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Correct Coptic Pronunciation.. Epi-eprosevkees- stasi te
Well here is the thing, mo3alem ibrahim ayad (C.I.A) and the then deacon nader kamal and many others say it epi- eprosevshees- stasi te. But i hear Epi-eprosevkees- stasi te and almost every deacon in my church says it this way (eve the old deacons who have been deacons for 40yrs +).
So which way is correct
PPFM
So which way is correct
PPFM
Comments
Anyhow, [coptic]epi proceu,y cta;yte[/coptic] according to Modern Greek pronunciation I'm pretty sure should be:
Epi Pros-evKHee Sta-thee-te (Kh as in buteeKH in Arabic)
PFM
Could you plz also tell of the rule as to why it is "khee" and not "shee" if u know it.
Thanks heaps!
It's: CIA[sup]©[/sup]
oh....he's not the one who started this.
we only think so because he's the one who recorded it and made it famous.
[quote author=Pi Onkh link=topic=10167.msg124376#msg124376 date=1292243079]
Thanks for the explanation Epchoice nai nan!
Could you plz also tell of the rule as to why it is "khee" and not "shee" if u know it.
Thanks heaps!
Well that's just how Modern Greek works I think - I've never studied it but in recordings of modern Greek hymns they always pronounce the letter [coptic],[/coptic] as a KH. In Coptic words though, it's either a 'k' or a 'sh' but since I, like Ophadece prefer Old Bohairic I always pronounce it as 'k'.
[quote author=Chirsts' servant link=topic=10167.msg124372#msg124372 date=1292233954]
Awwww... so Epi Pros-evKHee Sta-thee-te is greek. Does that mean that Epi Pros-evSHee Sta-thee-te is Coptic? because thats what i hear C.I.A saying.
Nope - the whole phrase is pure Greek, no Coptic at all - the ProsevSHee is just a mispronunciation based on how the same letter sometimes sounds in Coptic words - even though in Coptic it should be 'k' all the time. Lol it's very confusing having Greek and Coptic together in the same font - I reckon we use a different font to make it easier to recognise the difference.
Hope that helps,
PFM
I like pronouncing it with a "z". It makes for more effect.
no....noo...and NOOO!!!
[quote author=TITL link=topic=10167.msg124402#msg124402 date=1292259618]
Mina should also yell at Zoxsasi for pronouncing Thoxsasi with a "z".
i'd rather not. i think there are enough egys that deal with this. actually, pronouncing the "theeta" is harder for arabic speaking ppl. "seeta" all the way to them.
ALOS: in general, i am not that strict with pronunciation.....i try my best to say things rit....but sometimes when you try tooo hard you find yourself NOT praying and sometime simply messing up everything you are saying (alhan wise)....just check many of the recordings of HCOC.
I so happen to be in the HCOC.
I am a fairly new member but I really like it...
Is there anything that happened that I should know about?
Please stop criticizing HCOC because you don't know thru how
much trouble and effort the group goes to (especially Albair) to make
this productions.
I agree that each person should have his/her opinion but if you don't
like this group, please stop bashing it and just don't listen to it.
With all due respect, please don't talk negative about this group.
I apologize if I seem a little mean but I really hate it when we can't
stop saying negative about each other and each others work and we are from
the same religion: Christianity.
Where is the Christian love and the one that our Lord showed us very well
and taught us to do especially with each other.
I hope I didn't offened anybody by saying this.
If I did. I am sorry.
Cyril
What does the forum have against HCOC?
I so happen to be in the HCOC.
I am a fairly new member but I really like it...
Is there anything that happened that I should know about?
Please stop criticizing HCOC because you don't know thru how
much trouble and effort the group goes to (especially Albair) to make
this productions.
I agree that each person should have his/her opinion but if you don't
like this group, please stop bashing it and just don't listen to it.
With all due respect, please don't talk negative about this group.
I apologize if I seem a little mean but I really hate it when we can't
stop saying negative about each other and each others work and we are from
the same religion: Christianity.
well i wouldn't calling it "criticizing"...hehe...actually haven't said much at all about what i think about you guys.
trust me when i say that i know the amount of work you guys go through.....you are not the only person i know in that choir.....i know many other and actually met a couple of ppl from there.
but at everybody that criticizes this group.
I really don't like criticizim. At least the way it is done here. (not constructive)
God bless, Pray for me,
Cyril
Sorry, I didn't really mean this at you (minagir)
but at everybody that criticizes this group.
I really don't like criticizim. At least the way it is done here. (not constructive)
well...actually not much ppl do on here simply because they don't know much about the process you guys go through....mostly just me and ophedace and a couple of other ppl.
"constructive" comments WERE MADE BEFORE but no one pays attention.....and I KNOW that many people from the chorus look at the forum every once in a while especially when a product comes out.
[quote author=TITL link=topic=10167.msg124378#msg124378 date=1292248536]
CIA[sup]©[/sup]
LOL :D
On a seperate note, i think the coptic church should remove any Greek language used and substitute it with Coptic. After all we are should be using our mother language (Coptic).
I know this sounds ridiculous, considering that alot of hymns are completely in greek, and we shouldn't question/change what the church has instituted for 1000 of years. But i dont like how greek is sometimes mixed with coptic, and this has caused alot of debate in the past, which had separated deacons (over the different pronunciations ;as i heard from my friend).
