Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Categories
- All Categories 13.8K
- General Category 10.9K
- General Announcements 184
- Faith Issues 3.4K
- Coptic Orthodox Church 2.5K
- Personal Issues 1.4K
- Prayer Requests 423
- Random Issues 1.8K
- Introductions 294
- Non-Orthodox Inquiries 232
- Youth Corner 606
- Hymns 2.5K
- Hymns Discussion 2.5K
- Technicial Difficulties 368
- Technical Topics 368
The way we say the Gospel.
You know how we say the gospel with the long tune... why do we do it? It's hard to understand in my opinion and a waste of time. I think we should say it clearly so people can understand and we can finish church faster. The same with church hymns but not in a clear way i mean like in a clear way but not that long like 20 minutes make it fast because i know many people that don't go to church for this reason and I agree with them. So my question is why they do the gospel in a long tune?
Comments
The hymns are said in a long tune for the same reason, to give people time to contemplate on what is being said/sang.
afterall it is a major thing that sets us apart from the western churches...
i really, really love it. im a deacon and enjoy singing hymns at church. it feels really special and different singing hymns than just sitting in the congregation listening.
i do agree with lildude30894 that the gospel should be read clearly, but that doesn't mean just take away the tune. The deacon who reads the gospel should read it slowly(to be understood), pronounce words clearly and in the special tune.
if the gospel is not read in its special tune then something unique in our tradition dies.
i would have attached the Gospel of the Resurrection Feast 2004 at the Cathedral but it is too big. u can find it on tasbeha.org anyway. The tune is just great and the words extremely clear.
i couldnt bear going to a mass and hearing the gospel just read plainly...
The way we say the gospel in our church is very special.
i really, really love it. im a deacon and enjoy singing hymns at church. it feels really special and different singing hymns than just sitting in the congregation listening.
The congregation should not be listining but participating... sorry just wanted to piont that out.
He is Risen indeed!
An interesting discussion here, which jydeacon and LifeinChrist bring us to where we need to be.
Just suppose for a moment that we had a Liturgy as short as the Anglican one; what would you do with time 'saved'? What better use do you have for it? Do you want to be saved or to save time?
He hung on that cross on Golgotha for us and our salvation; I think we can manage a few hours a week dedicated only to worshipping Him - don't you?
I come from a tradition which has responded to the desire to shorten the Liturgy and to make things more 'modern'; I can tell you that the result is not good. One of God's many gifts to His faithful Coptic Church has been a Liturgy of great beauty; to change it would be like converting the Great Pyramid into a MacDonald's restaurant! Let us be thankful to our Holy Fathers for preserving the Faith intact and passing it on to us.
In Christ,
John
Very interesting topic that lildude started, and very beautiful really beneficial replies I have benefited from myself. I just would like to add two points, one of them is an incident that happened before, and the other is a personal opinion:
First, I was once told by a big deacon in my church (in England) that they were visited once by a Greek Bishop (obviously before I came over), and that deacon decided to make a welcoming memory for that Bishop. It was during the Holy Fifty Days, and then the deacon decided to sing the hymn "ton sina", even though it was night time, and wasn't Vespers, or any Church service; just a meeting. He, then, noticed that the Bishop's eyes were filled with tears. After the meeting he went up to the Bishop asking him why he became that emotional when he listened to the song, and interestingly enough the Bishop said: "the Greek Orthodox Church (which he comes from) passed this hymn on to the Coptic counterpart, and because of modernising the church, and going by what the people in this age desired they lost that hymn along with many of the other great traditions that made the Greek Orthodox Church distinct one day": that is in agreement with what anglian specifically noted.
Second, and this is just personal experience, along with contemplating in the words, getting affected by them in certain and different ways through singing long hymns, and reading the Gospel in a special way, I find that these lift me up to heaven. Yes, I do; I get higher and higher the more hymns that I sing, and it is amazing. It is for no reason, that the fathers led by our God the Holy Spirit managed to keep a great percentage (if not 100%) of our unequalled (a bit arrogant) Coptic heritage.
God bless you all and please don't forget to mention me in your prayers.
Thank you for sharing that very moving story with us, and for letting us in on your own experience, which was equally valuable; you direct our minds to where they need to be.
There is always a danger in this modern world that we regard whatever is new as somehow best; we all want a new computer with the newest software, etc. But the Faith was given once for all to the Apostles by Christ Our Lord, and it remains always new. Being the sinful people we are, we will always have thoughts about how we could 'improve' on what we have inherited; but the good thing about the Orthodox Church is that it knows our spiritual pride and gently carries on with the work it has done for nearly two thousand years.
There have certainly been changes in the Liturgy. We know that St. Basil and St. Cyril both responded to the over-long Liturgies they were used to by refining and redrawing them; but they stuck to the structures they had inherited. Their Liturgies (like that of St. James used in my own Church in the UK) have stood the test of the ages.
As an Anglican I came into a Church that had a wonderful Prayer Book that had lasted since the seventeenth century; from the Orthodox point of view it lacked some of the things we would consider essential, but it was sonorous and beautiful. The Anglicans largely ditched it to go for something more 'contemporary' - which means that every few years they have to keep doing it. It makes life in Church a perpetual fidget. How fortunate we are in the Orthodox Church to have Liturgies of great and magnificent beauty that reflect the Heavenly Liturgy; we owe thanks to those who have kept these things for us; and we owe it to those who come after us to bequeath these riches to them. We are but the stewards of the Liturgy, not its owners.
I was very moved by what you wrote about the Greek priest.
In Christ,
John
You are exactly correct in what you said, and this gives me a sense of pride how you are praising the Orthodox Church. I really hope that every member of tasbeha.org (at least if not all Orthodox Christians; I am not asking for too much) feel the same way that I do. God bless you John, and please remember me in your prayers.
Other than that, there must be something terribly wrong with the chanter if you can not understand the gospel.
Do not go against the hymns because you may be commiting the sin of stopping someone from praying.
You know how we say the gospel with the long tune... why do we do it? It's hard to understand in my opinion and a waste of time. I think we should say it clearly so people can understand and we can finish church faster. The same with church hymns but not in a clear way i mean like in a clear way but not that long like 20 minutes make it fast because i know many people that don't go to church for this reason and I agree with them. So my question is why they do the gospel in a long tune?
lildude30894, ya3ny u left the whole liturgy that is technically about 9 hours long and full of alhan and reading and complain about couple fo minutes of the gospel. OK, first, the gospel is supposed to be read in it's tune. not only read as everyone said. now about the peoples' bad r good voice, that doesn't matter. there have to be some tune in it. 1 reason that was listed before is it is a kind of prayer towards God. like all our praises that lead to the liturgy and the hymns that are in it.
another thing is that the gospel is parrallel to the time of communion. am sure everyone knows how holy communion time is. don't forget, in communion christ comes to us in His from of body and blood that we accept in our bodies, worthy or unworthy that urs to judge and will be judged upon. In the gospel on the other hand, Christ comes to us in His form of words. and it's also ur choice to accept it or not.
I am so sorry if I put you off or got you off your topic by my style of discussion. For a couple of weeks you haven't posted a thread to discuss with other members. It could be my fault or anyone else's, but I just want to say that we seemed going against you, which is not true. It was a naive way of trying to convince you with my opinion. I think every other member would love to hear your opinion.
God bless you all and mention me in your prayers.