Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Categories
- All Categories 13.8K
- General Category 10.9K
- General Announcements 184
- Faith Issues 3.4K
- Coptic Orthodox Church 2.5K
- Personal Issues 1.4K
- Prayer Requests 423
- Random Issues 1.8K
- Introductions 294
- Non-Orthodox Inquiries 232
- Youth Corner 606
- Hymns 2.5K
- Hymns Discussion 2.5K
- Technicial Difficulties 368
- Technical Topics 368
Immaculate Conception of St. Mary
well..in one of the threads already posted before....about one of the differences between orthodox and catholic...is the immcaulate conception of st mary
so....on what evidence/basis from the Bible...do the catholics believe that St. Mary was concieved with no sin...why do they think so? :-\ if only God is without sin) The Coptic Orthodox Church does not believe in the Immaculate Conception of St. Mary, because:
A) St. Mary said " My soul magnifies the Lord, and my spirit rejoiced in God my Savior" (St. Luke 1:46&47).
B) No one without sin except God alone (Galatians 3:22, 1st. Kings 8:46, Ecclesiastes 7:20)
C) Only Christ our Lord and God is without sin (2nd Cor 5:21, Heb 4:15, Heb 7:26)
D) This is against the Bible teachings (1st. John 3:5).
· The Catholic Church believes in The Immaculate Conception of St. Mary.
Comments
no replies??????????????????? ???
Mary was born as a normal human like us. We reject the immaculate conception for a couple of reasons.
The first is the very famous verse in Luke when she says she rejoices in God her Saviour. If she was sinless she would have no need of a Saviour. There were also many saints who said that she was sinless but that exists by grace and not by nature as in she needed God's help or God's saving work to make her like that.
The last point is that all mankind is incapible of recieving the Holy Sprit because of the fall and the separation from God that occured. When the Lord was concieved the Holy Spirit decended on the Virgin and cleansed her and made her worthy to be recieve the Holy Spirit and become the mother of the Lord.
Also the catholic doctrine states that she was born without original sin but ironically they also teach that the broken human nature is a product of being immaculatly concieved, I mean tiredness and hunger, etc are things that occured due to the fall. This is where the immaculate conception doesn't work because of she was born without a fallen human nature, how was she to pass the same flesh that gets tired and hungers on the Lord who we know from biblical accounts gets tired and hungry?
It was not an original apostolic teaching and existed later on in Catholic doctine and is rejected by some of their own fathers like St. Thomas Aquinas who is their greatest theologian.
Does this clarify matters? :?
God bless,
CS
CS, that was a GREAT answer. :)
Princess, i have been told different information by Catholics about the immaculate conception.
Some say, God prevented her from inheriting the original sin, because she was to become the mother of the God.
Some said that God intervened in the universal law just this once to allow her to start the Christian people. She is the 'mother of us all', so she must have been free from sin.
However, after explaining to them that this cannot be true, using biblical examples such as the one CS mentioned = (Luke 1:46-48)
"And Mary said: "My soul magnifies the Lord, And my spirit has rejoiced in God my Savior. For He has regarded the lowly state of His maidservant; For behold, henceforth all generations will call me blessed."
They cannot really give a good explanation of the verse. They tried to say that she was thanking God for what He had already done. Some even insisted that there were verses supporting the immaculate conception. Like when angel Gabriel said, "Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with you" (Luke 1:28). They say that full of grace means without stain...
I know you wanted their arguments, and their proof from the Bible etc.... so ... here it is ;)
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07674d.htm
This is a link to an article in the CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPAEDIA about EVERYTHING to do with the immaculate conception. It is very detailed.
Here is another one that is slightly easier to read:
http://www.catholic.com/library/Immaculate_Conception_and_Assum.asp
Hope that's what you wanted.
God Bless! :)
The R.C. doctrine of the Immaculate Conception is based upon a different understanding of Original Sin. The Roman Catholic church teaches that humans inherit the guilt of Adam and Eve and its passed down thru the sexual act! Thus if we see now the meaning of the Immaculate Conception it means that the Holy Theotokos couldn't inherit Original Sin nor its guilt through the sexual union of Sts. Joachim and Ana. Thus God knowing that His Son was going to become incarnate thru St. Mary made her conception (when St Mary was made or conceived in St Anna's womb) without Original Sin nor its guilt. This was made possible by the merits of the Cross going "backwards" into time and making her all pure! Roman Catholics say this is why she calls God her Saviour (Luke 1:47) becuase he had her immaculately conceived thru the future merits (our time since there is no past nor future with God, only now) of the Cross of Our Lord Jesus Christ.
The Orthodox understanding of Original Sin is different. It says we didn't inherit the guilt of Adam and Eve but only the weaknesses due to their Fall since Adam is the father of humanity. Thus we are born with a stain that doesn't completely bloted out the Image of god in us. We are born in ot a world of sickness and death, and under bondage to the devil. We have the weakness to sin. We don't teach Original Sin is inherited nor passed down thru sexual union. Thus we can see how the doctrine of the Immaculate Conception does'nt apply to St. Mary becuase she WE ALL don't inherit Adam's guilt and just the weaknesses. That She remained physically AND spiritually is taught by the Holy Orthodox Church but it was at the time when St. Gabriel announced to her the Good News and called her " Full of grace" or "highly favored one".... (Luke 1:28). This also explains why The Lord Jesus is her Saviour since she too was weak like us but she kept faithful to God by His grace!
I hope this helped and may the prayers of the Holy Theotokos, St Mary help us to grow in the Image and Likeness of the Lord jesus Christ!