Tune of Psalm during Lent

p

I want to make triple sure that I know how the Psalm sounds like in the annual tune. Can someone send me the tune that we use for Lent? In addition, can someone tell me when we should use

Je afcaji

tune vs.

Ouwini afsai

tune. Thankssss

jydeacon

Its annual, je afsaji for vespers, ouini afshai for liturgy

minatasgeel

[quote author=jydeacon link=topic=10975.msg132913#msg132913 date=1300117921]
Its annual, je afsaji for vespers, ouini afshai for liturgy

i would also recommend the fast annual tune instead of ou-oinee afshai which does have many parts of the singary festive.

ophadece

WHat's the recommendation got anything to do with the answer Mina? Fast tune, or longer tune both are still chanted in fasting. We also sing abanshois on the tune of other "festive" paralaxes... well at least Sundays.
Oujai

minatasgeel

[quote author=ophadece link=topic=10975.msg132938#msg132938 date=1300126397]
WHat's the recommendation got anything to do with the answer Mina? Fast tune, or longer tune both are still chanted in fasting. We also sing abanshois on the tune of other "festive" paralaxes... well at least Sundays.
Oujai


well...it's nothing serious. it's just as you said, "a recommendation"  ;D :D

p

What would be the fast annual tune, Mina? I am pretty sure there are about a billion variations when it comes to Psalms because there so many schools of teaching and changes in tunes...

minatasgeel

[quote author=aem581 link=topic=10975.msg132993#msg132993 date=1300142601]
What would be the fast annual tune, Mina? I am pretty sure there are about a billion variations when it comes to Psalms because there so many schools of teaching and changes in tunes...

http://tasbeha.org/mp3/Divine_Liturgies/Higher_Institute_of_Coptic_Studies,_Liturgy_of_St._Basil_in_Coptic/Part_2.html

go play Psalm, fourth from the top.

the reason that there may be different "schools of teaching" is that the psalms change; cantors take the way and rakeb on certain psalms. exactly like holy week. so that creates more "ways" for those who don't get the concept of tarkeep.

p

No, dude, I mean like different tunes even on regular Sundays...

minatasgeel

[quote author=aem581 link=topic=10975.msg133036#msg133036 date=1300165174]
No, dude, I mean like different tunes even on regular Sundays...

none that we know about. i actually believe that we might of lost some psalm tunes across the years. i am sure it is possible that we had a psalm tune for lent and maybe palm sunday...maybe other occasions to.

ophadece

This specific point I completely agree with Mina. Without starting a new post, I guess that applies to psalm 150 for both ceremonials too. If you listen to the one for Lent from different cantors you'll notice some differences, and my argument is that psalm 150 should have different tune to any Watos doxology in those ceremonials. THat's why I don't believe in Cantor Ibrahim's joyful recording...
OUJai

minatasgeel

[quote author=ophadece link=topic=10975.msg133039#msg133039 date=1300175675]
... THat's why I don't believe in Cantor Ibrahim's joyful recording...
OUJai

well....he follows a teaching rather than a recording. that is acceptable.....not to many. but it is

ophadece

St. James advises us not to be too many teachers for in many things we ALL stumble... I can see many things done in hymns nowadays only on a whim and caprice rather than sticking to what was handed down... sad to say it, but...
Oujai

jydeacon

[quote author=ophadece link=topic=10975.msg133039#msg133039 date=1300175675]
This specific point I completely agree with Mina. Without starting a new post, I guess that applies to psalm 150 for both ceremonials too. If you listen to the one for Lent from different cantors you'll notice some differences, and my argument is that psalm 150 should have different tune to any Watos doxology in those ceremonials. THat's why I don't believe in Cantor Ibrahim's joyful recording...
OUJai


I'm not sure I follow what you are saying here. Can you clarify?

minatasgeel

[quote author=ophadece link=topic=10975.msg133043#msg133043 date=1300180087]
St. James advises us not to be too many teachers for in many things we ALL stumble... I can see many things done in hymns nowadays only on a whim and caprice rather than sticking to what was handed down... sad to say it, but...
Oujai

but there isn't anything handed down. but we still believe that lost a LOT. so we search for the least of info or recordings to try to bring back what we lost.

ophadece

YEs Mina I agree, but has to be something quite authentic, not just a verbal opinion...
Jydeacon, in a nut shell I don't believe psalm 150 lenten is authentic enough. I believe there must be a lost tune...
Oujai

jydeacon

Why do you say that? It follows the same pattern that every other feast does. Are you implying the feasts have lost tunes as well?

kyrollos faheem

[quote author=ophadece link=topic=10975.msg133070#msg133070 date=1300218407]
YEs Mina I agree, but has to be something quite authentic, not just a verbal opinion...
Jydeacon, in a nut shell I don't believe psalm 150 lenten is authentic enough. I believe there must be a lost tune...
Oujai


I agree with you if you're talking about the Lent weekends Psalm 150 introduction because on any other occasion, there is a long introduction but then it switches to the short (e.g. festive days such the Resurrection, Palm Sunday, Annual days, etc...)

I do believe that there was a Lent weekends Psalm 150 long introduction that was lost throughout the years. Another thing that I have noticed that makes me believe that is that the Lent weekdays psalm has a long introduction and then it switches to the short.

ophadece

Dear jydeacon,
What I meant is the introduction of psalm 150 recorded by cantor Ibrahim is different to the one by Fr. Metthias. The former I don't believe in, but I do in the latter... I guess we lost the psalm 150 tune (at the least the long intro) to sha'anini...
Dear kemka,
I have the same impression like you do...
oujai qen `P[C

minatasgeel

[quote author=ophadece link=topic=10975.msg133124#msg133124 date=1300278211]
Dear jydeacon,
What I meant is the introduction of psalm 150 recorded by cantor Ibrahim is different to the one by Fr. Metthias. The former I don't believe in, but I do in the latter... I guess we lost the psalm 150 tune (at the least the long intro) to sha'anini...
the ophadece. i still think they are the same. the only thing that he did is take the normal wa said by Abouna Metias (originally by m Tawfik) and put in alleluias instead of the feast response.

Dear kemka,
I have the same impression like you do...

you guys and your consprescy  theories  :)

ophadece

They are not the same "mr. without musical ears".
oujai qen `P[C

minatasgeel

[quote author=ophadece link=topic=10975.msg133129#msg133129 date=1300279447]
They are not the same "mr. without musical ears".
oujai qen `P[C

i rmemrber that argument.....but i still believe in him. i don't need to have musical ear really. i haven't been learning much alhan. ACTUALLY, maybe this is a good time to announce this: Ibrahim Ayad might be coming to the Archdiocese of North America in may. 

ophadece

Well I can't believe Cantor Ibrahim Ayad said so himself. Can you confirm this again, because I can't believe what I'm hearing, or did you mean you believe in his tune?
Oujai

minatasgeel

[quote author=ophadece link=topic=10975.msg133205#msg133205 date=1300318055]
Well I can't believe Cantor Ibrahim Ayad said so himself. Can you confirm this again, because I can't believe what I'm hearing, or did you mean you believe in his tune?
Oujai

confirm what exactly?

ophadece

Confirm that he said the tune is the same as FR. Mattias's one and both follow the sharat, or have I completely lost you?
Oujai