[quote author=the_least link=topic=10278.msg125524#msg125524 date=1293502150] Well then I guess that every time the pope, or your bishop, or your priest want to send out a message for everyone in the diaspora, or the diocese, or the church, you're going to be excluded.
Oh no, the Coptic church unorganized, what will I do? LOL come on man! The site gives us no clue as to what its actual purpose is.
And abanoub, we are Orthodox and that should unite us not phony politics.
If the site were done a little more professional, no silly videos trying to influence us into thinking this site will change the way the world works, I might actually care. I mean, atleast give me some credit here I am being honest and telling you that I think its absurd as opposed to lying to your face.
[quote author=Father Peter link=topic=10278.msg125457#msg125457 date=1293460957] I guess what confuses me is the confusion between ethnic community and church community. I know that to some great extent this might be the same for Copts, especially those not in the West.
I suppose I understand your point. the term coptic itself is actually a very interesting one, because I reply that I'm coptic both when people ask me about my ethnicity and my religion. In the case o this site, I think it's refering to the church community.
I think your main objection had to do with the business orientation of the site, and I think I can clear that up. a few months ago, we had a few families come up from Egypt. They emailed the church and said that they were coming. E-mails were then send out from the church to all the members, and everyone who could do something for the families did. Some members of our church went and looked for schools for the children, others got in contact with the families and became more acquainted with their financial situations and look for apartments for them, some went furniture shopping, others started looking for jobs for them, some of the parents would have to go back to school because their egyptian degrees were unacceptable, and they would need financial support during that time, etc. When the families arrived they had a much easier time adapting to life here.
I mentioned all of this to explain why the site might include so many business things. I think the intention is to help out families like the one above, not encourage racial preference. The emails from my church were flying back and forth as the time of the families arrival drew near, and I have to admit, having it on a website would have made things much easier.
As to some of the visual criticisms:
while I agree that perhaps its not as professional as we'd like, we can help improve the site and clarify the aims rather than just look down on it. Nothing ever started out perfect ^.^
Is it meant as a political tool? perhaps. I think so. I don't really view that as a negative thing though, a little more political organization would certainly do us some good. Whether to help Egypt, or to uphold our christian values in our own countries.
To anyone who had a hand in copticworld, I really appreciate your effort, and intentions
[quote author=Father Peter link=topic=10278.msg125581#msg125581 date=1293555258] It is still not clear to me what the aim of the site is?
How does it achieve more than any of the US sites like lacopts or suscopts?
Father Peter
In all of Canada there is not one single diocese and I'm sure there are places in the states that are not part of a diocese.
Also, let's say I'm a pharmacist in Egypt and I want to immigrate to a certain city in Canada because my brother lives there, instead of getting the local priest to spend his time finding me other pharmacists that can help me, I can do that myself with with a few clicks. You may ask, 'why do they have to be Coptic?'. First. they can speak the same language as me, we are both orthodox, and they've probably been through the whole transition process both socially and in the career itself and they can provide me with good guidance.
Also, Instead of googling churches in a certain place, you can easily find them on the website.
Also, the idea of how the pope can instantly send a message to EVERY Copt in the world. And every bishop to his diocese and priest to his church.
And I'm sure there are more features and even more will be coming.
Also, Ioannes, just because you think the video made it seem more "revolutionary" ;D than it really is, it doesn't mean you have to hate on it.
Also, for the others before who commented on the use of Coptic letters as decoration, has anyone provided them with feedback on why this is not appropriate?
I'm usually of a suspicious thought about things. I find that when things are not fully disclosed, I am skeptical that there is a hidden agenda or for that matter a nefarious intent.
Nothing is simple anymore. The innocence of childhood is over. The internet makes for adult thinking all the time.
I am one of the originators of CopticWorld.org. I have been reading your thread and I want to clear up your misconceptions.
The idea for this site was presented to the Pope by Bishop David, Father Anastasi (St Anthony's monastery in California) and myself in 2007. The pictures of the meeting can be found in the facebook group called. CopticWorld.org. This initiative is centered in St Anthony's monastery. Bishop Youssef later became involved as the idea became larger. Bishop Serapion knows of the project and has been in meetings concerning this project, is supportive of it, but is not directly involved. I urge you to speak with any of those I mentioned to prove to yourselves the ligitimacy of this project.
