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After Communion...
I have heard that after partaking of the Holy Communion, you cannot bleed (and if you do, you burn the tissue with the blood), you can't get a haircut, swim, cut your nails, or take a shower. Why?
Je Nai Nan
Je Nai Nan
Comments
As I understand it, the idea is that you have consumed Christ and thus He has sanctified every aspect of your body. Thus you are made Holy through the partaking of Him. I personally am not too convinced of this notion as our union with Christ is a mystical union. Some people are just more extreme than others.
[quote author=✞Je Nai Nan✞ link=topic=12494.msg146454#msg146454 date=1319392256]
See ? I agree with you on that one :P
As opposed to...
[quote author=minatasgeel link=topic=12494.msg146458#msg146458 date=1319399512]
first, it is for only 9 hours to not do these things.
Why 9 hours as opposed to say 1 hour or 12 hours or 5 hours? Seems pretty ambiguous to me.
[quote author=minatasgeel link=topic=12494.msg146458#msg146458 date=1319399512]
Bleeding yes.
Why?
[quote author=minatasgeel link=topic=12494.msg146458#msg146458 date=1319399512]
swimming and taking a shower yes because washes your body; it'll be like you are removing the blessing from your body.
How does this work exactly? You can't 'remove' a blessing.
Why 9 hours as opposed to say 1 hour or 12 hours or 5 hours? Seems pretty ambiguous to me.
its the notion that Jesus is still in new in a form of bread an wine. Why?
food /liquids become your blood. it's one BODY.... we receive the blessing/living Holy Spirit through water while He washes off all uncleanness......
[quote author=minatasgeel link=topic=12494.msg146460#msg146460 date=1319401194]
its the notion that Jesus is still in new in a form of bread an wine.
And this ends after 9 hours?
[quote author=minatasgeel link=topic=12494.msg146460#msg146460 date=1319401194]
food /liquids become your blood. it's one BODY....
Um, no they don't. Source
So this doesn't explain why bleeding is frowned upon.
[quote author=minatasgeel link=topic=12494.msg146460#msg146460 date=1319401194]
we receive the blessing/living Holy Spirit through water while He washes off all uncleanness......
Not sure how this explains anything. Can you expand?
I've never asked 'why 9?'; I'm curious now.
all of these things are to give you the ability to respect what you have just consumed, if we treat it with like any food, we will not respect what we just consumed! the important reason why all these rules are present is to be cautious with what you consumed, helping us to be cautious with sin also!
And lol why can we use the restroom within those 9 hours?
Now we know that the Body and Blood is not regular food? It is bread that comes from heaven and gives eternal life. However, this blessing and the grace does not stop because it is eliminated from the body as described above. The blessing and grace is eliminated (or at least distorted) by sin.
What does it matter if you took a shower 9.5 hours after communion, if you cursed your brother 10 minutes after communion? What does it matter if you bleed, especially if it is accidentally when you got a haircut if you never repented? How does burning the napkin you wiped your blood minimize some sort of disrespect? Disrespecting Christ's salvific Body and Blood which you have consumed only occurs with sin (and there's no time limit).
Let us not be so narrow minded. Let us not conform to superficial rules that are neither found in Scripture nor supported by patristic Orthodox wisdom. But let us endeavor to live a deep spiritual life without sin as Christ has called us.
George
[quote author=Remnkemi link=topic=12494.msg146484#msg146484 date=1319430435]
Have we returned to this Jewish/Islamic "haram" mentality again? Who cares if you bleed, spit, swim, or do anything else after communion - whether 5 minutes, 9 hours or 24 hours? These "rules" are too reminiscent of Pharisaical rules of washing and purification. Jesus condemned this haram mentality saying, "Do you not yet understand that whatever enters the mouth goes into the stomach and is eliminated?" Anything that goes into your mouth is eliminated, whether through your stomach, through bleeding, through urine, through sweat. All of it is eliminated. And it doesn't matter how or when. It doesn't matter what physically goes out of your body. What matters is what comes out of your heart. Jesus continues, "For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies. These are the things which defile a man, but to eat with unwashed hands does not defile a man.”
Now we know that the Body and Blood is not regular food? It is bread that comes from heaven and gives eternal life. However, this blessing and the grace does not stop because it is eliminated from the body as described above. The blessing and grace is eliminated (or at least distorted) by sin.
What does it matter if you took a shower 9.5 hours after communion, if you cursed your brother 10 minutes after communion? What does it matter if you bleed, especially if it is accidentally when you got a haircut if you never repented? How does burning the napkin you wiped your blood minimize some sort of disrespect? Disrespecting Christ's salvific Body and Blood which you have consumed only occurs with sin (and there's no time limit).
Let us not be so narrow minded. Let us not conform to superficial rules that are neither found in Scripture nor supported by patristic Orthodox wisdom. But let us endeavor to live a deep spiritual life without sin as Christ has called us.
George
Very well said.
We fast 9 hours before Communion as well.
Everyone knows you're smarter than me in every way, even though you're not Coptic yet.
