Just something I'd like to point out...anyone read the story of St. Sylvanus? Beautiful story that I think is very relevant to what we have been discussing here:
i agree with a lot of what is being said here.....
i see it also and hear of it also in our orthodox church... It is on the radio, it is playing all the time in the ears... Is it bringing us closer to God and Christ? wow, i think it is.
HOWEVER! We all know that our church is so rich and so precious in its ways, traditions, (i am speaking here with NO knowledge, i am just a novice in our church history and traditions) hymnology (wow so beautiful) and everything else that is swimming within the ocean of our Church. I see Tezbeha packed at retreats, i hear little kids wailing in coptic. I do believe it is still there and will probably grow stronger since we will grow a yearning for it since another medium has been introduced...
That album, into my heart, loooonnnnnggg time ago... I remember it with pianos and other instruments... But it was/is all over the church and considered so dear to so many i know.
I didnt think of it when i recorded Hiten, almost 9 years ago, and some other coptic hyms... I was told by Sayedna to stop it, so i did, with agreement.
I was asked to do an interview, we had it within the church walls, and they wanted me to strum and sing.. OH NO... i couldnt do it... During retreats, more and more of them, their is a guitar and pop Christian songs are being sung. Some are for, some are against, some are neutral such as myself. However during liturgy (which i need to start going more regularly) and tezbeha and within the church walls, are you kidding? IT WILL NEVER PENETRATE the walls... it cannot.
I love you all, and i can hear and i also have some frustrations about this... However let me go find a verse.... A verse we sing each sunday , Psalm 150:4 .
And in so so so many of our psalms it demands from us praises...... I dont know what to say here, i just want NONE of our minds to be troubled about this... we need to look at the good and the bad, and we need to accept things.. I dont know, paul
and good thing i know my math so i can get this entry posted
[quote author=paulhannamusic link=topic=10538.msg146596#msg146596 date=1319570315] if i may join...
i agree with a lot of what is being said here.....
i see it also and hear of it also in our orthodox church... It is on the radio, it is playing all the time in the ears... Is it bringing us closer to God and Christ? wow, i think it is.
HOWEVER! We all know that our church is so rich and so precious in its ways, traditions, (i am speaking here with NO knowledge, i am just a novice in our church history and traditions) hymnology (wow so beautiful) and everything else that is swimming within the ocean of our Church. .................................
you are truly funny. and you found a verse to, Psalm 150:4....i am surprised.
is this "discussion" really starting again? in my opinion its a pretty worthless conversation... its a fight and no1 is gnna win... just dont waste ur time with this and go and do some service or something!
I'm sorry to ressurect an older topic, but I'd like to do something proactive about this problem instead of just discussing it on a message board.
First of all, let me say that I'm happy to see that most of the posters here share my concerns about this topic and recognize why this is wrong and dangerous. I am working on composing a report on these activities as well as a theological refutation of the heresies which inform it and sending it to our bishops. I don't want the youth who will become the next generation of priests to grow up thinking this is an acceptable part of Orthodox practice. Maybe those of us who are concerned about this should form some kind of fellowship or at least start a petition to send to our bishops. What do you think?
I'm sorry to ressurect an older topic, but I'd like to do something proactive about this problem instead of just discussing it on a message board.
First of all, let me say that I'm happy to see that most of the posters here share my concerns about this topic and recognize why this is wrong and dangerous. I am working on composing a report on these activities as well as a theological refutation of the heresies which inform it and sending it to our bishops. I don't want the youth who will become the next generation of priests to grow up thinking this is an acceptable part of Orthodox practice. Maybe those of us who are concerned about this should form some kind of fellowship or at least start a petition to send to our bishops. What do you think?
Pray For My Weakness,
AN Yes! When you finish your composition, could you please post it here?
Also, are you the same AntoniousNikolas who used to post on OC.net?
I'm sorry to ressurect an older topic, but I'd like to do something proactive about this problem instead of just discussing it on a message board.
First of all, let me say that I'm happy to see that most of the posters here share my concerns about this topic and recognize why this is wrong and dangerous. I am working on composing a report on these activities as well as a theological refutation of the heresies which inform it and sending it to our bishops. I don't want the youth who will become the next generation of priests to grow up thinking this is an acceptable part of Orthodox practice. Maybe those of us who are concerned about this should form some kind of fellowship or at least start a petition to send to our bishops. What do you think?
