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DEATH PENALTY...
does the coptic orthodox church believe in the death penalty?
just curious
i'd like to hear your comments
---mazza---
just curious
i'd like to hear your comments
---mazza---
Comments
Forever,
Coptic Servent
Here is H.G. Bishop Youssef's answer to this question as found on suscopts.org
I guess it is not as simple as you think Coptic Servent. The truth is that the Coptic Church DOES support the death penalty.
Here is H.G. Bishop Youssef's answer to this question as found on suscopts.org
Wow KBibo8, that suprised me, thank you for that interesting quote!
Forever,
Coptic Servent
its just because in australia, if you have been following the news- there was this 25yr old who trafficed drugs to Singapore and was sentenced to death by haging- he was hung yesterday. it was a really tragic event and
i just thought, doesnt god forgive sinners?
like the right thief,
st moses the black
they were all sinners like that 25yr old but doesnt god forgive so how can we- the coptic church, allow such things when we instict love, peace and forgiveness?
http://www.saint-mary.net/books/tencomv3.pdf
mazza,
Capital punishment has nothing to do with a lack of forgiveness or compassion; it is to do with the authorities' responsibility to preserve society from moral corruption - a responsibility that is divinely instituted as the numerous verses in His Grace's article clearly prove. Such measures do not merely, or even primarily, serve a punitive purpose, but more importantly they serve public policy purposes also, which are based on certain principles such as the principle of deterrence.
The examples you bring forth do not prove any contradiction whatsoever. God certainly forgave the right hand thief, however the right hand thief nonetheless served his due punishment, and acknowledged this himself, when said: "We are punished justly, for we are getting what our deeds deserve. But this man has done nothing wrong." (Luke 23:41)
With respect to St Moses the Black, it is more or less the same story. Though St Moses the Black underwent a drastic conversion from sinner to Saint, he nonetheless acknowledged the justice in the manner of his death (by the sword) by virtue of the sins he committed in his past life (whereby he in fact murdered others by the sword).
After the passing of time our saint became much advanced in years, while he was sitting with St Makar, St Makar said that he saw a crown of martyrdom, falling on the head of one of those seated with him and seven other crowns for other brothers, St Moses replied Perhaps it is I, for the Lord said "For all they that take the sword shall perish by the sword".
Source: http://www.ains.net.au/~johnh/Album/Saints/St_Moses.htm
I'm sure if Van Nguyen was truly repentent that the Lord would have forgiven Him; this does not however contradict the fact that due justice was given to him, and that the divinely instituted Government of Singapore had the right to do what they did.
True peace, love, and compassion does not compromise the authorities' duty to eradicate and prevent all forms of moral corruption. It is in fact perfectly in sync with it.
EpNomos EnTaio,
As His Grace's article clearly proves, the authorities are divinely governed institutions that excercise the God-given authority that is derivatively acquired, rather than unjustly usurped, from God.
i just wanted to know if the coptic church believes in the death penalty, thats all
what about if its ur job to kill that person... are you doing wrong? like the people who hanged van ngyuen, the 25 yr old dude who trafficked the drugs to singapore... he was hung by someone, is that person comitting a sin? (**crime) or is it not wrong at all coz its his job/?
get me? im SO confusing :P
aniways
God Bless,
Jenny ;)
.
In the same time, DP does not have to be imposed, it is not a must from a christian point of view, and another dimension related to the society should be taken into account.
My concern with the death penality is its irreversibility, and mistakes happen according to the shortcoming of the judicial system. There was a study about the number of wrong verdicts regarding innocent men that have been proven not guilty based on the advancement of scientific crime investigation methods such as DNA tests. In Egypt, five years ago, an actress confessed the murder of her husband under severe torture. Just last year the real murderer confessed his crime. She was sentenced to jail, but she could have been executed.
So while the DP cannot be refuted based on religious arguments, it can be challenged based on limitations in crime investigations.
Did Virginia execute an innocent man?
RICHMOND, Virginia (AP) -- With less than two weeks left in Gov. Mark R. Warner's term, time is running out for him to arrange DNA testing that could determine whether Virginia sent an innocent man to the electric chair in 1992.
If the tests show Roger Keith Coleman did not rape and murder his sister-in-law in 1981, it will mark the first time in the United States an executed person has been scientifically proved innocent, say death penalty opponents, who are keenly aware that such a result could have a powerful effect on public opinion.
"I think it would be the final straw for a lot of people who are on the fence on the death penalty," said Richard Dieter, executive director of the Death Penalty Information Center in Washington.
A Gallup poll in October found that 64 percent of Americans support the death penalty. That is the lowest level in 27 years, down from a high of 80 percent in 1994.
Negotiations over DNA tests
Warner -- a potential Democratic presidential contender for 2008 -- hopes to complete negotiations over how the test would be conducted before his term ends January 14, said spokesman Kevin Hall.
Coleman was convicted and sentenced to death in 1982 for the murder of 19-year-old Wanda McCoy, his wife's sister, who was found raped, stabbed and nearly beheaded in her home in the coal mining town of Grundy.
The case drew international attention as the well-spoken Coleman pleaded his case on talk shows and in magazines and newspapers. Time magazine featured the coal miner on its cover. Pope John Paul II tried to block the execution. Then-Gov. L. Douglas Wilder's office was flooded with thousands of calls and letters of protest from around the world.
Coleman's attorneys argued that he did not have time to commit the crime, that tests showed semen from two men was found inside McCoy and that another man bragged about murdering her. Coleman was executed on May 20, 1992.
"An innocent man is going to be murdered tonight," the 33-year-old said moments before he was electrocuted. "When my innocence is proven, I hope America will realize the injustice of the death penalty as all other civilized countries have."
