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So I write for this Lutheran ELCA Magazine thingy....
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Peace of the Lord Jesus Christ be upon you.
I am a new member to this forum, and I will attempt as much as I can to post on it, for I find true peace and happiness when I come here. This is a sign from the Almighty that this is a holy website. What makes it holy? The presence of God among you. I write for a Lutheran Magazine, though I am an Egyptian Coptic Orthodox Christian. I am wishing to speak to the heart of each Protestant, regardless of denomination. I wish for them to find the truth just as I have found it so plainly in my eyes. This took me 10 minutes, so please, if there is something wrong with it, please post. I usually insist on quoting the Holy Bible, however I wanted to try something new (Yes, the Orthodox love tradition, as do I, but I wanted to let them see things a bit more clearly) I wanted them to see this story as clearly as possible. When you read this, tell me what you get out of it. Some parts are literal, and some parts are figurative. Everything in this story represents something else. It is, however, based on a true story. Yet the setting and character types are quite different. I want to know if this is understandable, if so I will put it up. If you find this boring, let me know. Any and all feedback is appreciated. This is a very rough draft, though I did the best I could, the first time through. I will proofread as necessary in the near future, yet I MUST sleep for I have school tomorrow. Thank you for your time (in advance) and may the peace of the Lord Jesus Christ be upon you.
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The Place I Work
By Rony
I find myself always in a predicament, in this place I work. I find it very hard to get to do anything done around here, and there is just clutter and mess everywhere. We've got all types of employees here though. I can't believe how anyone works in this office. Everyone has such a cluttered desk, and it is really hard to imagine how anyone gets any work done with the lack of organization. It works for my co-workers however, because for some reason they always keep their desk this way. I guess they must be disorganized in order to be organized.
I try to keep my desk organized, however. it isn't clean, yet it isn't as cluttered as the rest of my co-workers. Don't associate with them? How can I? I work with them every day. They are every where. The boss would always hint at how important it is to keep the desk clutter-free. I mean, its working for me so far...But then I have doubts. I never get to see the boss, he's always in his grand office. All I know is he's there, everyday. He is the one who hired me, right? Why wouldn't he be hiring other people or making sure the business runs smoothly? I'm willing to bet my life he knows everything I do...He installed security cameras to make sure the employees work and do what they are supposed to. Well why is my desk so important? I don't know, I guess I just feel like it is. I'm pretty sure he does too. Why would he hint that we should have a clean desk? I guess I might be going a little bit overboard here, but all I know is what I know. He knows more about me than anyone else. He's got those security cameras. He can fire me too if he feels like it. But really, I could care less. He brought me this job, I think he has the right to take the job from me. I could ask him how he runs his business and all, but why should it matter to me? I've never run a business before and I am pretty sure I can't. He's got like an infinite number of degrees. He can do his job, and he can do it well. I can't, however. I will never be like him. I wonder how his desk looks. It must be spotless. Wait!!! I see the grand office door opening! He's coming! I got a million questions to ask him. He's probably got a million answers, too. What is this? He is announcing that he is going to clean up EVERYONE'S DESK!!! WOW! The guy in the grand office is going to clean up MY desk! What is this? He is now saying that he is going to go on a 3-day trip...He has to get the desk of everyone in the entire building! That is sublime! What is this? He's choosing the stairs over the elevator? But that is A LOT of stairs!!! It's probably about 2 million-3 million flights of stairs...But he HAS to get everyone, regardless what floor they are in. He is doing this three day trip to get everyone in the basement. I'm sure there is a reason why he chose 3 days. It must be very important. But he said he WILL be back, so I should trust him! He's cleaned up my desk hasn't he? Well...This is taking a really long time...I'm beginning to think he couldn't do it...I'm going to focus my energy elsewhere...It was all in VAIN! Those people had it made with the whole disorganization thing...But wait...Can this be true? I see him!!! THERE HE IS!!! HEY, THIS IS THE THIRD DAY!!!! HE MADE IT!!! Shhh...He is speaking to me! "Now I want you to clean up everyone's desk, son. You can do it. Don't worry about how, I'll be with you at all times. Here, take this portable desk. It has the ability to do anything I just did. I honestly love you. Now go and fix clutters!"
