB OF CLERGY, especially not in the sensitive position of copts and especially not when it's hypocrite to ask the muslims to stop insulting our religion and then go insult them ourselves once we go (escape) out of Egypt
Thank you Godislove,
I agree 100%. At least muslims have the integrity to stand up for truth in many issues that we as Christians brush aside because it doesn't involve us.
akhadna el baraka... neshkor Allah!
I know abouna in a personal level... Leave abouna out of this, i don't think the website should talk about abouna, because it defies the whole "agreement" I don't think we should talk about him in a "public" forum about him!
First, and with all due respect to you and Abouna, we have the right to openly discuss Abouna Zakaria and his teachings because 1) he is doing things that even His Holiness Pope Shenouda does not agree with 2) what he says affects other peoples perception of us Copts (whether for better or worse) 3) it is possible that what he's saying makes life tougher for Copts in Egypt and 4) debate and dialogue is a fundamental part of the traditions and history of the Coptic Orthodox Church.
Personally, I think Godislove260 makes important points. Any discussion of the Muslim-Christian issue should be done respectfully - Baba Kyrollos and Pope Shenouda provide perfect examples of such. First, we can lead by example and let others see that we are the correct faith (as well as by the countless miracles, Mary apparitions etc). Second, respectful inter-faith dialogue also go a long way.
As for Abouna Zakaria, well im sure he may be a nice person but what he says is extremely provocative and even offensive. I certainly dont like it when Imams talk about Christianity in that way. I've heard Abouna talking about wiping out passages from the Koran and apologies being made to the Copts for the Arab invasion of Egypt 1,300 years ago. Sorry, but that's just a joke to me. Such talk only divides - rather than unites. Moreover, when he makes such radical statements the extreme side of Islam can take them, play them to Egyptian Muslims and use it against us (i.e. this is the Coptic sentiment - they hate Islam and Muslims etc). That only makes life more difficult for Copts in Egypt. There have been many periods in Egyptian history when Copts and Muslims had peaceful and honest relations, however right now things are not the best and I believe Abouna is helping make things worse. The fact that Abouna is out of Egypt is also a problem. It's like when the Copts in America held a conference about the Coptic situation in Egypt - what a disaster for them to do! No wonder they angered everyone from Pope Shenouda to al-Ikhwan. Being out of Egypt also helps feed the image/idea that Abouna is being paid off by anti-Muslim groups (or pro-Jewish groups for that matter) and so harms his credibility.
As for the actual Muslims converting to Christianity because of Abouna, well I dont think any of us would say that was a bad thing. But, my problem is with the method. I just feel Abouna is wrong in making sweeping statements, infuriating Muslims and so making things harder for other Copts. Instead, effort would be better spent on organisations like Coptic Orphans that serve Muslims and Christians and so make us an example for others to follow.
Overall, I think the three best examples of how we should deal with Muslims are Baba Kyrollos, Abouna Bishoy Kamel and Pope Shenouda.
Rabana maakum,
Matt
Botros told me in our first interview, "When I started to preach this way many or most Christians refused the style. They were afraid. For 14 centuries we [as Middle East Christians] are under the threat of the sword of Islam. So they were afraid and told me, 'They will kill us! They will destroy our houses!' But after I preached the gospel and spoke in this manner for years now, many of them now say, 'We are no longer ashamed of our religion when Muslims attack us.'"
First of all, no I'm not ashamed of my religion, to the contrary, it's a huge honour to be able to call yourself a christian, a disciple of christ.
But in this particular situation it is not the muslims who attack us, be we who attack them.
How hypocrite is this when priests like Fr Makary Younan demand the government to stop books by muslim clerics/scholars that attack Christianity and the Bible (cf. Omara) but then a coptic 'priest' (don't know his exact position in the church) is attacking Islam.
In Egypt we plead for each religion to deal with its own congregation and it's own beliefs, but yet outside of Egypt they go on and attack Islam...