A scholarly and unbiased analysis of the situation is sorely needed. However strongly you may feel about this topic, I encourage you to keep it neutral in tone - if the facts point to a certain conclusion that will be self-evident to any reader. A report full of polemics will instantly turn many people off your cause.
And yes... please post it up here.
Scholarly and unbiased is exactly what I would be going for. The facts in this matter speak for themselves. A polemical or vitriolic approach would be counter-productive. These are my brother servants I'm talking about who in their zeal for Our Lord and for the youth, and perhaps because they are not as grounded in Orthodox theology as they should be, have fallen into error. They have the best of intentions, just the wrong tactics because of an unfortunate tendency we sometimes have, coming from nations where to be Christian means to be Orthodox, to think that the same is true in the West and that anything with the label "Christian" on it must be good for our consumption. To correct them gently and in love is my intention, for the sake of our youth. Now if we we're talking about pseudo-Christians deliberately leading Orthodox out of the true Faith as here: http://www.thenational.ae/news/world/africa/evangelicals-woo-egyptian-copts that would be different. Some have suggested that such servants engaged in these tactics act in accord with the wolves of this world such as those "targeting" Copts and other Orthodox, but I hope and pray this is not the case.
If you would like, it may be helpful if you may quote him in your report :)
Thank you, brother! I will certainly use this. I love our Pope, I miss him, and I can't think of a better witness for Christ or Orthodoxy to "have my back" on this or any issue. May he intercede for the purity of our Faith and for our efforts at the Throne of God. :)
[quote author=mikeforjesus link=topic=10538.msg160430#msg160430 date=1349956019] Jesus hates me this I know for the Coptics tell me so Yes Jesus loves to kill me Yes Jesus loves to kill me
It is because Our Lord Jesus loves you...and because we His unworthy children the "Coptics" love Him and follow His example in loving you...that we insist upon the Faith He established, delivered once and forever for all the saints. All that is being "killed" here is that which kills the soul.
[quote author=mikeforjesus link=topic=10538.msg160441#msg160441 date=1350022474] Hopefully you will continue following that example and not make excuses and lies Are you Orthodox or not? Curious.
Yes! When you finish your composition, could you please post it here?
Also, are you the same AntoniousNikolas who used to post on OC.net?
Thanks.
Yes on both counts. :)
Severian, if I produce a booklet on this for servants prep classes, etc., would you be interested in contributing? I would be honored to. Though, I am afraid I might get too zealous and I might end up making them less receptive of the truth. I will help out as much as I can, though I recommend contacting Fr. Peter on OC.net if you able to (he no longer posts here). He would know what to do.
[quote author=Severian link=topic=10538.msg160450#msg160450 date=1350131600] [quote author=mikeforjesus link=topic=10538.msg160441#msg160441 date=1350022474] Hopefully you will continue following that example and not make excuses and lies Are you Orthodox or not? Curious.
Yes I am. But I have one teacher who alone commands all the attention which is the LORD.
"But you have his annointing which teaches you all things and have no need that anyone teaches you and that same annointing teaches you and does not lie" "All shall know Me from the Least to the Greatest of them" "He who is spiritual judges all things and is rightly judged by noone" "We were born not of men's will but of God" "Think not to yourselves we are abraham's children and therefore we can not be judged.." Though I can not deny that baptism was necessary in the beginning of the church and perhaps now also It is ultimately left to us whether we seek to do God's will or our own by doing all that the LORD Commands: Loving God with all our being and our neighbor as ourselves. "He who seeks to do God's will will know whether I speak on my own authority.."
I do not have the time to defend myself against you just as you do not have the time to defend yourself against all heretics
"I will pour out my Spirit on all flesh"
it is not you who chooses whom God will give birth to in the spirit.
The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it but do not know where it comes from so is it to everyone who is born of the spirit
The same LORD over all is rich to all who call upon Him
I guess I am not a traditional orthodox but I believe I am following the law which was written in our hearts in the new covenant
The issue is people are making up the sounds are offensive but they just want an excuse to kick people out of the church. Many songs written by protestants are not heretic.
Amazing Grace - Good Shout to the LORD - Good Father God - Good Thy Word - Good Who will bear my light to them? Good Crucified Layed behind a Stone - Good If your tired and weary - Good Via Dolorosa - Good Hillsong - Mighty to Save - Good Hillsong United On that Day when I see - Good Casting crowns - Good etc
I say unto you if these would keep silent immediately the stones will cry out
Out of the mouth of babes you have perfected praise
The LORD will hopefully seek these righteous sons who do not care for the well being of their little siblings My God seek your souls with tears
Unto me it is written Let noone despise your youth but be an example to the believers in faith in purity in love etc
^It defies the teachings of the Church to use songs written by heretics and schismatics. Do you think St. Athanasius would have approved using hymns written by Arius (even if they did not contain questionable content)?