I'm just the little brat who gets everyone (including myself) in trouble--always.
But seriously... we're fasting today.
Oujai
imagine frowning tant...
;)
about the swimming/ spitting thing, that makes me feel better, coz i took my friends (who are kids) paddling in the sea one day after liturgy (we didn't actually swim). they live very far from the sea, so it felt like a natural thing to do. then their mum freaked out a little and i felt like a naughty tant!
I truly apologize for all the confusing posts today.
What I was trying to illustrate is that there are rules which define what is "haram" or forbidden. We find them a lot in Jewish and Islamic cultures. This particular 9 hours after communion is a pseudo-custom because it is not defined anywhere, there is no biblical or patristic support and deep down it doesn't make sense. The last part is what I was really trying to illustrate.
This so-and-so-custom-is-forbidden mentality, which anti-Christian, is propagated by lack of knowledge. This mentality frowns upon questioning the validity of such pseudo-rules and fosters a sort of fear that the angry God will send me to hell for breaking this forbidden rule. This is not the Christian God who desires mercy and love.
The intention of such "forbidden" mentality at first must be good. These rules seem to start out respecting God. They were created to appease God. But because of ignorance and lack of knowledge, it is actually appeasing the wrong god. Experience shows us that practicing these doesn't stop people from disrespecting God by sinning. Experience shows us that people get sucked into "I AM do something wrong because I MAY unintentionally violate the rule" as Mabsoota told us that mother felt.
I am not saying we shouldn't care if our brother curses after communion. And sinning is not confined to Jewish or Islamic mentality. And I am not saying how we behave doesn't matter. I am saying this mentality distracts us from repentance and gives a false sense of "doing something right" that is based on a wrong understanding, irrationality, and ignorance of God. The Bible is clear. A contrite and repentant heart is more important than burnt sacrifices, acts of goodness is more important than worrying how I might be offending God, and love is more important than condemnation and judgment.
You asked what is the right and informed practice. That's hard to answer because I am talking about the forbidden mentality, not really about one forbidden custom. All I can say is that right practices are biblicly and patristicly supported, make rational sense and help people grow, not fear or be judged haphazardly.
Does that make sense?
PS. Jeremy if you need my help getting back at TITL, let me know in a pm.
I was told this story by a monk who met one of the deacons in the story:
2 Deacons and their priest (a famous priest whose name shall remain concealed) had finished tasbeha late one night and were saying goodbye in a parking lot. A car came up having a parishioner and his wife. The parishioner tells Father that his wife is talking life a man. So Abouna knew exactly what it was. So he told the two deacons to go inside church and to stay in the altar saying Lord Have Mercy. This deacon recalls what he heard outside. The priest asked the demon why he possessed the woman and he said, "She hadn't taken communion for forty days, she is liable to possession." He then asked about the billions who have never taken communion once and the devil answered "I enter them the day they are born."
The story continues, but the part I want to highlight comes up in the above. Although the devil is not restricted by times, the fact that the church says something, the devil has to obey it. The way I see it is that the church says something, and out of the Love of God for the church, he binds the devil by it. That is why the devil claimed that her liability arose after 40 days.
Of course this story may be questioned, and therefor the message it preaches may also be questioned. But if it is true, it exhibits the importance of following the church's rules.
Please don't teach me about how story get twisted or all that stuff. I know all that. I personally follow all of the rules for the sake of my conscience.
ReturnOrthodoxy
[quote author=returnorthodoxy link=topic=12494.msg146562#msg146562 date=1319516856]
Hey guys,
I was told this story by a monk who met one of the deacons in the story:
2 Deacons and their priest (a famous priest whose name shall remain concealed) had finished tasbeha late one night and were saying goodbye in a parking lot. A car came up having a parishioner and his wife. The parishioner tells Father that his wife is talking life a man. So Abouna knew exactly what it was. So he told the two deacons to go inside church and to stay in the altar saying Lord Have Mercy. This deacon recalls what he heard outside. The priest asked the demon why he possessed the woman and he said, "She hadn't taken communion for forty days, she is liable to possession." He then asked about the billions who have never taken communion once and the devil answered "I enter them the day they are born."
The story continues, but the part I want to highlight comes up in the above. Although the devil is not restricted by times, the fact that the church says something, the devil has to obey it. The way I see it is that the church says something, and out of the Love of God for the church, he binds the devil by it. That is why the devil claimed that her liability arose after 40 days.
Of course this story may be questioned, and therefor the message it preaches may also be questioned. But if it is true, it exhibits the importance of following the church's rules.
Please don't teach me about how story get twisted or all that stuff. I know all that. I personally follow all of the rules for the sake of my conscience.
I think the point is that the Church doesn't say anything when it comes to these rules. There are no canons that state it, there is no Patristic precedent for it and there is nothing in the Tradition of the Church about them. There is, however, a precedent based on the Traditions of the Church about the risks of not taking communion after 40 days (though because of God's mercy, circumstances do play a factor). That is the difference between what has been discussed in this thread and your story.