On i completely different note. I heard that the lahn (tune) 'Gholgotha' is actually passed down from the pharaohs i.e when a pharaoh passed away, they would sing/ lament with the same tune used in 'Gholgotha'. Is this fact or fiction??
On i completely different note. I heard that the lahn (tune) 'Gholgotha' is actually passed down from the pharaohs i.e when a pharaoh passed away, they would sing/ lament with the same tune used in 'Gholgotha'. Is this fact or fiction??
Fact! :)
[quote author=Chirsts' servant link=topic=10167.msg124453#msg124453 date=1292307002]
On i completely different note. I heard that the lahn (tune) 'Gholgotha' is actually passed down from the pharaohs i.e when a pharaoh passed away, they would sing/ lament with the same tune used in 'Gholgotha'. Is this fact or fiction??
Fact! :)
WOW! :o How does something so old get passed on for soo long!
[quote author=Chirsts' servant link=topic=10167.msg124453#msg124453 date=1292307002]
On i completely different note. I heard that the lahn (tune) 'Gholgotha' is actually passed down from the pharaohs i.e when a pharaoh passed away, they would sing/ lament with the same tune used in 'Gholgotha'. Is this fact or fiction??
Fact! :)
nope. It is Ep-oro not gholghotha.
Cyril
Why would they sing Epouro- Joyful hymn for a departed?
Cyril
the story behind is that it was composed for the son of the Pharaoh when he died. ancient egyptians believe that ppl will be raised after their death. so there was the sadness of them passing away but also the joy of them getting to that better place.
DEar Christ's servant,
It can actually be pronounced both ways. The letter "x" in Greek as ebshoisnainan rightly said is pronounced in their language as kh, but for Coptic it's either sh or k. LIke for example shara na MARIa and awka or awshaya for prayer in COptic. REMember please that there was more than one dialect and of course as ebshoisnainan pointed out I'm not referring to Greco-bohairic.
DEAr CYril 97,
PLEAse don't be oversensitive. OUR criticisms are usually delivered in a Christian manner and what we all seek is perfection but obviously that's very difficult.
DEAr MINA,
BOth ebouro and gholghotha are taken from the pharaohs.
It doesn't really attain perfection because evrything you say it stricly discussed in THIS forum.
How would it attain perfection if no one passes this on?
GB, PFM,
Cyril
@orphadece
It doesn't really attain perfection because evrything you say it stricly discussed in THIS forum.
How would it attain perfection if no one passes this on?
GB, PFM,
Cyril
http://tasbeha.org/content/community/index.php?topic=7527.msg99076#msg99076
look to what i said...forget that. i have emailed many people from the chorus certain problems....
bas what else do i say: whoever wants to do something today they just do it....outside egypt where there is no restrictions on anything.
That's right and a fact I learnt as well is that not only the gholghotha tune was used in burying the kings but ebouro in enthroning them.
DEar Cyril97,
Even if discussions only take place in forums people like yourself may debate them and take some of them on board if not Mr. Albair himself. ACtually the point Mina mentions is a very valid one: the fact HCOC is flourishing is because it's outside Egypt. There are many factors to have helped that happen, and you as may other people not be able to read Arabic fluently, and therefore you aren't able to get access to other cantors' teachings which makes people think Mr. Albair is doing something unprecedented... if I may, I'd say I don't like some of the notes (hazzat) in some very familiar hymns. And by the way why Copticise some Arabic melodies? Are they going to be adopted by the church because the Holy Synod may be persuaded or because he translated it in his deacon's service book. Sorry, I know I sound so mean, but I don't mean it this way: I just hope I don't experience the day when some people have an influence on the church without the congregation agreeing completely
Was she in right for telling him off, because i guess if the leading deacon does something wrong then he sets a bad example.
However even if we are not allowed, why can't we sing a joyful hymn during Holy Communion that gets the whole congregation singing.
PPFM
I forgot to mention something before, which is the "s" sound for "th". That is actually an Arabic influence on the formal Arabic, rather than Coptic influence on such. The letter [coptic];[/coptic] was pronounced as /teita/ which is the origin why we call our mothers, or grandmothers for that matter "teita" - as the word [coptic]`;mau [/coptic] starts with that letter. Also Arabic words like "tha3lab" becomes "ta3lab", "thalathah" becomes "talatah", "ethnain" becomes "etnein", and so on. That actually proves Fr. Shenouda's teachings in how the [coptic]; [/coptic] is pronounced in Coptic.
Now Christ's servant, as for the Communion hymns, yes Minagir said that the practice varies from one church to another but my understanding is that you cannot say Arabic melodies during Communion, which is TOTALLY WRONG. However, when you run out of time saying psalm 150 (in different languages), and [coptic]piwik [/coptic] in annual days, and specific hymns as [coptic]je `f`cmarwout [/coptic] (which is the minimum requirement for any occasion), and [coptic]`fem`psa gar [/coptic] for example in Kiahk, then you can follow that up by singing Kiahk doxologies, or saints' doxologies. Doxologies are allowed, provided they are for specific occasions. As for the last point, though, glorification during Communion I think is incorrect, and some people yes sing "amdah felbatool" and the like, basing their argument on saying [coptic],ere ne Maria [/coptic] within [coptic]fem`psa gar [/coptic] for example, or saints' doxologies and so on - but apparently they don't bother saying the latter anyway.
[coptic]oujai qen `P[C[/coptic]