E.O - Videos like these make me mad!

Pharaoh714

Why do Eastern Orthodox people keep posting videos like these, Utter ignorance.  Is this how Eastern Orthodox really feel about us?

epchois_nai_nan

[quote author=Pharaoh714 link=topic=10962.msg132777#msg132777 date=1299899776]



Wow, this guy really needs to get his facts straight.

I'm not very familiar with the history (so correct me if I'm wrong) but I don't think anyone claims that Dioscorus actually physically killed Flavian himself - he was in the room when it happened and probably should have done more to stop the beating, but this guy makes it sound like he purposefully murdered him!

Edit: Actually it looks some people in the EO actually do think it was Dioscorus himself: http://www.ewtn.com/library/MARY/FLAVIAN.HTM

andrew8345

Wow! . . . I repeat Pharoah714's question: Is this how the EO really feel about us?!!

dzheremi

[quote author=epchois_nai_nan link=topic=10962.msg132785#msg132785 date=1299914554]
[quote author=Pharaoh714 link=topic=10962.msg132777#msg132777 date=1299899776]



Wow, this guy really needs to get his facts straight.

I'm not very familiar with the history (so correct me if I'm wrong) but I don't think anyone claims that Dioscorus actually physically killed Flavian himself - he was in the room when it happened and probably should have done more to stop the beating, but this guy makes it sound like he purposefully murdered him!

Edit: Actually it looks some people in the EO actually do think it was Dioscorus himself: http://www.ewtn.com/library/MARY/FLAVIAN.HTM



EWTN is a Roman Catholic television network (and website, apparently), not affiliated with the EO communion in any way.

copticuser20

What is he talking about how there is one Coptic and there is one Orthodox Patriarch at minute 3??

peterfarrington

He means that there is a Greek Orthodox Patriarch and a Coptic Orthodox one.

peterfarrington

Flavian was not killed at Ephesus. He was still sending letters to people months after the council. The very famous and scholarly Church historian Henry Chadwick believes that Flavian was eventually kept in the Imperial palace and that Marcian and Pulcheria had him disposed of when he was of no more use to them.

copticuser20

What makes him think we are monophisite?

Pharaoh714

[quote author=copticuser20 link=topic=10962.msg132800#msg132800 date=1299951852]
What makes him think we are monophisite?


Because comments like these

"I wanna make something clear. many people even Eastern orthodox think that we and oriental ''orthodox'' have same faith. but we haven't after the fourth ecumenical council. we cancelled communion with them in the fifth century. and this is disrespecting of ecumenical council. miaphysitism and monophysitism are officially heresies."

theNIKOLAOSm 5 months ago

anba bola

Pharaoh714,

There is no need to be angry, just explain things calmly and clearly. It is clear that they misunderstand our belief.

Please pray for me as I'm facing temptations right now

epchois_nai_nan

[quote author=Father Peter link=topic=10962.msg132799#msg132799 date=1299949213]
Flavian was not killed at Ephesus. He was still sending letters to people months after the council. The very famous and scholarly Church historian Henry Chadwick believes that Flavian was eventually kept in the Imperial palace and that Marcian and Pulcheria had him disposed of when he was of no more use to them.


Father could you recommend any sources on this issue? I am interested to find out more.

PopeKyrillos

I talked to him and succeeded in getting him to remove the video. The key with these people is that you should never attack or insult them, or their church. You gotta have patience, and unfortunately, it seems he has major issues with some Armenians who haven't upheld the teachings of Christ by loving their neighbor. And now, he wants to be my friend, just because I showed him a little kindness by setting Christ first.

PK

Zoxsasi

[quote author=PopeKyrillos link=topic=10962.msg132845#msg132845 date=1300056757]
I talked to him and succeeded in getting him to remove the video. The key with these people is that you should never attack or insult them, or their church. You gotta have patience, and unfortunately, it seems he has major issues with some Armenians who haven't upheld the teachings of Christ by loving their neighbor. And now, he wants to be my friend, just because I showed him a little kindness by setting Christ first.

PK


Wow.. well done PK.

But make it clear to him that there are NO Churches who are monophysite. Monophysism only recognises ONE nature of Christ - (which is the human nature).

This is a wicked situation the EO have gotten themselves into - how do they apologise for something like this???? Do they think its wiser to attack us with lies than to admit a mistake on their part??

I think we have had enough of divisions. I'm not even interested in an apology. I just want unity now

Pharaoh714

[quote author=Zoxsasi link=topic=10962.msg132869#msg132869 date=1300065398]
[quote author=PopeKyrillos link=topic=10962.msg132845#msg132845 date=1300056757]
I talked to him and succeeded in getting him to remove the video. The key with these people is that you should never attack or insult them, or their church. You gotta have patience, and unfortunately, it seems he has major issues with some Armenians who haven't upheld the teachings of Christ by loving their neighbor. And now, he wants to be my friend, just because I showed him a little kindness by setting Christ first.