As I said before, I don't mind discussing religions in a civilized and respectful manner, but this is NOT THE JOB OF CLERGY, especially not in the sensitive position of copts and especially not when it's hypocrite to ask the muslims to stop insulting our religion and then go insult them ourselves once we go (escape) out of Egypt
Whats up bro,
Im new here but i like the discussions that are going on so I decided to join :-)
first of all let me just say that it isn't hypocritical at all, what abouna Makary is demanding. If you lived in Egypt or know what goes on there, as I'm sure you already have a good idea, you will know that not only do books come out every year attacking copts, but some even take it as far as to make it "hallal" to kill copts. I don't agree 100% with Abouna Zakria's methods, but if you truly think about it, if this guy is saving people from hell, then we shouldn't really judge him. Abouna Zakaria is fighting fire with fire, which isn't going to make him a fan favorite but at least he gets people to think about their own religion. He points out the most embarrassing things in their religion, which at least gets them to start thinking. I think its a fair assumption to say that most of them don't really know their own religion, he kind of opens the light on some of these issues. If anyone knows, that most times, not always, people who start asking too many questions in islam get labeled as a kafar, because they are hand-fed since they have been children in what to believe. They are also taught not to question their believes. Mind you, if a someone in my church started questioning their beliefs, A priest will sit down and talk to him or her, and not condemn them for asking too many questions. Abouna Zakaria always documents his sources and he never makes anything up, while on the other hand most of those books that come out attacking copts in egypt are undocumented, full of hateful opinion, biased, and untrue. And yes he does have a show where he talks about the bible and Christ only!! I did notice that he does have some protestant type influence, in the sense that he tells people that as long as you accept christ in your heart that you will be good to go.
I watched one of Abouna Makary's bible studies and all i could say was WOW !!! never seen anything like it. Abouna is very proactive, he prays and sings non stop during the bible study. moreover, i don't think anyone here is suggesting that only muslims get possessed, as I have seen Christians get possessed as well. But think about it, if your not taking communion, confessing, and going to church, praying, growing further from god etc. chances are, as a christian, the door could be open for possession, now imagine if you will, someone who has never been baptized, take communion, confessed, etc. its all to easy for an evil spirit at this point to take over a body.
peace and love :)
second, I am very much aware of the books some muslims write about the copts, and if you look closely you will see that I mentioned them in my former post
However, the hypocrisy lies in the fact that in Egypt Copts plea for each religion to 'mind its own business' but outside of Egypt, some Copts have taken it upon themselves to talk about Islam, and to critizise all that is Egyptian and all that is Muslim...
So it does seem somewhat hypocritical to me, but that's just my opinion, I have seen websites where people speak about our fellow Egyptians in a very bad manner, it's shameful really how much someone can hate their country...
About abouna Makary, I only said I have my doubts about those videos and those exorcisms, especially when they seem to focus on veiled muslim women to show ya3ni that muslims are all possessed by the devil and it might come over somewhat offensive..
Finally I would like to say, we, as Copts, are called to a life of holiness and virtue, so no matter what some Muslims do or say, we should not let them get to us and make us do things that aren't correct or in line with our religion...
God bless
Hello, first of all, it's sis ;)
second, I am very much aware of the books some muslims write about the copts, and if you look closely you will see that I mentioned them in my former post
However, the hypocrisy lies in the fact that in Egypt Copts plea for each religion to 'mind its own business' but outside of Egypt, some Copts have taken it upon themselves to talk about Islam, and to critizise all that is Egyptian and all that is Muslim...
So it does seem somewhat hypocritical to me, but that's just my opinion, I have seen websites where people speak about our fellow Egyptians in a very bad manner, it's shameful really how much someone can hate their country...
About abouna Makary, I only said I have my doubts about those videos and those exorcisms, especially when they seem to focus on veiled muslim women to show ya3ni that muslims are all possessed by the devil and it might come over somewhat offensive..
Finally I would like to say, we, as Copts, are called to a life of holiness and virtue, so no matter what some Muslims do or say, we should not let them get to us and make us do things that aren't correct or in line with our religion...
God bless
lol i'm sorry sis, ur def right, you do have a case. i just think that most copts when they get to leave egypt, they can finally speak openly to others about islam or about persecution. i think its a result of people being persecuted that they start to criticize as soon as they get the chance. but we are called to defend our religion and beliefs.
peace and love
peace and love
what is the 'agreement'?
do our church leaders not want us to discuss this?
if not, i will say nothing, but i would like to know how i can find out about this official agreement not to discuss it.
the last thing i want is for anyone (esp abouna zacharias) to suffer or have trouble because of our words, which are completely public, so i can understand they could cause problems. i don't want to upset HH or any of the bishops either, they do really difficult work for our Lord.
i also believe that discussion is often useful, hence the question.