[quote author=Iqbal link=topic=6071.msg80789#msg80789 date=1199433191] Does anyone know where I can download/stream a good quality (that should cancel all the streaming hymns at coptichymns.net) recording of Estermegi?
Would you be able to link me to similarly good recordings of other Paramoun hymns? I tried to check out the whole Paramoun folder under Tawfeek but it was completely empty for some reason. If I could have direct links to the files (of Tawfeek and of any of the other chanters) that would be most helpful.
[quote author=Iqbal link=topic=6071.msg80792#msg80792 date=1199437124] Thanks Mina; it's slowly downloading as we speak.
Would you be able to link me to similarly good recordings of other Paramoun hymns? I tried to check out the whole Paramoun folder under Tawfeek but it was completely empty for some reason. If I could have direct links to the files (of Tawfeek and of any of the other chanters) that would be most helpful.
i don't know of any online. but i do have 4 main ones for muallem Farag.....and I think Muallem Fahim record this rite to....just not sure where.
Obviously the recording you posted couldnt possibly be a translation of the actual hymn but rather a medayah. Could someone please translate it? This brings me to another question: Do people have the authority to take coptic tunes and implement them on made up words? On what authority are we allowed to do this? Anyway, im just playing devil's advocate ...just wanna see what you guys think. Oh yeah, and if someone has a translation, please share!
[quote author=Amoussa01 link=topic=6071.msg80810#msg80810 date=1199485444] Obviously the recording you posted couldnt possibly be a translation of the actual hymn but rather a medayah. Could someone please translate it? This brings me to another question: Do people have the authority to take coptic tunes and implement them on made up words? On what authority are we allowed to do this? Anyway, im just playing devil's advocate ...just wanna see what you guys think. Oh yeah, and if someone has a translation, please share!
1st, we're working on the madeha....
2nd, yes....depending on the usage of the hymns and the words themselves. on the authority that we are actually copts. but of course that authority can't be higher than the committees constructed by the holy Synod to over look these things before they are announced valid. Of course this is out of the question out of the liturgical structure we have in our church.
[quote author=minagir link=topic=6071.msg80812#msg80812 date=1199491170] [quote author=Amoussa01 link=topic=6071.msg80810#msg80810 date=1199485444] Obviously the recording you posted couldnt possibly be a translation of the actual hymn but rather a medayah. Could someone please translate it? This brings me to another question: Do people have the authority to take coptic tunes and implement them on made up words? On what authority are we allowed to do this? Anyway, im just playing devil's advocate ...just wanna see what you guys think. Oh yeah, and if someone has a translation, please share!
1st, we're working on the madeha....
2nd, yes....depending on the usage of the hymns and the words themselves. on the authority that we are actually copts. but of course that authority can't be higher than the committees constructed by the holy Synod to over look these things before they are announced valid. Of course this is out of the question out of the liturgical structure we have in our church.
Mina, regarding your second comment... when you say "liturgical structure," are you implying that this hymn is not part of the taqs? because this is a hymn that is said during communion time and the reason why i asked about the authority is because of the fact that some people will begin chanting this particular "hymn" or medayah rather and making it part of the "liturgical structure."
[quote author=Amoussa01 link=topic=6071.msg80816#msg80816 date=1199501913] [quote author=minagir link=topic=6071.msg80812#msg80812 date=1199491170] [quote author=Amoussa01 link=topic=6071.msg80810#msg80810 date=1199485444] Obviously the recording you posted couldnt possibly be a translation of the actual hymn but rather a medayah. Could someone please translate it? This brings me to another question: Do people have the authority to take coptic tunes and implement them on made up words? On what authority are we allowed to do this? Anyway, im just playing devil's advocate ...just wanna see what you guys think. Oh yeah, and if someone has a translation, please share!
1st, we're working on the madeha....
2nd, yes....depending on the usage of the hymns and the words themselves. on the authority that we are actually copts. but of course that authority can't be higher than the committees constructed by the holy Synod to over look these things before they are announced valid. Of course this is out of the question out of the liturgical structure we have in our church.
Mina, regarding your second comment... when you say "liturgical structure," are you implying that this hymn is not part of the taqs? because this is a hymn that is said during communion time and the reason why i asked about the authority is because of the fact that some people will begin chanting this particular "hymn" or medayah rather and making it part of the "liturgical structure."
GB Tony
what i mean by "liturgical structure" is the main liturgy services. during communion you can say many things that are fitting to communion. i know many of the people on coptichymns.net are against saying songs and other things during communion...but i don't agree with them. why, because you hav to consider everyones' estate here. I personally would love to say long hymns and a lot of other things that we can say during communion, but we kind of can't....why, cuz we have to consider the people that are actually there and that would somtimes not enjoy things as much we deacons would.
