Hmm... I've never heard that before. Is that written in one of the service books? Maybe, maybe true during the weekdays, but would not the weekends be exempt from this then?
The lent is a season to remember our weakness and what the Lord did to overcome it through fasting and prayer. All of the hymns and the prayers center on this idea. So, it is improper to break the flow of prayers to say a Madee7 for a saint and leave the act of salvation that the Lord did.
After Synexarium, on Saturdays and Sundays, Mighalo is said. So, are we to praise a saint before praising and glorifying our Lord Jesus?
During communion, the Church put different Madde7 that focus on theme of the week. Are we to leave these and praise a saint instead. It is only appropriate to focus on our salvation through our Lord's fasting.
Regarding the ritual books, let me explain briefly the history of how we got the rites as recorded in the books we have in our hands. There are several manuscripts written during the middle ages between the 11th century to the 16th that explain in detail what should happen. The most important of these is Tarteeb Alby3a.
All the current books have taken, with variation I should say, from these manuscripts and unfortunately added stuff that was not mentioned.
[quote author=imikhail link=topic=11181.msg135031#msg135031 date=1301750321] The lent is a season to remember our weakness and what the Lord did to overcome it through fasting and prayer. All of the hymns and the prayers center on this idea. So, it is improper to break the flow of prayers to say a Madee7 for a saint and leave the act of salvation that the Lord did.
After Synexarium, on Saturdays and Sundays, Mighalo is said. So, are we to praise a saint before praising and glorifying our Lord Jesus?
During communion, the Church put different Madde7 that focus on theme of the week. Are we to leave these and praise a saint instead. It is only appropriate to focus on our salvation through our Lord's fasting.
Regarding the ritual books, let me explain briefly the history of how we got the rites as recorded in the books we have in our hands. There are several manuscripts written during the middle ages between the 11th century to the 16th that explain in detail what should happen. The most important of these is Tarteeb Alby3a.
All the current books have taken, with variation I should say, from these manuscripts and unfortunately added stuff that was not mentioned.
Thanks
Well, that's your personal take on the matter then, and not really a rite. I still disagree however, because if the Church wanted us to focus solely on Lent and our repentance, why even read the Synaxarium? We only glorify saints in the context of how they fulfilled Christ's teachings, and so we do look at them during Lent as an example of how, through fasting and prayer, we too can attain sainthood. Coincidentally, the last verse of the Apenchois for Lent is actually one that praises Saint Mary, so the Church fathers definitely don't see a problem with it.
(Glorifications during communion are an iffy subject, and depend on the priest's discretion, which is why I suggested doing the glorification in it's rightful place. During Lent you should definitely say the proper communion hymns, and then if there is still time (which their probably won't be during the week or on a Saturday), you can see if your priest wants you to say a glorification.)
Well, that's your personal take on the matter then, and not really a rite. I still disagree however, because if the Church wanted us to focus solely on Lent and our repentance, why even read the Synaxarium?
There is a difference between reading the synexarium and praising a saint. Let me ask, where in the liturgy is the proper place for glorification or praising a saint? The answer is during the matins, vespers, midnight praises and after the Synexarium. As I explained if you are going to say glorification after the synexarium, then it is improper because during Lent, there are special hymns said. Then this is not my personal opinion, this is how the rite is done.
During communion, there are special hymns for Lent as well, bimayromi during weekdays and onishdy on Saturdays and Sundays then the madaye7. This is the Church's rite.
Coincidentally, the last verse of the Apenchois for Lent is actually one that praises Saint Mary
No, it is not, this is a recent addition. It is written till Ja banyot in the Tarteeb Albay3a and the verses are actually taken from the 2nd doxology which has the only three verses.
Well, that's your personal take on the matter then, and not really a rite. I still disagree however, because if the Church wanted us to focus solely on Lent and our repentance, why even read the Synaxarium?
There is a difference between reading the synexarium and praising a saint. Let me ask, where in the liturgy is the proper place for glorification or praising a saint? The answer is during the matins, vespers, midnight praises and after the Synexarium. As I explained if you are going to say glorification after the synexarium, then it is improper because during Lent, there are special hymns said. Then this is not my personal opinion, this is how the rite is done.
Indeed, there is a difference, but in both cases we are "forgetting" the theme of Lent for those few minutes and remembering the saints before us. There are special Lenten hymns, the glorification hymns are said in addition to them, not instead of them. It's just like saying Nisavev in addition to Nefsenti during weekdays in the presence of a bishop.