PK




there are NO Churches who are monophysite. Monophysism only recognises ONE nature of Christ - (which is the human nature).



There are no Churches but there are Mosques.. Muslims only believe Christ is Human and not divine so I guess that term applies to them.

andrew8345

Props PK!  :D

peterfarrington

epchois,

There are quite a few references to Flavian being alive many months after the council closed, but a particularly useful resouce is Chadwicks paper on the subject. I have a copy somewhere and will scan it for you.

God bless

Father Peter

Zoxsasi

[quote author=Father Peter link=topic=10962.msg132895#msg132895 date=1300089089]
epchois,

There are quite a few references to Flavian being alive many months after the council closed, but a particularly useful resouce is Chadwicks paper on the subject. I have a copy somewhere and will scan it for you.

God bless

Father Peter


When is this going to end, Fr Peter ??

Is there a time/situation where the EO will actually realize that we have NEVER been monophysite??

Pharoah714:

Yes... that's right, there are only mosques who are monophysites, I think these and Jehovah's witnesses.

aidan

I'm surprised Fr Peter hasn't corrected you Zoxasi but as far as I'm aware monophysite refers to the one DIVINE nature of Christ, not the human one. Although Copts aren'y monophysites JWs and Muslims most certainly aren't. They are closer to Arius.

Have a happy lent

Zoxsasi

[quote author=aidan link=topic=10962.msg132910#msg132910 date=1300107997]
I'm surprised Fr Peter hasn't corrected you Zoxasi but as far as I'm aware monophysite refers to the one DIVINE nature of Christ, not the human one. Although Copts aren'y monophysites JWs and Muslims most certainly aren't. They are closer to Arius.

Have a happy lent


According to the book: The Nature of Christ, by His Holiness Pope Shenouda III, on page 4, His Holiness refers to monophysism as ONE nature - either Divine or Human (but not both).

However, from the context of historical misinterpretations against the Coptic Orthodox Churches, with respect to us being accused to being Monophysites, it appears that this leaned towards only ONE nature: Christ's Human nature only.

Monophysite means : ONE Nature. So, anyone who believes that Christ had ONE Nature only was a monophysite. Therefore, because Muslims do not accept Christ's Divinity, and see him ONLY AS A MAN, they are also monophysites.

peterfarrington

Muslims aren't monophysites.

Monophysites (i.e us) were accused of believing that Christ was not truly human as well as Divine. They claimed that we taught that His humanity was swallowed up by His Divinity.

Father Peter

Zoxsasi

[quote author=Father Peter link=topic=10962.msg132920#msg132920 date=1300123021]
Muslims aren't monophysites.

Monophysites (i.e us) were accused of believing that Christ was not truly human as well as Divine. They claimed that we taught that His humanity was swallowed up by His Divinity.

Father Peter


Thanks Aidan, thanks Fr. Peter,

My understanding was that, from His Holiness's book, he defines monophysism as ONE Nature. Which is what the term means.

We were never monophysites, the claim of His humanity was swallowed by his divinity was from Eutchyes.

Eutyches said that the human nature was absorbed and dissolved in the Divine nature as a drop of vinegar in the ocean. In this way, he denied the human nature of Christ.

If you read the Nature of Christ, here's a quote from the Pope:

After the schism which took place in the year 451  A.D., when the Coptic Orthodox Church rejected the motions of the Council of Chalcedon and its theological struggles, we were called "Monophysites" that is, those who believe in the "One Nature".

He states that the term monophysite (as we were accused of in Chalcedon) refers to us being accused of accepting ONE NATURE only!!

The council of Chalcedon was at 451 AD, and the definition of monophysism was still those who were accused of believing in ONE nature.

So - from what you are saying, that one nature was the "Divine" nature? i.e. that His Divinity consumed His Humanity?

Thanks for your correction - my apologies. I just thought it meant ONE nature.. regardless

I guess muslims are not even monophysites then.

PopeKyrillos

Muslims would have to be the opposite of monophysite. They believe Jesus is perfectly human as a prophet while monophysitism states that Jesus is pretty much entirely divine.

geomike

The guy who made this took the video off youtube thank God.

Ioannes

These claims have no sources to verify them. There is no evidence that St Dioscorous did anything that the EO claim he did. The fact is Leo I of Rome was the first to really push papal primacy, and even supported Theodoret, a confirmed nestorian heretic who wrote AGAINST St Cyril. Leo actually forced the 4th council into letting Theodoret testify against St Dioscorous, whom he had an obvious grudge with. The Tome of Leo also separates the natures of Christ AFTER the union. Despite what people think, St Dioscorous did not really make many mistakes, Flavian was a heretic and he was right in condemning him. What happened then was a power play by Leo I. Anytime someone says these absurd things, ask them for the proof, they wont have any. If interested get the book "The council of Chalcedon re-examined" By Fr. VC Samuel or even Fr. Peters book.