Unless the LORD builds the house they labor in vain who build it.
The Stone which the builders rejected has become the chief cornerstone. This was the LORD's doing and it is marvelous in our eyes
"If it is possible as much as depends with you live in peace with all men"
If the song contains no error why would you not sing it? Is it because you judge them? Judge nothing before the time. When the LORD comes He will reveal the counsels of all men
"We forbade him because he does not follow after us.." "then Jesus said do not forbid him"
I have become all things to all men. To those under the law I was as those under the law. To those without law I became without law yet not under law towards Christ
Obey custom to whom custom is due
He who receives one little child like this receives Me
Beloved test the spirits whether they are of God. Every spirit which does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God No one can say Jesus is LORD except by the Holy Spirit. Not that I know they have the fullness of the faith. They still need to walk in the Spirit not just believe The grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men That was the light that gives light to all men
Do you leave Christ wherever you go as Pope Shenouda says to do. The spiritual man wherever he goes he is a blessing.
As Joseph was a blessing to Egypt. Do you leave Christ wherever you go? Did Joseph tell Pharoah he must be circumcised? Or did He show Him the image of God who is accessible to all?
How beautiful are the feet of him who brings glad tidings of great joy Isaiah
Does God need you to fight for the faith for Him? When the church was to be planted in the world it was planted by mighty signs and wonders
The pharisees tried to tell the people he was a deceiver and takes them away from the worship of God but Jesus said to them "Whoever wills to do His Will will know whether I speak on My Own authority" "Whoever has heard and learned from the Father comes to Me"
Maybe you would like to tell me about a dream you saw where some protestant was burning in hell? Wait you can't show me that dream. I must believe you!
It is an unfortunate truth that the Protestant faith is claimed by many not to be Christian. Whether that be true or not, it is very difficult to say. Indeed, all the evidence point towards such an unfortunate truth. Whether you believe the faith in itself is OK or not, doesn't change the fact that you cannot encourage someone to become Protestant. Yanni, I for example would suggest to a greek person to go to a greek orthodox church. I have no problem with doing so, given that I know their faith is sounds just like ours. But the protestant faith, this, I wouldn't be able to encourage someone to go there, not because they are bad people, definitely not, but for the sake of that one person I want him to go to a sounds faith, one that definitely leads to heaven. The protestant faith, unfortunately, we cannot claim that it definitely leads to heaven.
Given that stance, if I listen to Protestant music, being that the lyrics are fine or not, are you not somewhat encouraging the protestant faith? Say you listen that music, a friend of yours at school, at work, sees you listening, and he knows you are a good christian person, does he not subconsciously accepts protestianism as a good faith? Worst even, If you believe the protestant faith may possibly not lead to heaven, wouldnt you want your protestant brother to know so? but by listen to their music, you are encouraging their service and encouraging their faith.
I am not sure if you follow the point, but I hope I made somewhat some sense.
But whoever has learned and heard from the Father comes to Jesus
But those who have faith they are free indeed
St Paul talks about eating food made blessed by an idol
Whatever a man does outside of faith is a sin
there is a possibility instead of following what God says we invent our own rules and traditions so that we can neglect God's. "Tithe mint.. neglecting justice mercy and faith"
If you were blind you would have no sin
Whatever was written in the Scriptures were written for our own learning but unstable men (perhaps me) can twist to their own destruction but also it is you when you invent rules. Like christians must fast all the church fasts to go to heaven. Christians must not have too much fun or think about innocent worldly things of having any use (But this is why the LORD made the parable of the talents. So we can entertain strangers and bring increase to the kingdom)
They should all impose self inflicted poverty . Is that what God says you are to judge for yourself St Paul talks about it
20 Therefore,[e] if you died with Christ from the basic principles of the world, why, as though living in the world, do you subject yourselves to regulations— 21 “Do not touch, do not taste, do not handle,” 22 which all concern things which perish with the using—according to the commandments and doctrines of men? 23 These things indeed have an appearance of wisdom in self-imposed religion, false humility, and neglect of the body, but are of no value against the indulgence of the flesh.