During communion, there are special hymns for Lent as well, bimayromi during weekdays and onishdy on Saturdays and Sundays then the madaye7. This is the Church's rite.
Indeed, this is the rite, but few people bother learning both pimayromi and onishtee, and especially on Sundays we very rarely say onishtee. It's very sad indeed! :( Even more annoying is when people insist on saying "Blessed are those..." during the week. At the abbey in Texas, they say this madeha but in the weekday tune. (On Friday I actually had an argument with an uncle who not only wanted to say the medeha, but in the weekend tune, and, worst of all, for last Sunday, ie. the Samaritan woman!)
Coincidentally, the last verse of the Apenchois for Lent is actually one that praises Saint Mary
No, it is not, this is a recent addition. It is written till Ja banyot in the Tarteeb Albay3a and the verses are actually taken from the 2nd doxology which has the only three verses.
Thanks.
Recent addition or not, it's still an accepted hymn that has been approved by Cantor Ibrahim Ayad (say what you want, he is an authority on the matter, at least in the eyes of HH Pope Shenouda), as well HG Bishop David (as it is present in the presentation software) as well as HG Bishop Youssef (as it is found in the Service of the Deacons book).
Anyways, the day is over. I'm curious as to what the OP ended up doing? I'm not sure what they did at my church in regards to a glorification, but they did say onof em Mariya.
Well, that's your personal take on the matter then, and not really a rite. I still disagree however, because if the Church wanted us to focus solely on Lent and our repentance, why even read the Synaxarium?
There is a difference between reading the synexarium and praising a saint. Let me ask, where in the liturgy is the proper place for glorification or praising a saint? The answer is during the matins, vespers, midnight praises and after the Synexarium. As I explained if you are going to say glorification after the synexarium, then it is improper because during Lent, there are special hymns said. Then this is not my personal opinion, this is how the rite is done.
Indeed, there is a difference, but in both cases we are "forgetting" the theme of Lent for those few minutes and remembering the saints before us. There are special Lenten hymns, the glorification hymns are said in addition to them, not instead of them. It's just like saying Nisavev in addition to Nefsenti during weekdays in the presence of a bishop.
During communion, there are special hymns for Lent as well, bimayromi during weekdays and onishdy on Saturdays and Sundays then the madaye7. This is the Church's rite.
Indeed, this is the rite, but few people bother learning both pimayromi and onishtee, and especially on Sundays we very rarely say onishtee. It's very sad indeed! :( Even more annoying is when people insist on saying "Blessed are those..." during the week. At the abbey in Texas, they say this madeha but in the weekday tune. (On Friday I actually had an argument with an uncle who not only wanted to say the medeha, but in the weekend tune, and, worst of all, for last Sunday, ie. the Samaritan woman!)
Coincidentally, the last verse of the Apenchois for Lent is actually one that praises Saint Mary
No, it is not, this is a recent addition. It is written till Ja banyot in the Tarteeb Albay3a and the verses are actually taken from the 2nd doxology which has the only three verses.
Thanks.
Recent addition or not, it's still an accepted hymn that has been approved by Cantor Ibrahim Ayad (say what you want, he is an authority on the matter, at least in the eyes of HH Pope Shenouda), as well HG Bishop David (as it is present in the presentation software) as well as HG Bishop Youssef (as it is found in the Service of the Deacons book).
Anyways, the day is over. I'm curious as to what the OP ended up doing? I'm not sure what they did at my church in regards to a glorification, but they did say onof em Mariya.
Comments
After Synexarium, on Saturdays and Sundays, Mighalo is said. So, are we to praise a saint before praising and glorifying our Lord Jesus?
During communion, the Church put different Madde7 that focus on theme of the week. Are we to leave these and praise a saint instead. It is only appropriate to focus on our salvation through our Lord's fasting.
Regarding the ritual books, let me explain briefly the history of how we got the rites as recorded in the books we have in our hands. There are several manuscripts written during the middle ages between the 11th century to the 16th that explain in detail what should happen. The most important of these is Tarteeb Alby3a.
All the current books have taken, with variation I should say, from these manuscripts and unfortunately added stuff that was not mentioned.
