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Father, Son, And Holy Spirit

PopeKyrillosPopeKyrillos
edited December 1969 in Faith Issues
Hey everyone,

For sure, God the Father existed before all ages. However, did the Son exist before all ages also? I know that he was present before the creation of the world, but was he present at all times, just as the Father was? And does the same apply to the Holy Spirit? Again, I know it was present before the creation of the world, and was present at creation, as mentioned in Genesis, but did it exist before all ages, along with God the Father?

PK

Comments

  • ilovesaintmarkilovesaintmark
    Yes. 

    "...The Only-Begotten Son of the Father before all ages; Light out of Light; (etc.)"

    "...We believe in the Holy Spirit, Lord Giver of Life, Who proceeds from the Father..."

  • ilovesaintmarkilovesaintmark
    The Holy Spirit should never be referred to as "It".  The Holy Spirit is a Person of the Trinity.  The Holy Spirit is a "He".
  • Cyril97Cyril97
    It could be a she... I mean, who knows???
    Anyways, I think that this verse help!?!
    Genesis 1:26 (New King James Version)
    Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.”
    I don't know if this verse has any significanse to your inquiry but it answered this question for me...
    God bless, Pray for me,
    Cyril
  • jydeaconjydeacon
    [quote author=Cyril97 link=topic=10147.msg124037#msg124037 date=1291854352]
    It could be a she... I mean, who knows???


    It most definetely cannot be a SHE. And as Ilovesaintmark said, you shouldn't refer to the Holy Spirit as it, but as He.

    PopeKyrillos

    Yes, the Son and the Holy Spirit Existed before all ages together. There was not a time when One or the Other was not.
  • Cyril97Cyril97
    That was a joke...
    The Holy Spirit has no gender...
    It is not human, as the name indicates, it is a SPIRIT.
  • sherrymikhail04sherrymikhail04
    I don't know about you all, but i find it very difficult to refer to Holy Spirit as "He"...

    Is my above sentence correct... do I not include "the" in front of "Holy Spirit"? Does it make sense? I think if I replaced "Holy Spirit" with "Jesus" it would sound like a "He" and not an "it" e.g. "I find it difficult to refer to Jesus as....". Does this make sense at all?

    Do I make sense? lol

    Cheers
  • PopeKyrillosPopeKyrillos
    Well, this brings up another subject. There is no way that the Holy Spirit can be a HE or a SHE. It is genderless! Only Jesus was a man, and he had a gender. So for that matter, God the Father is not a HE either. God is spirit.
  • ilovesaintmarkilovesaintmark
    The use of the pronoun "He" is to ascribe persona and not a gender.  In the Lord Jesus' case it is indicative of persona and gender.
  • anba bolaanba bola
    In regards to the Holy Spirit and Christ, the Logos always existing, I have read several things on this. In the book the Nature of Christ by Pope Shenouda he describes that although the word Logos means Word, it also means Logic or Wisdom.

    This means Christ is the Father's wisdom, which He indeed is called in Proverbs ("Wisdom has built Her house, She has hewn out Her seven pillars" -the seven pillars refer to the sacraments of the church, the House of Christ, read Provrbs 9 for more). Now if Christ is the Father's wisdom He must have always been around as God couldn't be there without his wisdom. And if the Father created Christ at a point in time, then by what Wisdom did he do this.

    I heard Metropolitan Bishoy say once that in the Holy Trinity there is the Wise-The Father, the Wisdom-the Son, and the Spirt of Wisdom-the Holy Spirit. I think he quoted this from St. Athanasius but I'm not sure.

    Please Pray for me
  • ZoxsasiZoxsasi
    [quote author=PopeKyrillos link=topic=10147.msg124027#msg124027 date=1291853486]
    Hey everyone,

    For sure, God the Father existed before all ages. However, did the Son exist before all ages also?


    Of course! Be careful as to not fall in the heresy of Arius.Arius came to the false conclusion that if Christ was the "Son" of God, then as a "Son", it meant that at some point, He didn't exist.

    That is not right.

    Christ is the eternally begotten Son of the Father. That means he is a perpetual Son, to a Perpetual Father. It means that, if you like, the Father is the Source, from which proceeds His Word.

    Its like saying - was there a time that your mind existed without your hands??

    From the mind, comes the will to make the hands write something, do something, act in some way.

    The term "Son", in the case of Theology, means to proceed from. It doesn't mean that God gave birth to a Son.  No. Not at all.

    We worship ONE God - who exists in a Triune nature. Its not the easiest of things to understand - but that's fine. It shouldn't be the easiest to understand either.



    I know that he was present before the creation of the world, but was he present at all times, just as the Father was? And does the same apply to the Holy Spirit?

    YES. Of course.


    Again, I know it was present before the creation of the world, and was present at creation, as mentioned in Genesis, but did it exist before all ages, along with God the Father?

    YES

    Remember what our Lord said to His Apostles:

    "Baptise them in the NAME of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit"

    He didn't say : "Baptise them in the NameS (plural) of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit"

    We are baptised in the NAME (singular) of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

    There are a lot of good threads in Tasbeha.org concerning this issue. Try to do a search and see what's there.
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