I do appologize for the fact that an address has not been posted yet and this will be done in the "Contact Us" section. But so that you know it is St Anthony's Monastery/CopticWorld.org, PO BOX 1549, Barstow, CA, 92312.
This is not a political website. CopticWorld.org doesn't take any political stance. It is simply a platform that allows people to gather together in one place. The statistics derived from the site including numbers of people by location in the world is a census only made available to clergy and leaders of clergy. What they do with that information is up to them. This is information that is requested by the clergy and leaders of clergy as they think it will help the global/local Coptic church(s). If this is what the leaders think is beneficial, than neither you nor I can argue against it. So its incumbent upon us to help them get this information. This information will not be made available to the users and so it cannot be used politically.
As for the logo, its not the final one. However due to money constraints, we opted to leave it for now and concentrate on the functionality of the site. I hope you can pray that God can send resources so we can come up with a better logo.
As for the other features of the site, why is it a bad thing to be able to stream other churches? Why is it a bad thing to allow our people to network by their professions. Why cant we find coptic roomates when we need them. Wouldnt it be nice to know what trips or events are happening locally and in other churches? These features will only help our people. Posting up videos of church events or audio sermons will not hurt anybody... The site does not force anyone to go to a coptic hairsylist or accountant etc... It just gives you the option to know where one is if you chose to go to one. I dont see anything racist about that as Father Peter Farrington has alluded. This site offers a place where we can all benefit, share and become closer together.
I dont want to appear as if I am trying to defend a site that is blessed by the Pope himself as well as the mentioned Bishops! We should all respect that. The church teaches us to heed our elders. While I do appreciate the thread that you have and I will try my best to take all your criticisms in order to improve the site as much as possible, I do think it is against the spirit of the church. Better to build than destroy. Its easy to "boycott" something without checking it out first. This decision takes a second to make. Its a lot harder to stick to an idea for four years and actually see it to completion. I chose the latter...
I can tell that Ioannes has not been on the site to see why its revolutionary or how it will connect us together as others have. I will let the site itself answer these questions for him.
This is now a part of the Monastery of St Anthony but is going to be pulled out to become its own non-for-profit organization. Father Peter Farrington this will take a little time so please be patient with us. It is in the works. The cost of this site was funded by donations as permitted by Bishops David, Youssef and Serapion. Our youth have worked exceedingly hard and presented in close to a hundred churches to help fund this project. Please dont underestimate the hard work that went into this project by making radical assumptions and demeaning words on your threads.
Please contact Bishop David and Bishop Youssef as they are presenting this project in their churches.
Lets build and not destroy. God bless Tasbeha.org for their great online effort!
thanks for mentioning me! Yes I have been on the site, I watched the senseless video that really gave us no idea as to what exactly the website is for. Judging by your writing style you seem highly offended at our criticisms, good. The site was poorly presented and a clear picture was not given to us, why do you think the majority of the people that posted here were utterly confused? I most likely would never use the site no matter how "revolutionary" it is, converts dont really have a place in coptic culture and society, I wouldnt expect this site to change anything in that department. The more people here that are pro-copticworld speak, the less I like it.
[quote author=Ioannes link=topic=10278.msg125749#msg125749 date=1293689859] Judging by your writing style you seem highly offended at our criticisms, good.
WHAT??? You're happy that he's offended???
Plus, to me he doesn't seem offended, he said, "I will try my best to take all your criticisms in order to improve the site as much as possible".
[quote author=Ioannes link=topic=10278.msg125749#msg125749 date=1293689859] converts dont really have a place in coptic culture and society
They DO have a place, but some tend to exclude themselves for no reason. Don't be one of them!
Please dont underestimate the hard work that went into this project by making radical assumptions and demeaning words on your threads.
If so then I am a little confused because I have tried hard not to pre-judge the site, and only asked questions.
Indeed I said..
I can see the benefit of a global directory, but it is the stress on having power in numbers that confuses me.
so I do see the benefit of a global directory and said so.
I also said..
It seems to me that it is a website with political and social aims in view, and this therefore trying to accumulate numbers. I am not sure that it is for me as a non-ethnic-Copt to say if that is right or wrong, appropriate or inappropriate.
Now if this is what it looks like to me, and perhaps to others, then I would recommend that you make it more clear on the site what the aims are. I said only 'seems' and 'not sure'. That does not seem to be an absolute criticism. A business cannot criticise potential customers if they do not understand what a new product is about.