Thanks
The lent is a season to remember our weakness and what the Lord did to overcome it through fasting and prayer. All of the hymns and the prayers center on this idea. So, it is improper to break the flow of prayers to say a Madee7 for a saint and leave the act of salvation that the Lord did.
After Synexarium, on Saturdays and Sundays, Mighalo is said. So, are we to praise a saint before praising and glorifying our Lord Jesus?
During communion, the Church put different Madde7 that focus on theme of the week. Are we to leave these and praise a saint instead. It is only appropriate to focus on our salvation through our Lord's fasting.
Regarding the ritual books, let me explain briefly the history of how we got the rites as recorded in the books we have in our hands. There are several manuscripts written during the middle ages between the 11th century to the 16th that explain in detail what should happen. The most important of these is Tarteeb Alby3a.
All the current books have taken, with variation I should say, from these manuscripts and unfortunately added stuff that was not mentioned.
Thanks
Well, that's your personal take on the matter then, and not really a rite. I still disagree however, because if the Church wanted us to focus solely on Lent and our repentance, why even read the Synaxarium? We only glorify saints in the context of how they fulfilled Christ's teachings, and so we do look at them during Lent as an example of how, through fasting and prayer, we too can attain sainthood. Coincidentally, the last verse of the Apenchois for Lent is actually one that praises Saint Mary, so the Church fathers definitely don't see a problem with it.
(Glorifications during communion are an iffy subject, and depend on the priest's discretion, which is why I suggested doing the glorification in it's rightful place. During Lent you should definitely say the proper communion hymns, and then if there is still time (which their probably won't be during the week or on a Saturday), you can see if your priest wants you to say a glorification.)
During communion, there are special hymns for Lent as well, bimayromi during weekdays and onishdy on Saturdays and Sundays then the madaye7. This is the Church's rite. No, it is not, this is a recent addition. It is written till Ja banyot in the Tarteeb Albay3a and the verses are actually taken from the 2nd doxology which has the only three verses.
Thanks.
Indeed, there is a difference, but in both cases we are "forgetting" the theme of Lent for those few minutes and remembering the saints before us. There are special Lenten hymns, the glorification hymns are said in addition to them, not instead of them. It's just like saying Nisavev in addition to Nefsenti during weekdays in the presence of a bishop. Indeed, this is the rite, but few people bother learning both pimayromi and onishtee, and especially on Sundays we very rarely say onishtee. It's very sad indeed! :( Even more annoying is when people insist on saying "Blessed are those..." during the week. At the abbey in Texas, they say this madeha but in the weekday tune. (On Friday I actually had an argument with an uncle who not only wanted to say the medeha, but in the weekend tune, and, worst of all, for last Sunday, ie. the Samaritan woman!) Recent addition or not, it's still an accepted hymn that has been approved by Cantor Ibrahim Ayad (say what you want, he is an authority on the matter, at least in the eyes of HH Pope Shenouda), as well HG Bishop David (as it is present in the presentation software) as well as HG Bishop Youssef (as it is found in the Service of the Deacons book).
Anyways, the day is over. I'm curious as to what the OP ended up doing? I'm not sure what they did at my church in regards to a glorification, but they did say onof em Mariya.
Indeed, there is a difference, but in both cases we are "forgetting" the theme of Lent for those few minutes and remembering the saints before us. There are special Lenten hymns, the glorification hymns are said in addition to them, not instead of them. It's just like saying Nisavev in addition to Nefsenti during weekdays in the presence of a bishop. Indeed, this is the rite, but few people bother learning both pimayromi and onishtee, and especially on Sundays we very rarely say onishtee. It's very sad indeed! :( Even more annoying is when people insist on saying "Blessed are those..." during the week. At the abbey in Texas, they say this madeha but in the weekday tune. (On Friday I actually had an argument with an uncle who not only wanted to say the medeha, but in the weekend tune, and, worst of all, for last Sunday, ie. the Samaritan woman!) Recent addition or not, it's still an accepted hymn that has been approved by Cantor Ibrahim Ayad (say what you want, he is an authority on the matter, at least in the eyes of HH Pope Shenouda), as well HG Bishop David (as it is present in the presentation software) as well as HG Bishop Youssef (as it is found in the Service of the Deacons book).
Anyways, the day is over. I'm curious as to what the OP ended up doing? I'm not sure what they did at my church in regards to a glorification, but they did say onof em Mariya.