Other types of Orthodox Christians.

ServentofGod

What are the other types of Orthodox Christians and which ones are we in communion with? Why is there not communion among all types of Orthodox Christians (is it because of differences between us? Is it possible for two different types of orthodox Christians to get married (if the churches are not in communion with each other)?

epchois_nai_nan

I think we can get married to all Eastern and Oriental Orthodox Churches, even those we're not in Communion with. Not sure about that though, someone will correct me if I'm wrong.

We're in Communion with all Oriental Orthodox Churches, listed here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oriental_Orthodoxy#Oriental_Orthodox_Communion

We are not inCommunion with the Eastern Orthodox Church, members listed here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Orthodox_Church#Eastern_Orthodox_churches_in_communion

The only reason we're not in Communion with the Eastern Orthodox is politics. I think most people agree on that now, even the respective patriarchs of all the Churches involved. They're working very hard to satisfy all the people within the Churches who are opposed to union.

God willing, in our life time there will be one Orthodox Church.

aiernovi

Actually, the official position of the Church is that you can only marry a member of the Oriental Orthodox Church. All the sacraments are reserved only for members of the Church and this includes marriage. I have heard of some Eastern/Oriental couples but the Eastern Orthodox partner usually was anointed with the myron and became a member of the Oriental Orthodox church before the marriage.

anba bola

Pastoral Agreement between the Coptic Orthodox and Greek Orthodox Patriarchates of Alexandria

Since the Holy Synods of both the Coptic Orthodox Church and the Greek Orthodox Patriarchate of Alexandria and all Africa have already accepted the outcome of the official dialogue on Christology between the Orthodox Church and the Oriental Orthodox Churches, including the two official agreements: the first on Christology signed in June 1989 in Egypt and the second also on Christology and on the lifting of anathemas and restoration of full communion signed in Geneva 1990, in which it is stated that "In the light of our agreed statement on Christology..., we have now clearly understood that both families have always loyally maintained the same authentic Orthodox Christological faith, and the unbroken continuity of Apostolic tradition". It was agreed to have mutual recognition of the sacrament of Baptism, based on what St Paul wrote, "One Lord, one faith, one baptism" (Eph 4:5)

But since up until now we are waiting for the responses of the Holy Synods of some other churches in both families, the restoration of full communion is not yet reached between the two sides of the bi-lateral dialogue. And due to the pastoral consequences and implications caued by mixed Christian marriages between the members of the two Patriarchates of Alexandria, having the majority of their people living in the same countries. Those marriages being difficult to perform in both Churches at the same time or in concelebration. The result is that mant sensitivities are created between the two families of the partners of such marriage. Those sensitivities which can extend even after the marriage and may affect the relation between the two communities of churches.

For those mentioned reasons, the Holy Synods of both Patriarchates have agreed to accept the sacrament of marriage which is conducted in either Church with the condition that it is conducted for two partners not belonging to the same Patriarchate of the other Church from their origin. Both the Bride and the Groom should carry a valid certificate from his/her own Patriarchate that he/she has a permit of marriage and indicating the details of his/her marriage status up to date.

Each of the two Patriarchates shall also accept to perform all of its other sacraments to that new family of Mixed Christian Marriage.

It is agreed that the Patriarchate which shall perform the marriage shall be responsible for any marriage problems that may happen concerning this certain marriage, taking into consideration the unified marriage laws signed by the heads of Churches in Egypt in the year 1999.

Each Patriarchate shall preserve its right not to give its sacraments to any persons whom she does not find fulfilling its canons according to the Apostolic Tradition.

In other words a Coptic person can marry a Greek Orthodox person in the Greek Orthodox Patriarchate of Alexandria with the marriage being accepted by both churches, and the baptism of the other is already accepted by both Churches.

PopeKyrillos

In my opinion, I think the separation today (regardless of what happened in the past) is due to one thing; the monks of Mount Athos of the Greek Orthodox Church- who cannot bear to look at us. This also applies to some other Greek monks outside the monastery. The monks have gained a ridiculous level of power in the Eastern Orthodox Church, to the extent that the Patriarchs cannot contradict any verdict made by them. If we are able to gain their favor, I guarantee that the EO and OO churches will be one again.

The two churches were already able to reach to a common declaration, but when the Ecumenical Patriarch sent the decree to the monks, they didn't allow the messenger to enter the monastery. However, as you can see from Russian Orthodox Patriarch Kiril's visit to Alexandria, there is clear admiration for the Coptic Church of Alexandria from their side, and they would never mind being one with us.

I would like to know about this whole marriage thing though. That would be very interesting. I kind of doubt this though- I think its either we partake in all of each other's sacraments or none. Meaning, if I cant receive communion in their church, I cannot engage in their sacrament of matrimony or any other sacrament.

PK

aiernovi

Good catch Anba Bola! I completely forgot about this agreement. But this is only true for Copts in Egypt marrying members of the Greek Orthodox Church in Egypt. It does not extend to the lands of immigration.

anba bola

You're certainly right aiernovi (Now you made the catch :)). But its at least a start. Hopefully in the near future there will be full union between both sides.

peterfarrington

This agreement shows that the Church does not consider there to be any theological or spiritual impediment to marriage between EO and OO, and that the issue is a matter of good order.

Father Peter

[Deleted User]

The user and all related content has been deleted.

peterfarrington

It is not really possible to marry outside of Orthodoxy since the sacrament of marriage can only be contracted with an Orthodox Christian.

Father Peter

Khas.