Solomon says there is a just man who perishes in his righteousness then he says "Do not be overly righteous lest you destroy yourself"
For it was written no thing can seperate us from God's love in Christ Jesus
Not from our love to Christ Jesus
The sabbath was indeed made for man and not man for the sabbath. He can obtain its blessings but it was made to give him rest not God for God rested on that day
By all means follow your traditions because God will work to destroy it it is not my business to and Elijah is coming soon enough
But if I feel you are lacking in love to me I will rebuke you if it is harming me
Unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and the pharisees you can not enter the kingdom.
But if you are blind and incapable of seeing the truth of what you must do to enter the kingdom God will forgive you. Only when it is clear that the problem is your heart and not your rational decision making then God will judge
Why were the pharisees condemned? Because they rejected John after seeing all his signs and the sinners coming to him
Mike, I unfortunately have lots of trouble understanding what you are saying in your posts.. Please forgive me.. [quote author=mikeforjesus link=topic=10538.msg160461#msg160461 date=1350138017] If you were blind you would have no sin
Unfortunately, I do not think that is true. There are many blind people in the world, and they all have sin. No one is without sin.
[quote author=mikeforjesus link=topic=10538.msg160461#msg160461 date=1350138017] For it was written no thing can seperate us from God's love in Christ Jesus
In the book of James you will read that temptation leads to sin and sin brings forth death. Sin seperates you from God. We must beware of our actions and our influences on others that we lead them not into sin or seperated from God as Christ says in Matthew 18.
[quote author=mikeforjesus link=topic=10538.msg160461#msg160461 date=1350138017] But if I feel you are lacking in love to me I will rebuke you if it is harming me
Why? We are all called to love one another. Why feel a lack of love? I have not seen anyone lack love to you in this thread. May the Lord have mercy on us all indeed.
[quote author=mikeforjesus link=topic=10538.msg160461#msg160461 date=1350138017] Unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and the pharisees you can not enter the kingdom.
Righteousness is not a measure to be evaluated by men or compared. The scribes were unrighteous only because they believed they were righteous. Any man who feels righteous unfortunately finds himself becoming like the scribes and pharisees.
I feel like it strayed from the topic though, am i wrong? Is there a relation I do not see?
if you have trouble understanding what I am saying how can you be a servant of God and think you have all the answers
I am not responsible for your sins friend you are responsible for your own. You failed to understand that no angel no demon no things present is able to seperate us from the love of God through Christ Jesus
Do you think I can make a brother lost to be eternally seperated from Christ What a God you claim to follow and love You are following the hireling and not the shepherd who sees the wolf coming and leaves him to tear apart the sheep
Where are your works that prove you are disciples of the Master? if you deny all worldly things and refuse to work with others with a peacable relation how can you do anything good? please search the bible and see if any of the righteous were of this nature
Jesus said I do not pray that you take them out of the world.
I appointed you that you should go and bear fruit
He told them to trade their talents (not hide it in the ground)
Behold He is coming as a thief
Behold I stand at the door and knock.
Out of the same mouth come blessing and cursing. With it we bless our God and we curse them who are made in the Simultude of God.
2 Timothy 2:24-26 New King James Version (NKJV) 24 And a servant of the Lord must not quarrel but be gentle to all, able to teach, patient, 25 in humility correcting those who are in opposition, if God perhaps will grant them repentance, so that they may know the truth, 26 and that they may come to their senses and escape the snare of the devil, having been taken captive by him to do his will
with your mindset you will take that as a rule and not from the spirit and guide of truth. You will do it with your external man but not with your inner man
Now that is being holier than thou unlike how you defined it
But the pharisee prayed thus... not as that tax collector over there who most assuredly will not be saved as he is outside orthodoxy
Do you read the bible? Do you have the Spirit which calls God Abba Father? do you draw near to God that He may draw near to you? So do you have a relationship with God as Moses and all the righteous did? Do you have a burning desire for others to be saved like St Paul says "I could wish that I myself was accursed of Christ for the sake of my country men"
They are blind because they hate the light I am talking about blindness through no fault of your own but because you have been not taught otherwise and are not compelled to see the truth by an understanding God but out of fear of a scary God you try to do what will please Him and what all men think you should do For men of all religions approve of your way of Fearing God for you all condemn each other So if God must accept only one type of people people are divided into groups into what seems the way to please the LORD But who has felt they have ever been able to please that LORD? And who has understood His teachings ?
