Islam

Marsilino

wuts up yall! i heard that in the quran its written thats its lawful to kill Christians and Jews. Does anyone know if such is true; and if it is true does anyone know where in the quran it can be found. Some muslims deny such verse so iam wondering if it really exists.

Paulh

i remember having a reference to this a while ago, but i can't find it now. to the best of my recollection, the quran says that they are to try to convert anybody and everybody to islam, and if they refuse, then they are to kill them. But not all muslims believe that tho. so that probably why the ones that u talked to denied it. its usually the muslims in places like saudi arabia that believe that. i mean, u don't find muslims around here that do that. maybe once in a while you see one of the maniacs on the news that decided to bomb a building. if i'm wrong about any of this..i hope nobody minds correcting me

Unknown

here i go again... lol
okay, theres two parts to the quran.... two attitudes i should say, one of the Mohammed in Mecca, and the other in Medina
in Mecca, Islam is a new religon so he's tryin to spread teh word as christianity was spread, through loveand peace and compassion
then in Medina, his followers grew, so he tries to spread the word by the sword and acts as a 'warrior for God'
so here's some controversial versus that tell them who to fight
if u ask a muslim about this contradictory, they claim that "Allah" changed his mind
so here i go.....
"Be patient wiht what they say, and part from them courteously." Surah 73:10

then....... in Surah 2:191
"Kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from wherever they drove you out"
Surah 2:193:
"Fight adn kill them until there is no persecution and the religon is God's"
Surah 9:29
"Fight those who do not believe in God and the last day... and fight People of the Book, who do not accept the religion of truth (Islam) until they pay tribute by hand, being inferior..."

now, as far as jihad goes:
"I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers, smite ye above their necks and smite all their figner-tips offf tehm. It is not ye who slew them, it was God."
Surah 8:13

Jews and Christians in the Quran:
"The Jews call Uzair a son of Allah, and the Christians call Christ the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouths; in this they but imitate what the unbelievers (aka infadels) of old used to say. Allahs curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the truth!"
Surah 9:30
"O ye who believe! Take not teh Jews and the Christians for you friends and protectors. They are but friends and protetors to each other. Andhe amongst you that turns to them for friendship is one of them. Verily Allah guideth not a people unjust."
Surah 5:54

so, why do these people believe in killing us?
cause itll get them to heaven...
"And if ye are slain or die int eh way of Allah, forgiveness andm ercy from Allah are far better than all they could amass."
Surah 3:157

So we're done wiht the surahs, so what about the Hadith???
the hadith is the record of Mohammeds life written by close relatives, wives, etc
according to this, there all from the Sahih Al-Bukhari
"Know that paradise is under the shades of swords" Vol 4:73
"Mohammed said 'The person whoparticipates in Holy battles in Allah's cause and nothing compels him to do so except belief in Allah and His Apostle, will be recompensed by Allah either with a reward, or booty if he is survived or will be admitted to paradise if killed." Vol 1:35

That's all i have for now, but if u have any other questions, i posted a very long post containing several surahs in the "Catholic Persecution" thread... if u have any other questions, plz post
hope this helped :)

Marsilino

Hey SMS thanks alot for ur detailed answer, it really helped and thanks for the quran verses to back it up. Now i can use them as reference. God bless you

Abanoub88

Yes. Great job SMS! Gives me something to argue with now!!

In the love and fellowship of the Holy Spirit and the One Holy Omnipotent Christ,
- Chris

marys

i have a question though...
when you bring up those quotes from the quran.. some of them try to argue another verse (which i don't know where it is) that says the christians are their brothers and that no harm should come to them.. i don't even know if it exists or if i made that up.. someone help.

Marsilino

Well Marys if such verses exist u can fight back and say how come the quran contradicts. By doing so u can question which soura to believe. In that case u will put them in an ackward position b/c u have just proved that the quran has errors, and doesn't agree with itsself.

Unknown

yea, ur exactly right mary
we've all read the bible, and we all know that there are no contradictory verses, if anything, theres prophecies that back up another verse...
but the quran does contradict itself.. as i said before, Mohammed claims that God changed his mood when he went from Mecca to Medina
In Mecca, he was the loving and compassionate God, which is probably where you got that verse from Mary
Yet in Medina, he fought and went by the sword, which is where the contradiction comes in
When a religon is first born, they try to have it appeal to people and appear as a loving religon that accepts everyone... so when Islam became known, it didnt have to have this fake outlook anymore, so "God" changed his mind and decided to fight people and kill them in his name...
did that clear things up in any way?

marys

good to know that i'm not just making up stuff..
but yea.. that was my point. it's all a big load of contradiction.

mike_henain

Well ofcourse it is.. quran is a human-created book, it will never be perfect because it doesn't come from God the ONLY PERFECT. in fact God is Perfection. "But when perfection comes the imperfect will dissapear." I think this is what the verse says...


Defender

Marsilino

If anyone can.... can they clarify what the quran says about christians. Sorry for my lack of knowldge, i never cared to read the quran, but at the same time i like to defend my Christian faith aganist those who persecute it, so iam just trying to learn from those who have knowledge so i can back up any argument that i can use to defent the Christian faith

mike_henain

Hey, that's why I call myself Defender because I try defending against those who attack, but I can only succeed with Wisdom and Power sent from God, by myself I can't do nothing...