Many of the posters on this thread and not entirely negative, just confused.
Personally, I do find the idea of visiting only a Coptic hair-stylist rather wrong. I am delighted to work with people whom I discover are Christian, and even more so (though it rarely happens) when I discover they are Orthodox. But it would feel wrong for me to only patronise ethnically British people. Or to have a list of ethnically British business people on a website. The very fact of such a list seems to me to be problematic. I could understand someone offering to be a volunteer to help immigrants for free and having their name and email listed, but if it is just a business directory then that makes me feel odd.
The Church networking things are commendable. I said several times that a global directory of ALL Orthodox Churches would be very useful.
I wish you well with this project and that you will be able to take on board some of the thoughts on this thread.
I think that the things you mentioned in your post on this thread help in clearing some of the confusion, but it also points to major weaknesses in the presentation of the website.
I think the Logo, being the first presentation to your website, says a lot. I hold considerable reservation just by that fact alone. My other comments have been some what answered, but it really should have been on the website. I do challenge that over the course of four years, as you stated, these very simple things would have been addressed. I ascribe to dealing with the simple first, and then going on to the more difficult and glorious as a progression from that point of achievement.
I would also add that it is not my necessity that I go searching for documents of mandate or even to call hierarchs to identify their facilitations to this endeavor. I would think that things would be self-presented and explanatory in one locale, i.e., the actual website. I wish you well on the project, no different than Fr. Peter's comments, hoping that its tangible fruits are for the glory of the Coptic Church.
DEar Emad, Thanks for presenting yourself to us as one of the website builders. Although I'm not sure what resources you're talking about for changing the logo but I don't presume it's so hard by changing it at least on the website first. It is an insult to my ancestors' language to find a meaningless phrase on one of the websites saying "sortis shorld". If Coptic and the Copts mean anything to the builders of such a website then I urge you to consider getting your act together and pay heed to the language not to misuse it for the sake of decoration. Hope I'm clear enough, and yes as my undertone of my words convey: I'm deeply offended and disappointed.
Thank you everyone for your constructive criticisms. I will try my hardest to achieve your wishes in order to improve the presentation of the idea as well as the logo. If anyone has any specific ideas, please send them. Please don't be offended at any short coming and know that this is a work in progress which will continue to improve with all your feedback. God Bless.
Personally, I do find the idea of visiting only a Coptic hair-stylist rather wrong. I am delighted to work with people whom I discover are Christian, and even more so (though it rarely happens) when I discover they are Orthodox. But it would feel wrong for me to only patronise ethnically British people. Or to have a list of ethnically British business people on a website. The very fact of such a list seems to me to be problematic. I could understand someone offering to be a volunteer to help immigrants for free and having their name and email listed, but if it is just a business directory then that makes me feel odd.
Abouna I think this is more aimed at Egyptians, especially in foreign countries.
For you I guess it is different, you understand the language in your country and can get around easily.
But for a person who just moved to the country maybe a coptic hairstylist would be easier to communicate with. (and egyptians in general just tend to like other egyptians)
The Least, thank you for pointing out that it is converts fault that we are excluded, that we exclude ourselves. This is the mentality I am talking about, any time I bring this subject up this is the exact same response I get. I really wish you would have said that this site would have services for converts. I realize there is not a large number of converts in the Coptic Orthodox church so you have no inclination to put anything on the website that might make them think the church cares. Once again I am out, I hate your attitude and I think you know where you can put this website.
Ioannes, don't be so disrespectful, Emad spent 4 years putting this site together, no matter the quality you should never talk like this. You have this website, so why are you cranky?
Well at first it was more sarcasm as I thought that the website was a joke, honestly I did. The Least seemed to take this personally as well as Emad. Again I am still having a difficult time with the church so that may be why I am so cranky an unwilling to listen.
Ioannes, all I have to say is wow. You are a representative of Christ, you have a quote about the church and God under your picture, and you say things like, "Once again I am out, I hate your attitude and I think you know where you can put this website." You should be ashamed of yourself! How Christian-like are you? Are you really talking like that about a church project? You call it cranky, I call it low and disgusting. You are really disrespectful and I've never seen such poor attitude. You should be supportive of your fellow Coptic brothers and sisters trying to do something good for the church... especially since this is a project overseen by His Grace Bishop Youseff and His Grace Bishop David. I leave you with this: “He who sustains his neighbor, sustains himself” (The Life of Saint Issa, 10:9). AND “… Truly I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it (did not help) to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me” (Matt 25:45). If you have nothing nice to say, don't say it at all! I pray you find peace within yourself and get rid of your anger.