[center]+++[/center]
Peace of the Lord Jesus Christ be upon you.
I am a new member to this forum, and I will attempt as much as I can to post on it, for I find true peace and happiness when I come here. This is a sign from the Almighty that this is a holy website. What makes it holy? The presence of God among you. I write for a Lutheran Magazine, though I am an Egyptian Coptic Orthodox Christian. I am wishing to speak to the heart of each Protestant, regardless of denomination. I wish for them to find the truth just as I have found it so plainly in my eyes. This took me 10 minutes, so please, if there is something wrong with it, please post. I usually insist on quoting the Holy Bible, however I wanted to try something new (Yes, the Orthodox love tradition, as do I, but I wanted to let them see things a bit more clearly) I wanted them to see this story as clearly as possible. When you read this, tell me what you get out of it. Some parts are literal, and some parts are figurative. Everything in this story represents something else. It is, however, based on a true story. Yet the setting and character types are quite different. I want to know if this is understandable, if so I will put it up. If you find this boring, let me know. Any and all feedback is appreciated. This is a very rough draft, though I did the best I could, the first time through. I will proofread as necessary in the near future, yet I MUST sleep for I have school tomorrow. Thank you for your time (in advance) and may the peace of the Lord Jesus Christ be upon you.
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The Place I Work
By Rony
I find myself always in a predicament, in this place I work. I find it very hard to get to do anything done around here, and there is just clutter and mess everywhere. We've got all types of employees here though. I can't believe how anyone works in this office. Everyone has such a cluttered desk, and it is really hard to imagine how anyone gets any work done with the lack of organization. It works for my co-workers however, because for some reason they always keep their desk this way. I guess they must be disorganized in order to be organized.
I try to keep my desk organized, however. it isn't clean, yet it isn't as cluttered as the rest of my co-workers. Don't associate with them? How can I? I work with them every day. They are every where. The boss would always hint at how important it is to keep the desk clutter-free. I mean, its working for me so far...But then I have doubts. I never get to see the boss, he's always in his grand office. All I know is he's there, everyday. He is the one who hired me, right? Why wouldn't he be hiring other people or making sure the business runs smoothly? I'm willing to bet my life he knows everything I do...He installed security cameras to make sure the employees work and do what they are supposed to. Well why is my desk so important? I don't know, I guess I just feel like it is. I'm pretty sure he does too. Why would he hint that we should have a clean desk? I guess I might be going a little bit overboard here, but all I know is what I know. He knows more about me than anyone else. He's got those security cameras. He can fire me too if he feels like it. But really, I could care less. He brought me this job, I think he has the right to take the job from me. I could ask him how he runs his business and all, but why should it matter to me? I've never run a business before and I am pretty sure I can't. He's got like an infinite number of degrees. He can do his job, and he can do it well. I can't, however. I will never be like him. I wonder how his desk looks. It must be spotless. Wait!!! I see the grand office door opening! He's coming! I got a million questions to ask him. He's probably got a million answers, too. What is this? He is announcing that he is going to clean up EVERYONE'S DESK!!! WOW! The guy in the grand office is going to clean up MY desk! What is this? He is now saying that he is going to go on a 3-day trip...He has to get the desk of everyone in the entire building! That is sublime! What is this? He's choosing the stairs over the elevator? But that is A LOT of stairs!!! It's probably about 2 million-3 million flights of stairs...But he HAS to get everyone, regardless what floor they are in. He is doing this three day trip to get everyone in the basement. I'm sure there is a reason why he chose 3 days. It must be very important. But he said he WILL be back, so I should trust him! He's cleaned up my desk hasn't he? Well...This is taking a really long time...I'm beginning to think he couldn't do it...I'm going to focus my energy elsewhere...It was all in VAIN! Those people had it made with the whole disorganization thing...But wait...Can this be true? I see him!!! THERE HE IS!!! HEY, THIS IS THE THIRD DAY!!!! HE MADE IT!!! Shhh...He is speaking to me! "Now I want you to clean up everyone's desk, son. You can do it. Don't worry about how, I'll be with you at all times. Here, take this portable desk. It has the ability to do anything I just did. I honestly love you. Now go and fix clutters!"