Comments
http://books.google.com/books?id=FiUYAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA284&dq=st.+sylvanus+the+actor&hl=en&ei=85FHTf3xM4e-sQPwjanmAQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2&ved=0CDIQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=st. sylvanus the actor&f=false
i agree with a lot of what is being said here.....
i see it also and hear of it also in our orthodox church... It is on the radio, it is playing all the time in the ears... Is it bringing us closer to God and Christ? wow, i think it is.
HOWEVER! We all know that our church is so rich and so precious in its ways, traditions, (i am speaking here with NO knowledge, i am just a novice in our church history and traditions) hymnology (wow so beautiful) and everything else that is swimming within the ocean of our Church.
I see Tezbeha packed at retreats, i hear little kids wailing in coptic. I do believe it is still there and will probably grow stronger since we will grow a yearning for it since another medium has been introduced...
That album, into my heart, loooonnnnnggg time ago... I remember it with pianos and other instruments... But it was/is all over the church and considered so dear to so many i know.
I didnt think of it when i recorded Hiten, almost 9 years ago, and some other coptic hyms... I was told by Sayedna to stop it, so i did, with agreement.
I was asked to do an interview, we had it within the church walls, and they wanted me to strum and sing.. OH NO... i couldnt do it... During retreats, more and more of them, their is a guitar and pop Christian songs are being sung. Some are for, some are against, some are neutral such as myself. However during liturgy (which i need to start going more regularly) and tezbeha and within the church walls, are you kidding? IT WILL NEVER PENETRATE the walls... it cannot.
I love you all, and i can hear and i also have some frustrations about this... However let me go find a verse.... A verse we sing each sunday , Psalm 150:4 .
And in so so so many of our psalms it demands from us praises...... I dont know what to say here, i just want NONE of our minds to be troubled about this... we need to look at the good and the bad, and we need to accept things..
I dont know,
paul
and good thing i know my math so i can get this entry posted
if i may join...
i agree with a lot of what is being said here.....
i see it also and hear of it also in our orthodox church... It is on the radio, it is playing all the time in the ears... Is it bringing us closer to God and Christ? wow, i think it is.
HOWEVER! We all know that our church is so rich and so precious in its ways, traditions, (i am speaking here with NO knowledge, i am just a novice in our church history and traditions) hymnology (wow so beautiful) and everything else that is swimming within the ocean of our Church. .................................
you are truly funny. and you found a verse to, Psalm 150:4....i am surprised.
I'm sorry to ressurect an older topic, but I'd like to do something proactive about this problem instead of just discussing it on a message board.
First of all, let me say that I'm happy to see that most of the posters here share my concerns about this topic and recognize why this is wrong and dangerous. I am working on composing a report on these activities as well as a theological refutation of the heresies which inform it and sending it to our bishops. I don't want the youth who will become the next generation of priests to grow up thinking this is an acceptable part of Orthodox practice. Maybe those of us who are concerned about this should form some kind of fellowship or at least start a petition to send to our bishops. What do you think?
Pray For My Weakness,
AN
Hello Everyone,
I'm sorry to ressurect an older topic, but I'd like to do something proactive about this problem instead of just discussing it on a message board.
First of all, let me say that I'm happy to see that most of the posters here share my concerns about this topic and recognize why this is wrong and dangerous. I am working on composing a report on these activities as well as a theological refutation of the heresies which inform it and sending it to our bishops. I don't want the youth who will become the next generation of priests to grow up thinking this is an acceptable part of Orthodox practice. Maybe those of us who are concerned about this should form some kind of fellowship or at least start a petition to send to our bishops. What do you think?
Pray For My Weakness,
AN
Yes! When you finish your composition, could you please post it here?
Also, are you the same AntoniousNikolas who used to post on OC.net?
Thanks.
Hello Everyone,
I'm sorry to ressurect an older topic, but I'd like to do something proactive about this problem instead of just discussing it on a message board.
First of all, let me say that I'm happy to see that most of the posters here share my concerns about this topic and recognize why this is wrong and dangerous. I am working on composing a report on these activities as well as a theological refutation of the heresies which inform it and sending it to our bishops. I don't want the youth who will become the next generation of priests to grow up thinking this is an acceptable part of Orthodox practice. Maybe those of us who are concerned about this should form some kind of fellowship or at least start a petition to send to our bishops. What do you think?