God bless and God bless Copticworld. It is a wonderful project meant to help our people and our church that has given us so many blessings!
Ioannes, I apologize for any offences. Just to let you know, I had nothing to do with the website, I just received the e-mail like TITL and when I took a look, I though it was a fantastic idea. Therefore, there is no reason for me to take it personally, I was just trying to defend what I think is right.
To be honest, when I see converts in the Coptic Church, I feel this deep deep joy within me, and especially when I see converts that have become deacons and clergy members.
I actually have no idea what I meant when I said what I did. Honestly, I just thought it was a good come-back... LOL
In every church in the west now, there are services for converts. Even in my little tiny church we have a bible-study-type service that is aimed at converts and we diligently keep it running even though there is only an average of about 5 people that attend.
Here in Canada, one of the priests took initiative and started building a whole church just for converts because he saw how some of them can't seem to fit in.
What I'm saying is that our church is always open to anyone.
Concerning the logo, you can have a competition where Copts all around the world who are good with graphics can make a logo and submit it and then you can choose the best one or have everyone vote on what they think is the best one.
Comments
Well then I guess that every time the pope, or your bishop, or your priest want to send out a message for everyone in the diaspora, or the diocese, or the church, you're going to be excluded.
Oh no, the Coptic church unorganized, what will I do? LOL come on man! The site gives us no clue as to what its actual purpose is.
And abanoub, we are Orthodox and that should unite us not phony politics.
If the site were done a little more professional, no silly videos trying to influence us into thinking this site will change the way the world works, I might actually care. I mean, atleast give me some credit here I am being honest and telling you that I think its absurd as opposed to lying to your face.
I guess what confuses me is the confusion between ethnic community and church community. I know that to some great extent this might be the same for Copts, especially those not in the West.
I suppose I understand your point. the term coptic itself is actually a very interesting one, because I reply that I'm coptic both when people ask me about my ethnicity and my religion. In the case o this site, I think it's refering to the church community.
I think your main objection had to do with the business orientation of the site, and I think I can clear that up. a few months ago, we had a few families come up from Egypt. They emailed the church and said that they were coming. E-mails were then send out from the church to all the members, and everyone who could do something for the families did. Some members of our church went and looked for schools for the children, others got in contact with the families and became more acquainted with their financial situations and look for apartments for them, some went furniture shopping, others started looking for jobs for them, some of the parents would have to go back to school because their egyptian degrees were unacceptable, and they would need financial support during that time, etc. When the families arrived they had a much easier time adapting to life here.
I mentioned all of this to explain why the site might include so many business things. I think the intention is to help out families like the one above, not encourage racial preference. The emails from my church were flying back and forth as the time of the families arrival drew near, and I have to admit, having it on a website would have made things much easier.
As to some of the visual criticisms:
while I agree that perhaps its not as professional as we'd like, we can help improve the site and clarify the aims rather than just look down on it. Nothing ever started out perfect ^.^
Is it meant as a political tool? perhaps. I think so. I don't really view that as a negative thing though, a little more political organization would certainly do us some good. Whether to help Egypt, or to uphold our christian values in our own countries.
To anyone who had a hand in copticworld, I really appreciate your effort, and intentions
Is there a true commission from the Church or an association?
It is still not clear to me what the aim of the site is?
How does it achieve more than any of the US sites like lacopts or suscopts?
Father Peter
[quote author=Father Peter link=topic=10278.msg125581#msg125581 date=1293555258]
It is still not clear to me what the aim of the site is?
How does it achieve more than any of the US sites like lacopts or suscopts?
Father Peter
In all of Canada there is not one single diocese and I'm sure there are places in the states that are not part of a diocese.
Also, let's say I'm a pharmacist in Egypt and I want to immigrate to a certain city in Canada because my brother lives there, instead of getting the local priest to spend his time finding me other pharmacists that can help me, I can do that myself with with a few clicks. You may ask, 'why do they have to be Coptic?'. First. they can speak the same language as me, we are both orthodox, and they've probably been through the whole transition process both socially and in the career itself and they can provide me with good guidance.