[quote author=anba bola link=topic=10613.msg129360#msg129360 date=1296618584]

Pastoral Agreement between the Coptic Orthodox and Greek Orthodox Patriarchates of Alexandria

Since the Holy Synods of both the Coptic Orthodox Church and the Greek Orthodox Patriarchate of Alexandria and all Africa have already accepted the outcome of the official dialogue on Christology between the Orthodox Church and the Oriental Orthodox Churches, including the two official agreements: the first on Christology signed in June 1989 in Egypt and the second also on Christology and on the lifting of anathemas and restoration of full communion signed in Geneva 1990, in which it is stated that "In the light of our agreed statement on Christology..., we have now clearly understood that both families have always loyally maintained the same authentic Orthodox Christological faith, and the unbroken continuity of Apostolic tradition". It was agreed to have mutual recognition of the sacrament of Baptism, based on what St Paul wrote, "One Lord, one faith, one baptism" (Eph 4:5)

But since up until now we are waiting for the responses of the Holy Synods of some other churches in both families, the restoration of full communion is not yet reached between the two sides of the bi-lateral dialogue. And due to the pastoral consequences and implications caued by mixed Christian marriages between the members of the two Patriarchates of Alexandria, having the majority of their people living in the same countries. Those marriages being difficult to perform in both Churches at the same time or in concelebration. The result is that mant sensitivities are created between the two families of the partners of such marriage. Those sensitivities which can extend even after the marriage and may affect the relation between the two communities of churches.

For those mentioned reasons, the Holy Synods of both Patriarchates have agreed to accept the sacrament of marriage which is conducted in either Church with the condition that it is conducted for two partners not belonging to the same Patriarchate of the other Church from their origin. Both the Bride and the Groom should carry a valid certificate from his/her own Patriarchate that he/she has a permit of marriage and indicating the details of his/her marriage status up to date.

Each of the two Patriarchates shall also accept to perform all of its other sacraments to that new family of Mixed Christian Marriage.

It is agreed that the Patriarchate which shall perform the marriage shall be responsible for any marriage problems that may happen concerning this certain marriage, taking into consideration the unified marriage laws signed by the heads of Churches in Egypt in the year 1999.

Each Patriarchate shall preserve its right not to give its sacraments to any persons whom she does not find fulfilling its canons according to the Apostolic Tradition.

In other words a Coptic person can marry a Greek Orthodox person in the Greek Orthodox Patriarchate of Alexandria with the marriage being accepted by both churches, and the baptism of the other is already accepted by both Churches.


So I'm allowed to marry Irene?

[Deleted User]

The user and all related content has been deleted.

Khas.

[quote author=DimyanCoptic link=topic=10613.msg129487#msg129487 date=1296693155]
[quote author=Khas. link=topic=10613.msg129478#msg129478 date=1296691941]
[quote author=anba bola link=topic=10613.msg129360#msg129360 date=1296618584]

Pastoral Agreement between the Coptic Orthodox and Greek Orthodox Patriarchates of Alexandria

Since the Holy Synods of both the Coptic Orthodox Church and the Greek Orthodox Patriarchate of Alexandria and all Africa have already accepted the outcome of the official dialogue on Christology between the Orthodox Church and the Oriental Orthodox Churches, including the two official agreements: the first on Christology signed in June 1989 in Egypt and the second also on Christology and on the lifting of anathemas and restoration of full communion signed in Geneva 1990, in which it is stated that "In the light of our agreed statement on Christology..., we have now clearly understood that both families have always loyally maintained the same authentic Orthodox Christological faith, and the unbroken continuity of Apostolic tradition". It was agreed to have mutual recognition of the sacrament of Baptism, based on what St Paul wrote, "One Lord, one faith, one baptism" (Eph 4:5)

But since up until now we are waiting for the responses of the Holy Synods of some other churches in both families, the restoration of full communion is not yet reached between the two sides of the bi-lateral dialogue. And due to the pastoral consequences and implications caued by mixed Christian marriages between the members of the two Patriarchates of Alexandria, having the majority of their people living in the same countries. Those marriages being difficult to perform in both Churches at the same time or in concelebration. The result is that mant sensitivities are created between the two families of the partners of such marriage. Those sensitivities which can extend even after the marriage and may affect the relation between the two communities of churches.

For those mentioned reasons, the Holy Synods of both Patriarchates have agreed to accept the sacrament of marriage which is conducted in either Church with the condition that it is conducted for two partners not belonging to the same Patriarchate of the other Church from their origin. Both the Bride and the Groom should carry a valid certificate from his/her own Patriarchate that he/she has a permit of marriage and indicating the details of his/her marriage status up to date.

Each of the two Patriarchates shall also accept to perform all of its other sacraments to that new family of Mixed Christian Marriage.

It is agreed that the Patriarchate which shall perform the marriage shall be responsible for any marriage problems that may happen concerning this certain marriage, taking into consideration the unified marriage laws signed by the heads of Churches in Egypt in the year 1999.

Each Patriarchate shall preserve its right not to give its sacraments to any persons whom she does not find fulfilling its canons according to the Apostolic Tradition.

In other words a Coptic person can marry a Greek Orthodox person in the Greek Orthodox Patriarchate of Alexandria with the marriage being accepted by both churches, and the baptism of the other is already accepted by both Churches.


So I'm allowed to marry Irene?


who's irene?

Some girl I know... It doesn't concern you.

ServentofGod

Thanks for all the replays, but I am still a bit confused. Is it okay to marry an Eastern Orthodox since the difference is not theological?

peterfarrington

In some circumstances.

ServentofGod

okay, thank you Father Peter

and thank you everyone for the replays