Our church rites do not limit the things you can say during communion but they put a general rule, as long as it is fitting to what is going on.
Dear Mina, I agree with AMoussa01 here. I am not sure where I have heard that, or about whom, but I learnt a while ago that one bishop in Egypt said it loud and clear that it is not ritually correct to say songs, or even melodies during Communion. I really do disagree with your point about people enjoying what is said. If that is the case, I think we will be very slack, and that will eventually mean that we will condone things, which shouldn't be condoned. By the way, by we, I refer to deacons who fervently strive to keep the rituals of the church in the rightest possible form. I can't refer to any authority as I don't know of any who would be responsible for that. Second, AMoussa01, I am not sure if these hymns were in essence looked over by relevant authorities as Mina suggested should be the case. What I mean is things like 'el 3oleika', 'nawary' in Kiahk are Coptic tunes on made up words. They were adopted by the church as part of the melodies, and praises (and in the case of the latter, as songs); the question is were they "authorised" by a relevant authority? I would really like to know if they were. God bless you all and pray for us a lot
[quote author=ophadece link=topic=6071.msg80891#msg80891 date=1199790505] Dear Mina, I agree with AMoussa01 here. I am not sure where I have heard that, or about whom, but I learnt a while ago that one bishop in Egypt said it loud and clear that it is not ritually correct to say songs, or even melodies during Communion. I really do disagree with your point about people enjoying what is said. If that is the case, I think we will be very slack, and that will eventually mean that we will condone things, which shouldn't be condoned. By the way, by we, I refer to deacons who fervently strive to keep the rituals of the church in the rightest possible form. I can't refer to any authority as I don't know of any who would be responsible for that.
well i wouldn't consider it "slacking"....just sonsidering other who are there with you but don't know as much as you (as a deacon). and am not saying ya3ny khalas leave everything we have and songs. it's hard to control but you have to. you must be considrate and in te same time keep the limits of the rite. like can naver, naver would say anything in annual days before we finish pi-oik. than fromt here on you can start saying some of the songs and madaieh that are listed here, http://tasbeha.org/hymn_library/cat/211. also maybe the song "O seeker"
Second, AMoussa01, I am not sure if these hymns were in essence looked over by relevant authorities as Mina suggested should be the case. What I mean is things like 'el 3oleika', 'nawary' in Kiahk are Coptic tunes on made up words. They were adopted by the church as part of the melodies, and praises (and in the case of the latter, as songs); the question is were they "authorised" by a relevant authority? I would really like to know if they were. God bless you all and pray for us a lot
i wasn't putting a request in for an authority but rather i was difinning it. Any full published book by any of our churchs or people is reviewed by the Holy Synod commiti. especially long praises books and so forth. lol, even the norml songs that are recorded by like Boles Malak, or Sater Mikhael or all those moranimin, their productions are reviewed and put valid for us. if otherwise, the word will get to everyone that maybe this production is not fully valid to use.
[quote author=Amoussa01 link=topic=6071.msg80810#msg80810 date=1199485444] Obviously the recording you posted couldnt possibly be a translation of the actual hymn but rather a medayah. Could someone please translate it? This brings me to another question: Do people have the authority to take coptic tunes and implement them on made up words? On what authority are we allowed to do this?
i just wanted to mention that this madeha is not made up by cantor zaher (the one from youth bishopric).it is present in the kiahk psalmody of el moharak monestry and recorded by the monks there on the same tune of "icter magi"
[quote author=shnoda link=topic=6071.msg80949#msg80949 date=1200057666] [quote author=Amoussa01 link=topic=6071.msg80810#msg80810 date=1199485444] Obviously the recording you posted couldnt possibly be a translation of the actual hymn but rather a medayah. Could someone please translate it? This brings me to another question: Do people have the authority to take coptic tunes and implement them on made up words? On what authority are we allowed to do this?
i just wanted to mention that this madeha is not made up by cantor zaher (the one from youth bishopric).it is present in the kiahk psalmody of el moharak monestry and recorded by the monks there on the same tune of "icter magi"
to add to that, i think it was written by Abo el-Saad El-abotigi, the same person who wrote the Kiahk Vespers Praises parts and also many more kiahk hymns.
Iqbal, watch your comments please. In reference to coptichymns.net, they do a great job on that site. Don't criticize the records or the quality. We are supplying the rarest and oldest records, so please be kind in what you say. I take great pride in that site, being that I attend that church where Coptichymns.net originated. You go on it and and participate and answer great questions and ask great questions. So please try to show a little bit more compassion to hard work.