Also, Instead of googling churches in a certain place, you can easily find them on the website.
Also, the idea of how the pope can instantly send a message to EVERY Copt in the world. And every bishop to his diocese and priest to his church.
And I'm sure there are more features and even more will be coming.
Also, Ioannes, just because you think the video made it seem more "revolutionary" ;D than it really is, it doesn't mean you have to hate on it.
Also, for the others before who commented on the use of Coptic letters as decoration, has anyone provided them with feedback on why this is not appropriate?
Nothing is simple anymore. The innocence of childhood is over. The internet makes for adult thinking all the time.
I am one of the originators of CopticWorld.org. I have been reading your thread and I want to clear up your misconceptions.
The idea for this site was presented to the Pope by Bishop David, Father Anastasi (St Anthony's monastery in California) and myself in 2007. The pictures of the meeting can be found in the facebook group called. CopticWorld.org. This initiative is centered in St Anthony's monastery. Bishop Youssef later became involved as the idea became larger. Bishop Serapion knows of the project and has been in meetings concerning this project, is supportive of it, but is not directly involved. I urge you to speak with any of those I mentioned to prove to yourselves the ligitimacy of this project.
I do appologize for the fact that an address has not been posted yet and this will be done in the "Contact Us" section. But so that you know it is St Anthony's Monastery/CopticWorld.org, PO BOX 1549, Barstow, CA, 92312.
This is not a political website. CopticWorld.org doesn't take any political stance. It is simply a platform that allows people to gather together in one place. The statistics derived from the site including numbers of people by location in the world is a census only made available to clergy and leaders of clergy. What they do with that information is up to them. This is information that is requested by the clergy and leaders of clergy as they think it will help the global/local Coptic church(s). If this is what the leaders think is beneficial, than neither you nor I can argue against it. So its incumbent upon us to help them get this information. This information will not be made available to the users and so it cannot be used politically.
As for the logo, its not the final one. However due to money constraints, we opted to leave it for now and concentrate on the functionality of the site. I hope you can pray that God can send resources so we can come up with a better logo.
As for the other features of the site, why is it a bad thing to be able to stream other churches? Why is it a bad thing to allow our people to network by their professions. Why cant we find coptic roomates when we need them. Wouldnt it be nice to know what trips or events are happening locally and in other churches? These features will only help our people. Posting up videos of church events or audio sermons will not hurt anybody... The site does not force anyone to go to a coptic hairsylist or accountant etc... It just gives you the option to know where one is if you chose to go to one. I dont see anything racist about that as Father Peter Farrington has alluded. This site offers a place where we can all benefit, share and become closer together.
I dont want to appear as if I am trying to defend a site that is blessed by the Pope himself as well as the mentioned Bishops! We should all respect that. The church teaches us to heed our elders. While I do appreciate the thread that you have and I will try my best to take all your criticisms in order to improve the site as much as possible, I do think it is against the spirit of the church. Better to build than destroy. Its easy to "boycott" something without checking it out first. This decision takes a second to make. Its a lot harder to stick to an idea for four years and actually see it to completion. I chose the latter...
I can tell that Ioannes has not been on the site to see why its revolutionary or how it will connect us together as others have. I will let the site itself answer these questions for him.
This is now a part of the Monastery of St Anthony but is going to be pulled out to become its own non-for-profit organization. Father Peter Farrington this will take a little time so please be patient with us. It is in the works. The cost of this site was funded by donations as permitted by Bishops David, Youssef and Serapion. Our youth have worked exceedingly hard and presented in close to a hundred churches to help fund this project. Please dont underestimate the hard work that went into this project by making radical assumptions and demeaning words on your threads.
Please contact Bishop David and Bishop Youssef as they are presenting this project in their churches.
Lets build and not destroy. God bless Tasbeha.org for their great online effort!
Judging by your writing style you seem highly offended at our criticisms, good.
WHAT??? You're happy that he's offended???
Plus, to me he doesn't seem offended, he said, "I will try my best to take all your criticisms in order to improve the site as much as possible".
[quote author=Ioannes link=topic=10278.msg125749#msg125749 date=1293689859]
converts dont really have a place in coptic culture and society
They DO have a place, but some tend to exclude themselves for no reason. Don't be one of them!
I am not sure if you are addressing this to me... If so then I am a little confused because I have tried hard not to pre-judge the site, and only asked questions.
Indeed I said..
