I would agree it doesn't have much to do with the church as much as with society and culture. It simply doesn't make sense to get married if you are unable to support you and your spouse. If you are able to, [degree or no degree], then sure, get married.
That tends to be why most people wait to finish their degrees. Because while in school, you barely have time to work for pocket money, much less bills,etc.
There are people who have the love of their life and their degrees and still wait, so that they can pay off loans, save money for a house, etc. and there are also those who find the one they love and get married with one spouse studying and the other one working.
Basically, it depends on the individual couple's circumstances and what they believe is best, there is no "one size fits all" rule here.
I think this thread has deviated from the original question. To the original poster, I don't think it's too late for you if you're 30, especially in Egypt (things are different over there). I think my dad was around 30 when he got married, nothing wrong with that.
I think the question is not so much of age as much as it is readiness: are you financially ready, spiritually, psychologically, emotionally, do you have the right person, etc. Those differ for everyone.
[quote author=Father Peter link=topic=10366.msg127737#msg127737 date=1295633648] Coping with poverty is one thing, choosing to begin a family and married life in poverty is another.
Who is poor?? Shouldnt we thank God for all things?? Where then is the sermons on thanksgiving??? At what point is a person considered rich? When they win the lottery?
That's the point when someone should get married?
We are not talking about people with a lower paid job. We are talking about people who are poor. There are plenty of people with lower paid jobs who cope. But it is not wise to begin married life in poverty.
Can I have an example?
America is not the 3rd world. UK is not the 3rd world.
Frankly speaking, there are even people in the 3rd world who are married.
Marriage doesn't necessarily have to mean having kids straight away!! This is what Im getting at.. you can WAIT to have kids or plan to have kids when the time is right (i.e. after your studies.. when u get a good job).. but why live in passion for? ESPECIALLY if you have found someone coptic already??
[quote author=GODlovesme link=topic=10366.msg127747#msg127747 date=1295638962] [quote author=Zoxsasi link=topic=10366.msg127746#msg127746 date=1295638695] (i.e. after your studies.. when u get a good job)..
NOSHKOR ALLAH.
Or after an apprenticeship or starting your own business
If someone was unemployed I don't think they should get married. I mean if they had no job and could not find one.
If someone had a very low paying job so that they only had enough income to keep themselves in a small rented room and not even to eat very well then they should not get married.
A person should not wait until they were rich to get married. A person should not seek to be rich in any case. The Church should not be made up only of people who are Doctors. It needs people from all walks of life.
But if a person can barely support themelves then they are not placed in a position where it would seem that God wills them to marry immediately.
It has been entirely normal in Britain in the past for people to be engaged for a long time waiting for their circumstances to support married and family life. My paternal Grandfather married when he was 33. It is not always ideal, but it is the case that if our circumstances do not support a certain course of action then we should pray harder for wisdom and wait on God to change the circumstances. We should not force God's hand in any situation.
[quote author=Father Peter link=topic=10366.msg127770#msg127770 date=1295649147] An example?
If someone was unemployed I don't think they should get married. I mean if they had no job and could not find one.
If someone had a very low paying job so that they only had enough income to keep themselves in a small rented room and not even to eat very well then they should not get married.
A person should not wait until they were rich to get married. A person should not seek to be rich in any case. The Church should not be made up only of people who are Doctors. It needs people from all walks of life.
But if a person can barely support themelves then they are not placed in a position where it would seem that God wills them to marry immediately.
It has been entirely normal in Britain in the past for people to be engaged for a long time waiting for their circumstances to support married and family life. My paternal Grandfather married when he was 33. It is not always ideal, but it is the case that if our circumstances do not support a certain course of action then we should pray harder for wisdom and wait on God to change the circumstances. We should not force God's hand in any situation.
Father Peter
OK thanks for the answer.
How would you answer the same question on the condition that the couple decide NOT to have kids UNTIL things have been sorted out (financially for them).. i.e. until they get a good job to at least support themselves?? What about that??
Let me throw this into the works:
At University, NO STUDENT is ready for marriage, but 90% of them are having sexual intercourse on campus. They are either living with someone, or dating someone.
Why is it then, if someone Coptic decides to be virtuous and get married, they should suffer by waiting until they get a degree??? Surely marriage is a foreward step in holiness? Marriage does not mean you are going to have kids straight away either. You can plan on this.
But my entire argument all this time was: if the right person comes along at the wrong time, its BETTER to hold onto the person because a degree can be done ANYTIME. Travelling can be done ANYTIME.
But finding someone Coptic Orthodox is extremely hard in the Diaspora.
I REALLY loved your wisdom concerning marriage with members of other Orthodox Churches. However, maybe you are more diverse than most Coptic Christians, but this (for many reasons) is impractical. I hardly understand Arabic and Coptic, and you expect me to go and understand Armenian and Russian?? or Greek??? In a mass?