[quote author=David_the_King link=topic=6071.msg81609#msg81609 date=1201741809] Iqbal, watch your comments please. In reference to coptichymns.net, they do a great job on that site. Don't criticize the records or the quality. We are supplying the rarest and oldest records, so please be kind in what you say. I take great pride in that site, being that I attend that church where Coptichymns.net originated. You go on it and and participate and answer great questions and ask great questions. So please try to show a little bit more compassion to hard work.
i don't think he did anything ya3ny. he just asked for a better copy. so whats??!!!!
and please don't take it as a criticism.....cuz if it is, i would of helped him on doing soo.
I don't think he meant that with any offense. He is looking for a clear reference to the hymn, and since as you say there are many old and rare hymns, they wouldn't be a clear reference to the hymn. Thats all lol chillax everyone!
Comments
Does anyone know where I can download/stream a good quality (that should cancel all the streaming hymns at coptichymns.net) recording of Estermegi?
i like the coptichymns.net comment...... ::) ;D
I think this version is a fine recording:
[coptic]Ic;ermegi[/coptic] :: Cantor Tawfik
Would you be able to link me to similarly good recordings of other Paramoun hymns? I tried to check out the whole Paramoun folder under Tawfeek but it was completely empty for some reason. If I could have direct links to the files (of Tawfeek and of any of the other chanters) that would be most helpful.
Thanks Mina; it's slowly downloading as we speak.
Would you be able to link me to similarly good recordings of other Paramoun hymns? I tried to check out the whole Paramoun folder under Tawfeek but it was completely empty for some reason. If I could have direct links to the files (of Tawfeek and of any of the other chanters) that would be most helpful.
i don't know of any online. but i do have 4 main ones for muallem Farag.....and I think Muallem Fahim record this rite to....just not sure where.
this is another copy for cantor Zaher.
http://www.alhan-youthbishopric.com/alhan/downloads.asp?dl=dling&dlid=610&scid=100&dcid=13
Gerges
GB
Tony
Obviously the recording you posted couldnt possibly be a translation of the actual hymn but rather a medayah. Could someone please translate it? This brings me to another question: Do people have the authority to take coptic tunes and implement them on made up words? On what authority are we allowed to do this? Anyway, im just playing devil's advocate ...just wanna see what you guys think. Oh yeah, and if someone has a translation, please share!
1st, we're working on the madeha....
2nd, yes....depending on the usage of the hymns and the words themselves. on the authority that we are actually copts. but of course that authority can't be higher than the committees constructed by the holy Synod to over look these things before they are announced valid. Of course this is out of the question out of the liturgical structure we have in our church.
[quote author=Amoussa01 link=topic=6071.msg80810#msg80810 date=1199485444]
Obviously the recording you posted couldnt possibly be a translation of the actual hymn but rather a medayah. Could someone please translate it? This brings me to another question: Do people have the authority to take coptic tunes and implement them on made up words? On what authority are we allowed to do this? Anyway, im just playing devil's advocate ...just wanna see what you guys think. Oh yeah, and if someone has a translation, please share!
1st, we're working on the madeha....
2nd, yes....depending on the usage of the hymns and the words themselves. on the authority that we are actually copts. but of course that authority can't be higher than the committees constructed by the holy Synod to over look these things before they are announced valid. Of course this is out of the question out of the liturgical structure we have in our church.
Mina, regarding your second comment... when you say "liturgical structure," are you implying that this hymn is not part of the taqs? because this is a hymn that is said during communion time and the reason why i asked about the authority is because of the fact that some people will begin chanting this particular "hymn" or medayah rather and making it part of the "liturgical structure."
GB
Tony
[quote author=minagir link=topic=6071.msg80812#msg80812 date=1199491170]
[quote author=Amoussa01 link=topic=6071.msg80810#msg80810 date=1199485444]
Obviously the recording you posted couldnt possibly be a translation of the actual hymn but rather a medayah. Could someone please translate it? This brings me to another question: Do people have the authority to take coptic tunes and implement them on made up words? On what authority are we allowed to do this? Anyway, im just playing devil's advocate ...just wanna see what you guys think. Oh yeah, and if someone has a translation, please share!
1st, we're working on the madeha....
2nd, yes....depending on the usage of the hymns and the words themselves. on the authority that we are actually copts. but of course that authority can't be higher than the committees constructed by the holy Synod to over look these things before they are announced valid. Of course this is out of the question out of the liturgical structure we have in our church.