Pray For My Weakness,
AN
"Orthodoxy is Orthodoxy" - Our dear H.H. Pope Shenouda III
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vpA3T2xFabw&list=UUlF1D0Cx0CpqGaZejBTSs5A&index=6&feature=plcp
He has your back :)
If you would like, it may be helpful if you may quote him in your report :)
Yes Jesus loves to kill me
Yes Jesus loves to kill me
Yes! When you finish your composition, could you please post it here?
Also, are you the same AntoniousNikolas who used to post on OC.net?
Thanks.
Yes on both counts. :)
Severian, if I produce a booklet on this for servants prep classes, etc., would you be interested in contributing?
[quote author=qawe link=topic=10538.msg160427#msg160427 date=1349934814]
A scholarly and unbiased analysis of the situation is sorely needed.
However strongly you may feel about this topic, I encourage you to keep it neutral in tone - if the facts point to a certain conclusion that will be self-evident to any reader.
A report full of polemics will instantly turn many people off your cause.
And yes... please post it up here.
Scholarly and unbiased is exactly what I would be going for. The facts in this matter speak for themselves. A polemical or vitriolic approach would be counter-productive. These are my brother servants I'm talking about who in their zeal for Our Lord and for the youth, and perhaps because they are not as grounded in Orthodox theology as they should be, have fallen into error. They have the best of intentions, just the wrong tactics because of an unfortunate tendency we sometimes have, coming from nations where to be Christian means to be Orthodox, to think that the same is true in the West and that anything with the label "Christian" on it must be good for our consumption. To correct them gently and in love is my intention, for the sake of our youth. Now if we we're talking about pseudo-Christians deliberately leading Orthodox out of the true Faith as here: http://www.thenational.ae/news/world/africa/evangelicals-woo-egyptian-copts that would be different. Some have suggested that such servants engaged in these tactics act in accord with the wolves of this world such as those "targeting" Copts and other Orthodox, but I hope and pray this is not the case.
[quote author=+iloveJesus link=topic=10538.msg160429#msg160429 date=1349954847]
"Orthodoxy is Orthodoxy" - Our dear H.H. Pope Shenouda III
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vpA3T2xFabw&list=UUlF1D0Cx0CpqGaZejBTSs5A&index=6&feature=plcp
He has your back :)
If you would like, it may be helpful if you may quote him in your report :)
Thank you, brother! I will certainly use this. I love our Pope, I miss him, and I can't think of a better witness for Christ or Orthodoxy to "have my back" on this or any issue. May he intercede for the purity of our Faith and for our efforts at the Throne of God. :)
[quote author=mikeforjesus link=topic=10538.msg160430#msg160430 date=1349956019]
Jesus hates me this I know for the Coptics tell me so
Yes Jesus loves to kill me
Yes Jesus loves to kill me
It is because Our Lord Jesus loves you...and because we His unworthy children the "Coptics" love Him and follow His example in loving you...that we insist upon the Faith He established, delivered once and forever for all the saints. All that is being "killed" here is that which kills the soul.
Hopefully you will continue following that example and not make excuses and lies
Are you Orthodox or not? Curious.
[quote author=Severian link=topic=10538.msg160424#msg160424 date=1349925110]
Yes! When you finish your composition, could you please post it here?
Also, are you the same AntoniousNikolas who used to post on OC.net?
Thanks.
Yes on both counts. :)
Severian, if I produce a booklet on this for servants prep classes, etc., would you be interested in contributing?
I would be honored to. Though, I am afraid I might get too zealous and I might end up making them less receptive of the truth. I will help out as much as I can, though I recommend contacting Fr. Peter on OC.net if you able to (he no longer posts here). He would know what to do.
[quote author=mikeforjesus link=topic=10538.msg160441#msg160441 date=1350022474]
Hopefully you will continue following that example and not make excuses and lies
Are you Orthodox or not? Curious.
Yes I am. But I have one teacher who alone commands all the attention which is the LORD.
"But you have his annointing which teaches you all things and have no need that anyone teaches you and that same annointing teaches you and does not lie"
"All shall know Me from the Least to the Greatest of them"
"He who is spiritual judges all things and is rightly judged by noone"
"We were born not of men's will but of God"
"Think not to yourselves we are abraham's children and therefore we can not be judged.."
Though I can not deny that baptism was necessary in the beginning of the church and perhaps now also
It is ultimately left to us whether we seek to do God's will or our own by doing all that the LORD Commands:
Loving God with all our being and our neighbor as ourselves.
