growth of blasphemy

moderndaypharaoh

Im getting extremely concerned with the growth of blasphemy among church leaders. Don't get me wrong I think Sisi is doing more for us than prior presidents but I dont think he is worthy of being called Christ by Anba Pola or the savior mentioned in the book of Isaiah by fr makary younan. Id it true that the Ikhwan initiated Maspero as baba Tawadros said or is that false statements just to appease the regime? What can we do to combat these statements from being taught in the church

Khepra

I'm sorry. What did the Bishop say about the president?

moderndaypharaoh

That he is the equivolence of the christ

minatasgeel

@moderndaypharaoh

I think you are making a big deal out of it. NOTHING of such statements is being taught in churches. Concerning HGB Boula comments, i really think he said it by mistake. I think he meant to say that El-Sisi was the 'angel' and Christ was the one on the altar already, present with us. But despite that, i really think he should of said anything. His grace is not the speaker on behalf of the Church. Last I checked, it was AnbA Markos of Shobra Elkhema.

About Fr. Makari's comments....it's simply an over-exaggeration. But tell me, which egyptian have you met, who lives in Egypt and doesn't exaggerate everything that takes place?!

moderndaypharaoh

@minatasgeel thank you for clerrifying that statement. However what about the maspero statement?

minatasgeel

About Maspero, i might be biased to say that we just need to "not talk about it." Just for the sake of progress int he future. Ya3ny we know what happened, the government knows what happened and what was the mistake. But then we don't want to really say it. I think the Pope's statement was unclear and i believe he meant to do that. 

minasoliman

I can't believe Anba Bola would say something like that. Even if he said "Sisi is the angel and Christ is present in the altar". it's not so much the blasphemy I worry about, but the naivety and supposed idiocy that comes with statements like these. There are more intelligent and professional ways to praise Sisi, and I certainly do praise him for protecting the Copts as well as visiting the cathedral on Christmas.

moderndaypharaoh

There is no doubt Sisi no matter how democratic or undemocratic he is (arab countries cant have democracy in my opinion) shaping up to be the best president for the Copts. However in order to maintain church integrity we have to keep religion and politics separate. We still dont know how long this Coptic support will last

Remnkemi

Sisi is not simply visiting the cathedral on Christmas. He is definitely not protecting the Copts enough. But worse than all this is that we Copts are blinded by the impropriety.

Here is what I wrote on my friend's FB when he said the Egyptian President's visit was a beautiful scene. This was on Jan 8. I got one like. Apparently, no one agreed with my assessment. But I was right all along.

"Beautiful scene? Seriously? (While this may seem I am picking on you Peter, this post is meant for everyone who thinks the President’s visit was something good. It wasn't.)

If President Obama walked into Baron Hirsch Synagogue in Memphis Tennessee (acknowledged by some as the flagship of American Judaism), on Rosh Hashanah or Yum Kippur unannounced while in the middle of their prayers, would there be jubilation or holy anger for defiling their temple? Would Obama walk in unexpected, interrupt worship, and give a purely political, non-religious speech in Mecca, Saudi Arabi during the Hajj Pilgrimage and expect the Islamic world to be ok with his intrusion and defilement of their holy place? Why are the Copts so different being tolerant for desecration of their holy feasts and holy places?

Sisi interrupted one of the most important Coptic festivals to propagate his political influence over the Copts and we swallowed it up like he was the Messiah. It’s bad enough that most churches throughout the world have abandoned canons that forbid Christians to pray with non-Christians. Do we practice what we preach when we say “At your mystical supper, O Son of God, accept me and make me a partaker, FOR I WILL NOT REVEAL YOUR MYSTERY TO YOUR ENEMIES NOR WILL I GIVE YOU A KISS LIKE JUDAS.” (Thursday of Pascha hymn). Are we simply uttering empty words? Are not acts placing priority on political persons (such as having non-Christian representatives of the government seated in the front row) a 21st century kiss of Judas? 

St James says “Show me your faith without your works and I will show you my faith by my works.” (James 2:18). Judas brought a mob entourage from the chief priests and the elders and betrayed Jesus with a kiss. This was Judas’ work. What does this say about his faith? Christ gave us the answer. The front row placement of non-Christian governmental representatives during a sacrament is the work. The massive hysteria by Copts at the president’s arrival with a similar entourage to politicize during a sacrament is the work. What does it say about our faith? 

Do you think all the Copts shouting “we love you Sisi”, jumping on their chairs, clapping in jubilation over an earthly president would do the same thing for Christ the eternal King who is already on the altar? The coming of Sisi has altogether overshadowed and replaced the coming of Christ in 2015. We have become so spiritually dead that we rejoice in the intrusion and corruption of the world and ignore the real beautiful scene on the altar."

Khepra

Amen. Amen.

minasoliman

I highly doubt this was a surprise visit by the President.  Sure the people were surprised, but I think the bishops coordinated it, probably with the time given.  With that in mind, it would seem to me the bishops are the ones who are at fault for this.  They could have coordinated it differently if they cared about the middle of the prayers.  It seems to me the interruption came in the middle of the Pauline response, which seemed to many people an "okay" time for the interruption.  I understand your point and I do agree this is not the most ideal in coordinating this visit, but you have to admit, with such a powerful political figure, it does make a suggestion that he cares to visit.  He is not running for office; he's already in office.  So I don't see what he has to gain from this visit (that and his recent criticism of Al Azhar and calls to reform Islam).  He's really setting himself up to be quite unpopular with Islamists, and so I find that somewhat refreshing, despite the liturgical interruption.

As for the Coptic people and their reaction, well, they are very ignorant folks unfortunately.  When you have Coptic demonstrations with shouts of "with our souls and our blood, we defend the Cross" (and no priest or bishop has has yet to correct them publicly on this), it's no surprise Sisi becomes more of a superstar than the presence of Christ in the Eucharist.

May the Lord have mercy on His Church and give her the strength to carry on in her struggles or supports she may receive.

ophadece

@Remenkimi,
extremely and exquisitely said.. bravo..
oujai khan ebshois

cyril

Rem +1