Different Types of Annual Psalms

joeg

Ok guys, just checking I'm not making a mistake:

From what I understand, there are 5 potential ways that the Annual Psalm in the Raising of Incense & Liturgy could be chanted:

1) Either "damgan" - in the same way that the Canon (Amen Alleluia Doxa Patri) at the end of the Liturgy is said.

2) The Short Annual tune: "Al Molakhass el mokhtasar" (Like the one on this page)

3) The Medium Annual Tune: "Al Molakhass" (Like this)

4) The Long Annual Tune (also called the Great Ouoini tune): titled here as "2nd Liturgy Psalm - Great Annual Tune." (the one on that page marked as "Long Annual tune" is the normal "Al Molakhass.")

5) In the case of Raising of Evening Incense, the psalm could be chanted in the style of "Je Avsaji."
As I posted that URL, its Cantor Wagdi Bishara, but it's marked Liturgy Psalm... I always thought the "Je Avsaji" tune was reserved for Raising of Evening Incense only?

Sound about right to you?

Anyone have a recording of the completely normal tune (no.1) I mentioned first? (I have recordings of them all except for that one)

Are the top 4 tunes completely interchangeable whenever? (I get the feeling they are, but could someone confirm for me please?)

What do you know about the "Je Avsaji" tune? Is it exclusive to Vespers only?

Thank you all

geomike

I cant answer ur question but i am curious to why Cantor Tawfik always holds his ear when he chants.

joeg

[quote author=geomike link=topic=10662.msg129960#msg129960 date=1297110960]
I cant answer ur question but i am curious to why Cantor Tawfik always holds his ear when he chants.


Perhaps he is making certain he is in tune?

Even a Cantor's sharp ears start to get worse with very old age.

geomike

Very interesting.

kyrollos faheem

I'm wondering how the "damgan" way sounds like. Thanks.

minatasgeel

".", you mixed a lot of things together.....really.

first, the link for the damg version is the one you put on #2, the "Al Molakhass el mokhtasar", you can find the original here with M Sadek says it. It's exactly (or close enough) to what Ibrahim Ayad says.
http://tasbeha.org/mp3/Divine_Liturgies/Higher_Institute_of_Coptic_Studies,_Liturgy_of_St._Basil_in_Coptic/Part_2.html
a not: there is nothing called "Al Molakhass el mokhtasar." the word "molakhas" means "summery" and so does the word "mokhtasar". there exists a "singary mokhtasar" which is not an annual psalm but a festive one.

the other tune is the Molakhas that is, O-oinee afshai and that is originally recorded and handed down by m Tawfik.
the version that you see as "great long annual psalm" is a version that Wagdi Bishara brought from old sources from Alexandria. It is worth noting that not much people know about. so you'll not hear people speak about it at all.

Je-avsajee is known to be the annual tune of Matins and vespers simply because it was always handed down to be said as the psalm of Saint mary's feast (at the end of the fast). from there it was taken to be the annual tune. AGAIN, the reason Wagdi Bishara records the liturgy psalm in this tune is that there are a lot of talk about these tune. many believe that we lost a couple of tune. as a result, we might be just taking what we have and fitting it wherever we desire. so, to help everyone, he rakeeb the same exact psalm on all three tune and left the choice for the listen to learn what he wishes. please pm him to understand more. these are not realy my words alone.

joeg

[quote author=minatasgeel link=topic=10662.msg130511#msg130511 date=1297482886]
".", you mixed a lot of things together.....really.

first, the link for the damg version is the one you put on #2, the "Al Molakhass el mokhtasar", you can find the original here with M Sadek says it. It's exactly (or close enough) to what Ibrahim Ayad says.
http://tasbeha.org/mp3/Divine_Liturgies/Higher_Institute_of_Coptic_Studies,_Liturgy_of_St._Basil_in_Coptic/Part_2.html

Ok, thanks for clarifying. So this is the shortest tune for the Annual Psalm, #1 and #2 are the same.

a not: there is nothing called "Al Molakhass el mokhtasar." the word "molakhas" means "summery" and so does the word "mokhtasar". there exists a "singary mokhtasar" which is not an annual psalm but a festive one.

I have a recording of Mo'allem Zaher Andrawes which I got from here, in which he refers to it as "Al Molakhass Al Mokhtassar" in the introduction he gives before chanting it. It might just be his name for it though. Whatever it is called though, are we agreed that it is the same tune as #1?

the other tune is the Molakhas that is, O-oinee afshai and that is originally recorded and handed down by m Tawfik.

Agreed.

the version that you see as "great long annual psalm" is a version that Wagdi Bishara brought from old sources from Alexandria. It is worth noting that not much people know about. so you'll not hear people speak about it at all.

Ah, ok cool. I found a recording online of this tune by someone called Cantor Amir Saleh, but I have no idea who that is. I'll learn it from Wagdi Bishara.

Je-avsajee is known to be the annual tune of Matins and vespers simply because it was always handed down to be said as the psalm of Saint mary's feast (at the end of the fast). from there it was taken to be the annual tune. AGAIN, the reason Wagdi Bishara records the liturgy psalm in this tune is that there are a lot of talk about these tune. many believe that we lost a couple of tune. as a result, we might be just taking what we have and fitting it wherever we desire. so, to help everyone, he rakeeb the same exact psalm on all three tune and left the choice for the listen to learn what he wishes. please pm him to understand more. these are not realy my words alone.

I understand partially what you're saying, but I don't really understand the motive of why it was done. I'll PM him as you suggest to find out more.

Thanks for your help Mina.

minatasgeel

[quote author=. link=topic=10662.msg130534#msg130534 date=1297506076]
a not: there is nothing called "Al Molakhass el mokhtasar." the word "molakhas" means "summery" and so does the word "mokhtasar". there exists a "singary mokhtasar" which is not an annual psalm but a festive one.

I have a recording of Mo'allem Zaher Andrawes which I got from here, in which he refers to it as "Al Molakhass Al Mokhtassar" in the introduction he gives before chanting it. It might just be his name for it though. Whatever it is called though, are we agreed that it is the same tune as #1?


find it and let me hear it.

joeg

[quote author=minatasgeel]find it and let me hear it.

I can't hyperlink straight to the hymn as it is in the Youth Bishopric's database. PM me your email, I'll send it that way.