"He who seeks to do God's will will know whether I speak on my own authority.."
I do not have the time to defend myself against you just as you do not have the time to defend yourself against all heretics
"I will pour out my Spirit on all flesh"
it is not you who chooses whom God will give birth to in the spirit.
The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it but do not know where it comes from so is it to everyone who is born of the spirit
The same LORD over all is rich to all who call upon Him
I guess I am not a traditional orthodox but I believe I am following the law which was written in our hearts in the new covenant
Amazing Grace - Good
Shout to the LORD - Good
Father God - Good
Thy Word - Good
Who will bear my light to them? Good
Crucified Layed behind a Stone - Good
If your tired and weary - Good
Via Dolorosa - Good
Hillsong - Mighty to Save - Good
Hillsong United On that Day when I see - Good
Casting crowns - Good
etc
I say unto you if these would keep silent immediately the stones will cry out
Out of the mouth of babes you have perfected praise
The LORD will hopefully seek these righteous sons who do not care for the well being of their little siblings
My God seek your souls with tears
Unto me it is written
Let noone despise your youth but be an example to the believers in faith in purity in love etc
Unless the LORD builds the house they labor in vain who build it.
The Stone which the builders rejected has become the chief cornerstone. This was the LORD's doing and it is marvelous in our eyes
"If it is possible as much as depends with you live in peace with all men"
If the song contains no error why would you not sing it? Is it because you judge them?
Judge nothing before the time. When the LORD comes He will reveal the counsels of all men
"We forbade him because he does not follow after us.." "then Jesus said do not forbid him"
I have become all things to all men. To those under the law I was as those under the law. To those without law I became without law yet not under law towards Christ
Obey custom to whom custom is due
He who receives one little child like this receives Me
Beloved test the spirits whether they are of God.
Every spirit which does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God
No one can say Jesus is LORD except by the Holy Spirit.
Not that I know they have the fullness of the faith. They still need to walk in the Spirit not just believe
The grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men
That was the light that gives light to all men
Because Arius was a rebel and a liar.
He was a willful sinner
"They talk of the glory of your kingdom"
Do you leave Christ wherever you go as Pope Shenouda says to do. The spiritual man wherever he goes he is a blessing.
As Joseph was a blessing to Egypt. Do you leave Christ wherever you go?
Did Joseph tell Pharoah he must be circumcised? Or did He show Him the image of God who is accessible to all?
How beautiful are the feet of him who brings glad tidings of great joy
Isaiah
When the church was to be planted in the world it was planted by mighty signs and wonders
The pharisees tried to tell the people he was a deceiver and takes them away from the worship of God
but Jesus said to them
"Whoever wills to do His Will will know whether I speak on My Own authority"
"Whoever has heard and learned from the Father comes to Me"
Maybe you would like to tell me about a dream you saw where some protestant was burning in hell?
Wait you can't show me that dream. I must believe you!
Given that stance, if I listen to Protestant music, being that the lyrics are fine or not, are you not somewhat encouraging the protestant faith? Say you listen that music, a friend of yours at school, at work, sees you listening, and he knows you are a good christian person, does he not subconsciously accepts protestianism as a good faith? Worst even, If you believe the protestant faith may possibly not lead to heaven, wouldnt you want your protestant brother to know so? but by listen to their music, you are encouraging their service and encouraging their faith.
I am not sure if you follow the point, but I hope I made somewhat some sense.
Whatever a man does outside of faith is a sin
But whoever has learned and heard from the Father comes to Jesus
But those who have faith they are free indeed
St Paul talks about eating food made blessed by an idol
Whatever a man does outside of faith is a sin
there is a possibility instead of following what God says we invent our own rules and traditions so that we can neglect God's. "Tithe mint.. neglecting justice mercy and faith"
If you were blind you would have no sin
Whatever was written in the Scriptures were written for our own learning but unstable men (perhaps me) can twist to their own destruction but also it is you when you invent rules. Like christians must fast all the church fasts to go to heaven. Christians must not have too much fun or think about innocent worldly things of having any use (But this is why the LORD made the parable of the talents. So we can entertain strangers and bring increase to the kingdom)
They should all impose self inflicted poverty . Is that what God says you are to judge for yourself
St Paul talks about it
20 Therefore,[e] if you died with Christ from the basic principles of the world, why, as though living in the world, do you subject yourselves to regulations— 21 “Do not touch, do not taste, do not handle,” 22 which all concern things which perish with the using—according to the commandments and doctrines of men? 23 These things indeed have an appearance of wisdom in self-imposed religion, false humility, and neglect of the body, but are of no value against the indulgence of the flesh.