Mina, regarding your second comment... when you say "liturgical structure," are you implying that this hymn is not part of the taqs? because this is a hymn that is said during communion time and the reason why i asked about the authority is because of the fact that some people will begin chanting this particular "hymn" or medayah rather and making it part of the "liturgical structure."
GB
Tony
what i mean by "liturgical structure" is the main liturgy services. during communion you can say many things that are fitting to communion. i know many of the people on coptichymns.net are against saying songs and other things during communion...but i don't agree with them. why, because you hav to consider everyones' estate here. I personally would love to say long hymns and a lot of other things that we can say during communion, but we kind of can't....why, cuz we have to consider the people that are actually there and that would somtimes not enjoy things as much we deacons would.
Our church rites do not limit the things you can say during communion but they put a general rule, as long as it is fitting to what is going on.
I agree with AMoussa01 here. I am not sure where I have heard that, or about whom, but I learnt a while ago that one bishop in Egypt said it loud and clear that it is not ritually correct to say songs, or even melodies during Communion. I really do disagree with your point about people enjoying what is said. If that is the case, I think we will be very slack, and that will eventually mean that we will condone things, which shouldn't be condoned. By the way, by we, I refer to deacons who fervently strive to keep the rituals of the church in the rightest possible form. I can't refer to any authority as I don't know of any who would be responsible for that.
Second, AMoussa01, I am not sure if these hymns were in essence looked over by relevant authorities as Mina suggested should be the case. What I mean is things like 'el 3oleika', 'nawary' in Kiahk are Coptic tunes on made up words. They were adopted by the church as part of the melodies, and praises (and in the case of the latter, as songs); the question is were they "authorised" by a relevant authority? I would really like to know if they were.
God bless you all and pray for us a lot
Dear Mina,
I agree with AMoussa01 here. I am not sure where I have heard that, or about whom, but I learnt a while ago that one bishop in Egypt said it loud and clear that it is not ritually correct to say songs, or even melodies during Communion. I really do disagree with your point about people enjoying what is said. If that is the case, I think we will be very slack, and that will eventually mean that we will condone things, which shouldn't be condoned. By the way, by we, I refer to deacons who fervently strive to keep the rituals of the church in the rightest possible form. I can't refer to any authority as I don't know of any who would be responsible for that.
well i wouldn't consider it "slacking"....just sonsidering other who are there with you but don't know as much as you (as a deacon). and am not saying ya3ny khalas leave everything we have and songs. it's hard to control but you have to. you must be considrate and in te same time keep the limits of the rite. like can naver, naver would say anything in annual days before we finish pi-oik. than fromt here on you can start saying some of the songs and madaieh that are listed here, http://tasbeha.org/hymn_library/cat/211. also maybe the song "O seeker"
i wasn't putting a request in for an authority but rather i was difinning it. Any full published book by any of our churchs or people is reviewed by the Holy Synod commiti. especially long praises books and so forth. lol, even the norml songs that are recorded by like Boles Malak, or Sater Mikhael or all those moranimin, their productions are reviewed and put valid for us. if otherwise, the word will get to everyone that maybe this production is not fully valid to use.
Obviously the recording you posted couldnt possibly be a translation of the actual hymn but rather a medayah. Could someone please translate it? This brings me to another question: Do people have the authority to take coptic tunes and implement them on made up words? On what authority are we allowed to do this?
i just wanted to mention that this madeha is not made up by cantor zaher (the one from youth bishopric).it is present in the kiahk psalmody of el moharak monestry and recorded by the monks there on the same tune of "icter magi"
[quote author=Amoussa01 link=topic=6071.msg80810#msg80810 date=1199485444]
Obviously the recording you posted couldnt possibly be a translation of the actual hymn but rather a medayah. Could someone please translate it? This brings me to another question: Do people have the authority to take coptic tunes and implement them on made up words? On what authority are we allowed to do this?
i just wanted to mention that this madeha is not made up by cantor zaher (the one from youth bishopric).it is present in the kiahk psalmody of el moharak monestry and recorded by the monks there on the same tune of "icter magi"
to add to that, i think it was written by Abo el-Saad El-abotigi, the same person who wrote the Kiahk Vespers Praises parts and also many more kiahk hymns.
Iqbal, watch your comments please. In reference to coptichymns.net, they do a great job on that site. Don't criticize the records or the quality. We are supplying the rarest and oldest records, so please be kind in what you say. I take great pride in that site, being that I attend that church where Coptichymns.net originated. You go on it and and participate and answer great questions and ask great questions. So please try to show a little bit more compassion to hard work.
i don't think he did anything ya3ny. he just asked for a better copy. so whats??!!!!
and please don't take it as a criticism.....cuz if it is, i would of helped him on doing soo.