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Evolution and more.

johannessolomonjohannessolomon
edited December 1969 in Faith Issues
Hello my Coptic friends,
I hadn't used tasbeha.org forums for quite some while now and I was hoping for some Ershad (help) on a specific issue. I have a teacher at school, science teacher (you can see where I am going with this), she was a Christian, she claims that she stood up for science because she felt science had more backups and evidence than the bible. She is very affectionate towards the environment. She is always supportive towards causes like global warming, animal extinction, ext. But she always backups the evolution theory. I also believe in "evolving," but not to this extent: [center](http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b9/Human-evolution.jpg)[/center]
I believe the fact that humans are loosing their wisdom teeth because we are consuming softer foods. I believe that diseases like the annual flu does "evolve" so that it fights our immune system by DNA exchanging information. I need a few facts, proven facts; I have some that should be convincing. I also need backups on a few before I tell her them. Like, I need to make sure that humans are turned into dust after death. I mean minerals found in dust. Most importantly I need a verse, or paragraph in the bible that commands us, from God, to care for the world he has given us. A list, with many controversies that science and the bible both agree upon would be even better.
[right]God Bless[/right] [right]John :P[/right][center]† † †[/center]

Comments

  • elsi70x7elsi70x7
    Hi Johannes,
    I think what set a light bulb off in my head was when a Theologian said "GOD is Science".
    I think man tries to understand the mysteries of creation and leaving GOD out comes up with all types of fables.
    St. Paul said to the Romans "Ever since GOD created the world, his invisible qualities, both his external power and his divine nature, have been clearly seen. Man can perceive them in the things that GOD has made." (Romans 1:20)

    The growing together of Science and Theology is important for human development. The reason is that man by his nature is soul and body. Thereby he needs material and spiritual satisfaction.
    The Word of GOD says "If you do not love man whom you do see, how do you love GOD whom you do not see."  In general from the teaching of Jesus we learn both spiritual and material value. Jesus said, "Make the people sit down. Now there was much grass in the place; so the men sat down, in number about five thousand. Jesus then took the loaves, and when he ahd given thanks, he distributed them to those who were seated; so also the fish, as much as they wanted." John 6:10-12. By preaching this the Church demonstrates the Kingdom of GOD among the communities. In this way is it not possible for the teaching of Jesus Christ to show how science and religion can be related and complement each other? ............exerpt from the book 'The Order Of Marriage and Social Ethics' by kesis Kefyalew Merahi.

    "Both Science and Religion can grow together in harmony. Of course their respective worlds are different and their methods are dissimilar. Science investigates, Religion interprets. Science gives man knowledge, Religion makes man wise. Science deals mainly with facts, Religion deals mainly with values. The two are not rivals. They are complementary. Science keeps Religion from sinking into crippling irrationalism, Religion prevents Science from falling into the marsh of materialism and moral nihilism"......... 'Strength to Love' Martin Luther King (1968(p.11

    You know Johannes, when I heard the words "GOD is Science"; I thought...O.K thats all I need to know! Whatever 'evolution' story they have I can say GOD still created it, but then we had a talk about evolution in Bible study and our Priest pointed out that those storys are untrue we know when we were formed and it wasn't billons and millions of years ago; so if you have a Coptic Priest or one of the sister, daughter Church Priests you can talk to you should. For as Kesis Merahi quotes in his book again...."For the priest's lips should keep knowledge, and they should seek the law at his mouth: for he is the messenger of the Lord of hosts." (Malachi 2:7)
                                                    Glory and thanks be to GOD   

    Hope this helps.
  • johannessolomonjohannessolomon
    Thank you for replying. Yes, that is all true. But you are speaking to me as if I already believe in God. Let's say I didn't know who God was. I need you to first prove God, then use him to continue to help me. But my teacher obviously, lost trust in him. I think we first need to either prove God, or use her type of thinking, science, to clarify everything.
  • peterfarringtonpeterfarrington
    I am not sure that it is possible to prove that God exists to someone, or if that was possible, which I am doubtful about, then I am not sure that the God which we proved to exist would be our personal Trinity, but would not rather be a vague impersonal force.

    Likewise I am not sure that science can know or say anything about that which matters most.

    There are some books which might interest and intrigue someone from a scientific background, and it might be worth finding the best of these and offering to lend one to your teacher. But what is of much more value is that you pray and fast for this person. At some deep level they must come to discover their need of Christ and must meet Him in a personal way. This is always possible through constant and prolongued prayer according to the will of God.

    I would suggest that for your own knowledge and information that you go to Amazon and search on 'Christianity Science' and there are plenty of books there which look really interesting. I might even get one myself. But I am not convinced that it is possible to persuade someone into faith. You may shake their own arguments and perhaps annoy them :-) but it is prayer and your own life lived out before them that makes the difference.

    In Christ

    Peter
  • clayclay
    Hi. I have read a few books on this, and currently the most popular books are:
    "The Re-enchantment of Nature" by Alister McGrath and How Blind is the Watchmaker by Neil Broom.

    I really enjoyed the latter. It has an intriguing appendix (which you should reach first!), that talks about the history of Science, and the rising of Naturalism. It describes at length the philosophy by the devout Christians who championed Science from the crutches of Aristotelian Science. He soberly discusses biological machines, and he uses very interesting analogies to help you grasp some really complex stuff. I mean I am a gifted person when it comes to science and mathematics, but there was quite a few things that need clarifying, and I think Bloom does an exceptional job. I think Bloom remarkably demarcates the limits of Naturalism, and helps the reader understand how foistering Scientists like Dawkin's may have came to their position.