Defender

Unknown

hey, i get what u mean
u can find more info here:
http://tasbeha.org/content/community/index.php?board=1;action=display;threadid=260;start=15
i posted alotta stuff there
;) we all know what i mean ;) lol

Marsilino

Hey msm, is that basbusa person Christian?

marys

i'm not sms.. but maybe i can answer ur question..
a whole bunch of us have been trying to figure the identity of basbusa.. but we don't know... he claims that he is christian and that he is only doing this for further research.. but then comes the arguement of his strong defense of islam... so in short... we just don't know.. but we doubt it. he has, however, since retracted all his posts.. so i guess we'll never know

Coptic_Avenger

hey guys i remember somethink that one of the bishops or book by a bishop stated something in the quraan. "And kill(or destroy: dont remeber) all the followers of the book."

Marsilino

hey coptic avenger are u saying the book do u mean christians who follow the bible? if so would u happen to know where it is in the quran. Thanks alot God bless you all

Coptic_Avenger

im not sure, i'll check up on it. all i know right now is that "the Book" means the bible and the Jew's book.

Unknown

Surah 9:29
"Fight those who do not believe in God and the last day... and fight People of the Book, who do not accept the religion of truth (Islam) until they pay tribute by hand, being inferior..."

Mark423

The Quran is basically some of the bible, mixed with some stuff that Mohammed thought would sound interesting. Keep in mind Islam was founded by a bishop who made a wrong turn; when he died Mohammed went crazy and just came up with a bunch of stuff in addition to what had already been written. As it has been said, it’s extremely contradictory. When a Muslim needs your help and wants to win you over, he comes with his messages of peace. When he has had enough of you and wants to kill you, he comes with his justification from the same book that is “peaceful” that he can kill you. Bottom line is; any verse that speaks peace has one to balance it out which speaks of revenge and evil. So, is the quaran peaceful or filled with hate? That all depends on the situation the person whom you’re speaking with is in.

Unknown

actually, i was told that they found the original koran SEVERAL years back, but the caliph quickly destroyed and burned it.. why? because the words of it were sweet, unlike what it is now
also, the 3rd caliph.. forgot his name, burned 26 DIFFERENT copies of the koran
also, as mark said, there are stories from the bible... but they are very different! >:(
for ex, Jesus was born under a palm tree, not in a manger... go figure lol
anywayz... islam is so odd... :-\
May the Lord show all the Muslims the right path...

Suzanne

I can speak for hours on this topic ive read so much about it and I find it very interesting- I haven’t read all the post replies but from what ive gathered you guys know heaps 2! The Islamic invasion written by Robert Morey is an EXCELLENT book it discusses Islam in comparison to Christianity and gives a number of great facts.

Here are a few points:

1- In the Koran, Jesus' name is mentioned more than Mohammad’s
2- The Koran is not in chronological order... when it was getting written they would write on whatever they found (i.e papyrus, torn shirts, bark) and after centuries they put it together-
3- In the Koran, which Muslims claim is a holy and pure book sent to them by God spells many words (Some which include Mohammad, Koran and Kaaba) in several different ways throughout the Koran
4- The Islamic religion began in 7th century Arabia and amazingly enough adapted every little cultural part of that time era (the dress code etc.) and claimed that it was 'religion'
5- Many verses from the Koran are actually verses found in the bible, slightly altered (as you all know the bible was made before the Koran)

Just another little point I thought is quiet interesting:
Our God tells us to love Muslims so we can get into heaven where as their god tells them to kill us so they can enter heaven.

peet

I have done some study into Islam and i knew some of it from my 11 years I spent in egypt. so let us clear a few things:

1. The "people of the book" is refrence to the christians.

2. Yes, there are many verses that (in condtradiction) say that Christians are your brothers.

3. Muslims believe that jesus is a prophet of Allah and that is why he didn't allow him to be crusified!!!

4. To cut history short: early Muslims including mohammad I think, saw the christians as their brother, but as time passed and Islam evolved and They started conquering nations, they saw that there was good from invading Christian countries, so the Quran adapted that new view for political gains.

5. Not all muslims believe that, on the other hand may believe just that.

6. Some Muslims actually love Christianity(rarely though) , I knew a few Muslims who loved the saints. It is not unheard of that Muslims fast the fast of St.Mary and honour her, as she is highly honored in the Quran.

7. And no, Iam not a muslim, I am not trying to defentd them but merely give a wider viewe on things.

Boricua_Orthodox

It's good to learn and read about the quran but not everyone can do it. We first must be rooted in the Lord Jesus Christ and the Holy Orthodox Faith. If not we are not grounded upon the Rock ( the real one not the fake wrestler...lol) The King of kings: [glow=red,2,300]Jesus Christ!!!![/glow] First get intellectually AND spiritually knowledgeble then go and read islam and defend it if not u can fall for it real bad
i have seen it with "gung- ho" christians who later convert due to lack of preparation.

Be guided by ur Confession Father by this especially and make sure God is calling u to do this.

I have reading the quran and other islamic books for a few years now and I still am careful to be prepared intellectually and especially spiritually in dealing with outreach to muslims. But i must be careful that I am doing for the Lord ( Live Work) and not for my ego ( Dead work).


So please pray for this big gamuz..mooooo.GBU!

Coptic_Avenger

hey i just got this book about Islam called "Islam Unveiled" its really cool. it has everything on islam. its really great. it talks about everything u guys talked about and it gives quotes(and a lot of them too).

mike_henain

Does that book support islam or is against it?


Defender

Unknown

Let's just say its been the resource to ALL the information i posted here...
ill leave the rest up to u ;D

sleepymusician

Can I find this book in my church?
I'd really like to read it. Thanx. ;)

sleepy

mike_henain

So is the book against islam or for it??

Coz I hate brain wash....


Defender

Abanoub88

It is against Islam habibi.

Your Brother In Christ,
- Chris

mike_henain

Ok habibi :P



Defender