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Comments
Very interesting indeed. I think its pretty straightforward - except for a couple of things: a) His choosing the stairs over the elevator. If i have interpreted this metaphor correctly, than i question the theological soundness of the words used. b) I dont exactly understand what is meant by the final words spoken by the "Boss" to the "employee", could you please explain that?
Peace
aghape,
chris
It makes perfect sense .. Im surprised I get it ..
You did a great job .. keep writing .. and keep posting :-D
**Remember me in your prayers**
Maria
Yes I believe the stairway is the road of suffering - I would like to know what the elevator represents, what he means by the fact the boss "chose" the stairs. For as we know, the suffering and death of Christ was the only way mankind could be saved - there was no easy way out.
Because God is unlimited, He could have given us salvation just by His word. He did not need to come down to die on our behalf. The elevator in this sense, if I am not mistaken, is the choice God could have made: to save us by a word word from His mouth. However He perferred to come and incarnate from the Holy Spirit and of St. Mary and eventally die what was then known as the most horrible death. He did all of this to show us that He endured what we see as difficult in order to show us that He loves us and will never forsake us no matter the cost.
In summary, The stairway is the way of suffering while the elevator is just giving us salvation by a word from His mouth because it is easier for Him.
I hope this explains it.
God Bless
Avvaantoni
As such, it is impossible that God take the "elevator", the "stairway" was the only way mankind could be saved such that God's infinite mercy, justice, and holiness, could be reconciled.
[quote author=Iqbal link=board=1;threadid=1160;start=0#msg19683 date=1107311750]
God is unlimited, but this does not negate the fact He is limited to His own being i.e. He can only act according to His character, and thus He cannot contradict Himself or His attributes.
If I am interpreting this clearly, you are stating that God is somewhat limited. But, as I understand, God is unlimited and there is not a factor of Him that is finite (which will then mean He is limited). I am not trying to argue or anything, but I would like to understand what you are trying to say a bit more clearly.
Please pray for my weak soul
Avvaantoni
For example, God cannot sin. Does this limit God? No it does not, the fact God cannot sin, is not due to some external factor, but rather because of the fact He is defined by infinite Holiness - thus sin is impossible for Him.
God's being restricted to comply with His own being and character, i.e. His own infinite attributes does not negate the fact He is unlimited. If God could not do something as a result of something external to His own being, than we could argue that God is limited.
For example, God cannot sin. Does this limit God? No it does not, the fact God cannot sin, is not due to some external factor, but rather because of the fact He is defined by infinite Holiness - thus sin is impossible for Him.
If we look at evil; evil is not an attribute, it is the absence of another attribute (which is good). Likewise with sin, it is the absence of the Good. Meaning that by sinning, one only gets further from God.
If one sets rules, he is obliged to follow these rules, not because he is forced to, but because this is what he believes in. The same with God, He set these laws because this is what He sees as "good" and therefore will not disobey them and sin. Now this does not limit Him as you said, but I still do not understand what you are trying to say.
Forgive me for my ignorance
Avvaantoni
So in conclusion, God cannot sin - H ecannot transgress His own commands, and God cannot simply save us by word, as you suggested, for His infinite justice demands that the wages of sin is death. Either we all fall, or Christ falls in our place i.e. substitutionary atonement - therefore there is no "elevator". Thats my point.
Yours in Christ
Avvaantoni
Peace of the Lord Jesus Christ be upon you.
Due to the overwhelming responses, I figured it be best for me to explain everything as well as I can in my story...This is so you guys understand my mindset. If it is wrong, I am willing to change it. For the Orthodox Faith is based on straight teaching. I will use parantheses to explain each sentence.
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The Place I Work
By Rony
I find myself always in a predicament, in this place I work (Tribulations always arise in this world). I find it very hard to get to do anything done around here, and there is just clutter and mess everywhere (The world we live in is in havoc). We've got all types of employees here though (Many different religions, cultures, etc.). I can't believe how anyone works in this office (My way is the right way, I just can't explain it).Everyone has such a cluttered desk, and it is really hard to imagine how anyone gets any work done with the lack of organization (The desk represents the soul, no one wishes to realize what they are doing is wrong, and if they realize what they are doing is wrong, they don't even fix it correctly). It works for my co-workers however, because for some reason they always keep their desk this way (The narrator is doubting how he lives his life compared to theirs, he wishes to relate because they seem to have so much fun). I guess they must be disorganized in order to be organized (This is what the narrator thinks at this point, but God works not through complication or trickery, he is straightforward and to the point).