I've done that before... i went to a Russian Orthodox Church. I didnt get a word of what was being said. At least in the Coptic Church, I could have at least sung a few hymns in Coptic where I knew the meaning at least!.
Comments
That tends to be why most people wait to finish their degrees. Because while in school, you barely have time to work for pocket money, much less bills,etc.
There are people who have the love of their life and their degrees and still wait, so that they can pay off loans, save money for a house, etc. and there are also those who find the one they love and get married with one spouse studying and the other one working.
Basically, it depends on the individual couple's circumstances and what they believe is best, there is no "one size fits all" rule here.
I think this thread has deviated from the original question. To the original poster, I don't think it's too late for you if you're 30, especially in Egypt (things are different over there). I think my dad was around 30 when he got married, nothing wrong with that.
I think the question is not so much of age as much as it is readiness: are you financially ready, spiritually, psychologically, emotionally, do you have the right person, etc. Those differ for everyone.
Coping with poverty is one thing, choosing to begin a family and married life in poverty is another.
Who is poor?? Shouldnt we thank God for all things?? Where then is the sermons on thanksgiving???
At what point is a person considered rich? When they win the lottery?
That's the point when someone should get married? Can I have an example?
America is not the 3rd world.
UK is not the 3rd world.
Frankly speaking, there are even people in the 3rd world who are married.
Marriage doesn't necessarily have to mean having kids straight away!! This is what Im getting at.. you can WAIT to have kids or plan to have kids when the time is right (i.e. after your studies.. when u get a good job).. but why live in passion for? ESPECIALLY if you have found someone coptic already??
[quote author=Zoxsasi link=topic=10366.msg127746#msg127746 date=1295638695]
(i.e. after your studies.. when u get a good job)..
NOSHKOR ALLAH.
Or after an apprenticeship or starting your own business
If someone was unemployed I don't think they should get married. I mean if they had no job and could not find one.
If someone had a very low paying job so that they only had enough income to keep themselves in a small rented room and not even to eat very well then they should not get married.
A person should not wait until they were rich to get married. A person should not seek to be rich in any case. The Church should not be made up only of people who are Doctors. It needs people from all walks of life.
But if a person can barely support themelves then they are not placed in a position where it would seem that God wills them to marry immediately.
It has been entirely normal in Britain in the past for people to be engaged for a long time waiting for their circumstances to support married and family life. My paternal Grandfather married when he was 33. It is not always ideal, but it is the case that if our circumstances do not support a certain course of action then we should pray harder for wisdom and wait on God to change the circumstances. We should not force God's hand in any situation.
Father Peter
An example?
If someone was unemployed I don't think they should get married. I mean if they had no job and could not find one.
If someone had a very low paying job so that they only had enough income to keep themselves in a small rented room and not even to eat very well then they should not get married.
A person should not wait until they were rich to get married. A person should not seek to be rich in any case. The Church should not be made up only of people who are Doctors. It needs people from all walks of life.
But if a person can barely support themelves then they are not placed in a position where it would seem that God wills them to marry immediately.
It has been entirely normal in Britain in the past for people to be engaged for a long time waiting for their circumstances to support married and family life. My paternal Grandfather married when he was 33. It is not always ideal, but it is the case that if our circumstances do not support a certain course of action then we should pray harder for wisdom and wait on God to change the circumstances. We should not force God's hand in any situation.
Father Peter
OK thanks for the answer.
How would you answer the same question on the condition that the couple decide NOT to have kids UNTIL things have been sorted out (financially for them).. i.e. until they get a good job to at least support themselves?? What about that??
Let me throw this into the works:
At University, NO STUDENT is ready for marriage, but 90% of them are having sexual intercourse on campus. They are either living with someone, or dating someone.
Why is it then, if someone Coptic decides to be virtuous and get married, they should suffer by waiting until they get a degree??? Surely marriage is a foreward step in holiness? Marriage does not mean you are going to have kids straight away either. You can plan on this.
But my entire argument all this time was: if the right person comes along at the wrong time, its BETTER to hold onto the person because a degree can be done ANYTIME. Travelling can be done ANYTIME.
But finding someone Coptic Orthodox is extremely hard in the Diaspora.
I REALLY loved your wisdom concerning marriage with members of other Orthodox Churches. However, maybe you are more diverse than most Coptic Christians, but this (for many reasons) is impractical. I hardly understand Arabic and Coptic, and you expect me to go and understand Armenian and Russian?? or Greek??? In a mass?
I've done that before... i went to a Russian Orthodox Church. I didnt get a word of what was being said. At least in the Coptic Church, I could have at least sung a few hymns in Coptic where I knew the meaning at least!.
Father Peter