Sample in California
DNA tests in 1990 placed Coleman within the 2 percent of the population who could have produced the semen at the crime scene. Additional blood typing put Coleman within a group consisting of 0.2 percent of the population. His lawyers said the expert they hired to conduct the test misinterpreted the results.
Four newspapers and Centurion Ministries, a New Jersey organization that investigated Coleman's case and became convinced of his innocence, sought a court order to have the evidence retested. The Virginia Supreme Court declined to order the testing in 2002, so Centurion Ministries asked Warner to intervene.
Warner's decision has been held up in part because the sample is not in the state's possession, Hall said. The evidence is being stored in a Richmond, California, lab by the forensic scientist who conducted the initial DNA tests, Edward Blake.
Blake, who has kept the sample frozen since 1990, has balked at returning the evidence to Virginia, arguing that testing should be conducted at his lab. He has said that Virginia has a vested interest in tests that would either confirm Coleman's guilt or be inconclusive, since a result showing Coleman was innocent could tarnish the state's criminal justice system.
Blake has also argued that transporting the fragile evidence -- about one-fifth of a drop of sperm -- could destroy it.
Warner, Blake and Centurion Ministries have been trying to negotiate an arrangement under which an independent lab would take possession of the sample and test it, Hall said.
"It certainly is the governor's desire that an acceptable procedure be hammered out before we leave office," Hall said.
DA: Mountain of evidence
If the parties cannot come to an agreement before Warner leaves, the issue will fall to Democratic Gov.-elect Tim Kaine, who supports DNA retesting in the case, said Delacey Skinner, a Kaine spokeswoman.
Tom Scott, who helped prosecute the case, said he has no objection to retesting the DNA and is confident doing so would confirm Coleman's guilt -- provided the sample has been properly preserved and not tampered with.
"If the integrity of the sample has been violated in some way, we're going to have an inconclusive result, which isn't going to settle anything," he said.
Scott said a mountain of evidence points to Coleman as the killer: There was no sign of forced entry at McCoy's house, leading investigators to believe she knew her attacker; Coleman was previously convicted of the attempted rape of a teacher and was charged with exposing himself to a librarian two months before the murder; a pubic hair found on McCoy's body was consistent with Coleman's hair; and the original DNA tests placed him within a tiny fraction of the population who could have left semen at the scene.
Coleman also failed a lie detector test hours before his execution.
"When you add all of this evidence together, it's a connect-the-dots case," he said. "In my mind, there just wasn't any question about it."
Copyright 2006 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.
any opinions..
New DNA tests confirmed the guilt of a man who went to his death in Virginia's electric chair in 1992 proclaiming his innocence, the governor said Thursday.
The case had been closely watched by both sides in the death penalty debate because no executed convict in the United States has ever been exonerated by scientific testing.
The tests, ordered by the governor last month, prove Roger Keith Coleman was guilty of the 1981 rape and murder of his sister-in-law, Gov. Mark R. Warner said.
Coleman was convicted and sentenced to death in 1982 for the murder of 19-year-old Wanda McCoy, his wife's sister, who was found raped, stabbed and nearly beheaded in her home in the coal mining town of Grundy.
The report from the Centre of Forensic Sciences in Toronto concluded there was almost no conceivable doubt that Coleman was the source of the sperm found in the victim.
"The probability that a randomly selected individual unrelated to Roger Coleman would coincidentally share the observed DNA profile is estimated to be 1 in 19 million," the report said.
A finding of innocence would have been explosive news and almost certainly would have had a powerful effect on the public's attitude toward capital punishment. Death penalty opponents have argued for years that the risk of a grave and irreversible mistake by the criminal justice system is too great to allow capital punishment.
"We have sought the truth using DNA technology not available at the time the commonwealth carried out the ultimate criminal sanction," Warner said in a statement. "The confirmation that Roger Coleman's DNA was present reaffirms the verdict and the sanction. Again, my prayers are with the family of Wanda McCoy at this time."
Initial DNA and blood tests in 1990 placed Coleman within the 0.2 percent of the population who could have produced the semen at the crime scene. But his lawyers said the expert they hired to conduct those initial DNA tests misinterpreted the results.
The governor agreed to a new round of more sophisticated DNA tests in one of his last official acts. Warner, who has been mentioned as a possible Democratic candidate for president in 2008, leaves office on Saturday.
Coleman's case drew international attention as the well-spoken inmate pleaded his case on talk shows and in magazines and newspapers. Time magazine featured the coal miner on its cover. Pope John Paul II tried to block the execution. Then-Gov. L. Douglas Wilder's office was flooded with thousands of calls and letters of protest from around the world.
Coleman's attorneys argued that he did not have time to commit the crime, that tests showed semen from two men was found inside McCoy and that another man bragged about murdering her.
"An innocent man is going to be murdered tonight," the 33-year-old said moments before he was electrocuted on May 20, 1992. "When my innocence is proven, I hope America will realize the injustice of the death penalty as all other civilized countries have."
Four newspapers and Centurion Ministries, a New Jersey organization that investigated Coleman's case and became convinced of his innocence, sought a court order to have the evidence retested. The Virginia Supreme Court declined to order the testing in 2002, so Centurion Ministries asked Warner to intervene.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060112/ap_on_re_us/execution_dna
P.S. I'm EA ;)
Nice to see you on the forum Stavro.
P.S. I'm EA ;)
:) . What a pleasant surprise, EA ! Nice to see you around as well. How does the forum's world look from the moderator side ? ;)
I hope to see more contribution from you on this forum when you have the time and will ofcourse.