Solomon says there is a just man who perishes in his righteousness then he says "Do not be overly righteous lest you destroy yourself"
For it was written no thing can seperate us from God's love in Christ Jesus
Not from our love to Christ Jesus
The sabbath was indeed made for man and not man for the sabbath. He can obtain its blessings but it was made to give him rest not God for God rested on that day
By all means follow your traditions because God will work to destroy it it is not my business to and Elijah is coming soon enough
But if I feel you are lacking in love to me I will rebuke you if it is harming me
Unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and the pharisees you can not enter the kingdom.
But if you are blind and incapable of seeing the truth of what you must do to enter the kingdom God will forgive you. Only when it is clear that the problem is your heart and not your rational decision making then God will judge
Why were the pharisees condemned? Because they rejected John after seeing all his signs and the sinners coming to him
It was called a willfull sin not blind rejection
Mike, I unfortunately have lots of trouble understanding what you are saying in your posts.. Please forgive me..
[quote author=mikeforjesus link=topic=10538.msg160461#msg160461 date=1350138017]
If you were blind you would have no sin
Unfortunately, I do not think that is true. There are many blind people in the world, and they all have sin. No one is without sin.
[quote author=mikeforjesus link=topic=10538.msg160461#msg160461 date=1350138017]
For it was written no thing can seperate us from God's love in Christ Jesus
In the book of James you will read that temptation leads to sin and sin brings forth death. Sin seperates you from God. We must beware of our actions and our influences on others that we lead them not into sin or seperated from God as Christ says in Matthew 18.
[quote author=mikeforjesus link=topic=10538.msg160461#msg160461 date=1350138017]
But if I feel you are lacking in love to me I will rebuke you if it is harming me
Why? We are all called to love one another. Why feel a lack of love? I have not seen anyone lack love to you in this thread. May the Lord have mercy on us all indeed.
[quote author=mikeforjesus link=topic=10538.msg160461#msg160461 date=1350138017]
Unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and the pharisees you can not enter the kingdom.
Righteousness is not a measure to be evaluated by men or compared. The scribes were unrighteous only because they believed they were righteous. Any man who feels righteous unfortunately finds himself becoming like the scribes and pharisees.
I feel like it strayed from the topic though, am i wrong? Is there a relation I do not see?
Please pray for me.
I am not responsible for your sins friend you are responsible for your own.
You failed to understand that no angel no demon no things present is able to seperate us from the love of God through Christ Jesus
Do you think I can make a brother lost to be eternally seperated from Christ
What a God you claim to follow and love
You are following the hireling and not the shepherd who sees the wolf coming and leaves him to tear apart the sheep
Where are your works that prove you are disciples of the Master?
if you deny all worldly things and refuse to work with others with a peacable relation how can you do anything good?
please search the bible and see if any of the righteous were of this nature
Jesus said I do not pray that you take them out of the world.
I appointed you that you should go and bear fruit
He told them to trade their talents (not hide it in the ground)
Behold He is coming as a thief
Behold I stand at the door and knock.
Out of the same mouth come blessing and cursing. With it we bless our God and we curse them who are made in the Simultude of God.
New King James Version (NKJV)
24 And a servant of the Lord must not quarrel but be gentle to all, able to teach, patient, 25 in humility correcting those who are in opposition, if God perhaps will grant them repentance, so that they may know the truth, 26 and that they may come to their senses and escape the snare of the devil, having been taken captive by him to do his will
with your mindset you will take that as a rule and not from the spirit and guide of truth. You will do it with your external man but not with your inner man
Now that is being holier than thou unlike how you defined it
But the pharisee prayed thus... not as that tax collector over there who most assuredly will not be saved as he is outside orthodoxy
Do you read the bible? Do you have the Spirit which calls God Abba Father? do you draw near to God that He may draw near to you? So do you have a relationship with God as Moses and all the righteous did?
Do you have a burning desire for others to be saved like St Paul says "I could wish that I myself was accursed of Christ for the sake of my country men"
For men of all religions approve of your way of Fearing God for you all condemn each other
So if God must accept only one type of people people are divided into groups into what seems the way to please the LORD
But who has felt they have ever been able to please that LORD?
And who has understood His teachings ?
May the Lord have mercy.