I can see the benefit of a global directory, but it is the stress on having power in numbers that confuses me.
so I do see the benefit of a global directory and said so.
I also said..
It seems to me that it is a website with political and social aims in view, and this therefore trying to accumulate numbers. I am not sure that it is for me as a non-ethnic-Copt to say if that is right or wrong, appropriate or inappropriate.
Now if this is what it looks like to me, and perhaps to others, then I would recommend that you make it more clear on the site what the aims are. I said only 'seems' and 'not sure'. That does not seem to be an absolute criticism. A business cannot criticise potential customers if they do not understand what a new product is about.
Many of the posters on this thread and not entirely negative, just confused.
Personally, I do find the idea of visiting only a Coptic hair-stylist rather wrong. I am delighted to work with people whom I discover are Christian, and even more so (though it rarely happens) when I discover they are Orthodox. But it would feel wrong for me to only patronise ethnically British people. Or to have a list of ethnically British business people on a website. The very fact of such a list seems to me to be problematic. I could understand someone offering to be a volunteer to help immigrants for free and having their name and email listed, but if it is just a business directory then that makes me feel odd.
The Church networking things are commendable. I said several times that a global directory of ALL Orthodox Churches would be very useful.
I wish you well with this project and that you will be able to take on board some of the thoughts on this thread.
Father Peter
I think that the things you mentioned in your post on this thread help in clearing some of the confusion, but it also points to major weaknesses in the presentation of the website.
I think the Logo, being the first presentation to your website, says a lot. I hold considerable reservation just by that fact alone. My other comments have been some what answered, but it really should have been on the website. I do challenge that over the course of four years, as you stated, these very simple things would have been addressed. I ascribe to dealing with the simple first, and then going on to the more difficult and glorious as a progression from that point of achievement.
I would also add that it is not my necessity that I go searching for documents of mandate or even to call hierarchs to identify their facilitations to this endeavor. I would think that things would be self-presented and explanatory in one locale, i.e., the actual website. I wish you well on the project, no different than Fr. Peter's comments, hoping that its tangible fruits are for the glory of the Coptic Church.
Thanks for presenting yourself to us as one of the website builders. Although I'm not sure what resources you're talking about for changing the logo but I don't presume it's so hard by changing it at least on the website first. It is an insult to my ancestors' language to find a meaningless phrase on one of the websites saying "sortis shorld". If Coptic and the Copts mean anything to the builders of such a website then I urge you to consider getting your act together and pay heed to the language not to misuse it for the sake of decoration. Hope I'm clear enough, and yes as my undertone of my words convey: I'm deeply offended and disappointed.
I was thinking the same thing, but I was trying to be diplomatic [for once].
God Blesses--always.
Ophadece has a great spirit and zeal for the delicacies of the Coptic Language. I'm sure he would be more than willing to give input.
Ophadece,
Your welcome...I just volunteered you.
May God bless your and everybody else's efforts.
Dear ilovesaintmark,
A belated THANK YOU ... hehe
For you I guess it is different, you understand the language in your country and can get around easily.
But for a person who just moved to the country maybe a coptic hairstylist would be easier to communicate with. (and egyptians in general just tend to like other egyptians)
Idk, just a thought
I leave you with this:
“He who sustains his neighbor, sustains himself” (The Life of Saint Issa, 10:9).
AND
“… Truly I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it (did not help) to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me” (Matt 25:45).
If you have nothing nice to say, don't say it at all!
I pray you find peace within yourself and get rid of your anger.
God bless and God bless Copticworld. It is a wonderful project meant to help our people and our church that has given us so many blessings!
To be honest, when I see converts in the Coptic Church, I feel this deep deep joy within me, and especially when I see converts that have become deacons and clergy members.
I actually have no idea what I meant when I said what I did. Honestly, I just thought it was a good come-back... LOL
In every church in the west now, there are services for converts. Even in my little tiny church we have a bible-study-type service that is aimed at converts and we diligently keep it running even though there is only an average of about 5 people that attend.
Here in Canada, one of the priests took initiative and started building a whole church just for converts because he saw how some of them can't seem to fit in.
What I'm saying is that our church is always open to anyone.
Again I apologize for my ignorant response.
Concerning the logo, you can have a competition where Copts all around the world who are good with graphics can make a logo and submit it and then you can choose the best one or have everyone vote on what they think is the best one.