    Alister McGrath- what can I say- he is an exquisite philosopher, and hopefully can change the landscape of academic philosophy to be balanced when discussing Christian philosophy, and hopefully retard or bring to naught the omnipresent rise of Naturalism and Darwanism in carving our conscience.
  • binC
    Hello Johannes(John),

    http://www.godandscience.org

    Try to pick what u need. U may find some facts. This site may not be even Orthodox.

  • johannessolomonjohannessolomon
    [sup][sup]Thank you binC, Clay, and peterfarrington. The website was help binC, I need scientific evidence. IT EXISTS! Something like this:

    How were humans created? Scientific Answer: Evolution. What did we evolve from?Scientific Answer: Plants/Animals. Where did they come from? Scientific Answer: Elements.Where did the Elements come from? Scientific Answer: Big Bang Theory. What caused the Big Bang?
    No one knows...*cough* GOD! *cough* Stuff like this would be cool. Some things that basically give no other choice besides God. Here is something that came up:

    Scientific Question: Women and Men have the same exact amount of ribs. Scientific Answer: True. Scientific Question: Then how did God take one from Adam and make Eve. Scientific Theory: That must mean that men have 11 pairs of ribs and women must have 1 pair. Scientifically Proven: False. ITS A SPIRITUAL SYMBOLISM!!!
    How on earth do I explain that to an Atheist?[/sup][/sup]
  • peterfarringtonpeterfarrington
    The trouble is that lots of Christians don't accept evolution and the big bang as a fact - I don't for instance, and many scientists do not accept that before the big bang was God.

    Also God took a rib from Adam, he did not take it from all men. It may well be, if we want to be strictly literalist, that Adam had a rib less than his sons. I am not sure we can take from the account that the genetic structure of Adam was changed to give him one rib less. I actually tend towards a literalism when reading the Genesis accounts.

    I don't believe you can prove God to an atheist. You must prove God exists by your life.

    'Let your light so shine before men that they may see your good works and glorify God'.

    Peter
  • johannessolomonjohannessolomon
    Guys. Anyone need a laugh? Read this: Its addicting.

    http://www.evolutionisstupid.com/

    haha. its like PG-13 tho...so be mature -_-
  • clayclay
    Charles Darwin is a great scientist. He had his shady dealings, like the way he rushed his publication to beat another scientist, who tried collaborating him. However, he humbly discussed the limits of his theory, as well as where one may find flaws. It has been this that has been the springboard for the contemporary organisation of scientific thought and empirical evidence of 'Intelligent Design'. I don't think we should tolerate sites that continue to caricature him, as humans did around the early 20th century. That truth should measured by philosophical consequences rather than the evidence, is ridiculous. St. Augustine, and Origen would have been ashamed at how we misread the Bible. Luckily, like all the great Christian scientists of the past, who are to be thanked for the rise of modern science, we have every reason again to think that evolution will always fail to explain "higher questions", and cannot explain why those "higher questions" we seek by spirituality can even exist. For this I refer you to the text by Neil Broom.
  • SusySusy
    I know you want evidence and facts......but you can also approach this in a logical manner.

    What are we to loose being Christian? Some kind of advanced intellectual level only atheists can reach?

    True intellect is believing in something that is not tangible...something we can't see.

    In my opinion, it takes an abundance of mental and emotional stability to truly believe in God, more then any Atheist can comprehend.

    Think about this...
    I would rather live my whole life believing there is a god and die to find out there isn't, then live my life not believing in god only to die and find out there IS!

    We as Christians should have moved beyond this point....but it makes perfect sense.

  • SusySusy
    I would also like to add....


    Evolutionists love to use this argument against Christians...
    Christians think that the world is going to end anyways...so they don't take care of it.

    I was raised with the Idea that Global warming was happening because we as human beings are not taking care of the earth.

    but wait....here comes some scientific evidence lol...
    A few years back they discovered that the temperature on Mars is increasing at the same rate that the temperature on earth is.

    Here is the article that I read...
    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article1720024.ece

    Now I am sure they lack SUV's and Hairspray on Mars....so maybe Global warming is inevitable....maybe we have nothing/little to do with this issue.

    So let's not get all hung up on the environment here lol.
  • binC
                              +++

    Hello friends,

      God does not impose Himself to know Him. He is a God of freewill. He does not even push the idea of No God. He leave us to our lusts. For some people knowing that God exists is like a blow to their ideal freedom. For these people God won't stand as an obstacle to their dream of No God in their life. There is a saying, " Becareful of what u wish for b/c it might come true." God gave them their wish. He walked away out of their heart. He picked up all His goods from their mind. He covered His traces from their soul. He gave them what they want.
                                      Psalm 10:4
    The wicked, through the pride of his countenance, will not seek after God: God is not in all his thoughts.

      God is not like a sun that the whole world know and admire. It is not His Character to show off or to prove anything of Himself. For those who are humble and pure in the heart He has always left His witnesses.

                                    Jeremiah 29:13
    You will seek me and find me when you seek me with all your heart.

                                    Isaiah 58:2
    For day after day they seek me out; they seem eager to know my ways, as if they were a nation that does what is right and has not forsaken the commands of its God. They ask me for just decisions and seem eager for God to come near them.

                                    Proverbs 8:17
    [flash=200,200]http://I love those who love me, and those who seek me find me.[/flash]

                                    Matthew 5:8
    Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.

                                    Psalm 14:2
    The LORD looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any that did understand, and seek God.

                                    Psalm 53:2
    God looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any that did understand, that did seek God.


    The Law of freewill forbids God from revealing Himself to the whole world. The Law of free will needs our freewill for anything spiritual to come to our life. Faith and religion is not like a river, land and sun to be given to all but to those who really want it and ask for it.
                               






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