I try to keep my desk organized, however (Emphasis on the word TRY here, because my desk is just as cluttered as the other co-workers, in the eyes of God). It isn't clean, yet it isn't as cluttered as the rest of my co-workers (So here the narrator discerns that his way is the right way, he just can't figure out why he does what he does). Don't associate with them (The Holy Spirit speaks)? How can I (The devil interjects)? I work with them every day (I live in this world EVERY DAY). They are every where (I see them EVERY DAY). The boss would always hint at how important it is to keep the desk clutter-free (The narrator thinks at this point that there has to be a reason why I am rejecting the devil so much). I mean, its working for me so far...But then I have doubts (I do the best I can, but I just doubt myself at times). I never get to see the boss, he's always in his grand office (The narrator THINKS he can neither see nor hear God). All I know is he's there, everyday (The narrator at this point realizes the difference between him and his co-workers, he has FAITH; At this point I am trying to get across that Faith is what keeps people alive day and night). He is the one who hired me, right (God is the one who brought us into the world)? Why wouldn't he be hiring other people or making sure the business runs smoothly (God knows us and he knows who is to be born or to die and knows why he brings people into this world, the "making sure the business runs smoothly" is to show that GOD is in control, no one else)? I'm willing to bet my life he knows everything I do...He installed security cameras to make sure the employees work and do what they are supposed to (God sees us and what we do, he knows us and how we feel, he knows EVERYTHING, I just couldn't think of anything that a boss in a company would put in order to "make sure everything runs smoothly"). Well why is my desk so important (He is doubting again)? I don't know, I guess I just feel like it is (He has FAITH to the utmost degree). I'm pretty sure he does too (He KNOWS God is in control). Why would he hint that we should have a clean desk (Why should God so plainly show us through his Holy Word how important our soul is)? I guess I might be going a little bit overboard here, but all I know is what I know (He is comparing his mindset to the people around him, but he knows he has something different going on than them). He knows more about me than anyone else (He still has doubt but has extreme faith, he goes back and forth). He's got those security cameras (God is almighty, he sees and hears and knows everything). He can fire me too if he feels like it (He can kill me if he wanted to, HE CAN DO IT). But really, I could care less (I have FAITH). He brought me this job, I think he has the right to take the job from me (The narrator knows that "He gave me a task, I must do it as a Christian becaose of my faith and I cannot explain it."). I could ask him how he runs his business and all, but why should it matter to me (The Creation, was it really as literal as it is? The Devil is tempting him, but he knows that he is a servant, and not a master)? I've never run a business before and I am pretty sure I can't (I am not God, so why should I assume to know about the Universe more than him? I should just know that he created it and leave it at that. He knows HOW he created it, its probably to complex for me to understand). He's got like an infinite number of degrees (He is GOD). He can do his job, and he can do it well (Faith). I can't, however (I am a SINNER). I will never be like him (I can't compare to God). I wonder how his desk looks (Jesus?). It must be spotless (It has to be, he is God in the Flesh). Wait!!! I see the grand office door opening! He's coming! I got a million questions to ask him. He's probably got a million answers, too. What is this? He is announcing that he is going to clean up EVERYONE'S DESK!!! WOW! The guy in the grand office is going to clean up MY desk! What is this? He is now saying that he is going to go on a 3-day trip...He has to get the desk of everyone in the entire building! That is sublime! What is this? He's choosing the stairs over the elevator (He is taking the hardest path possible, instead of taking the easy way out as all us humans ever do)? But that is A LOT of stairs (The burden is TOO MUCH for this SINLESS MAN)!!! It's probably about 2 million-3 million flights of stairs (A MILLION SOULS HE HAS TO SAVE!!!! maybe I should use the desks instead of stairs? If so, how? Im confused, heh)...But he HAS to get everyone, regardless what floor they are in (He is going to take the hardest path, but there is a reason for this). He is doing this three day trip to get everyone in the basement (He has to grab everyone in hell and bring them up to heaven). I'm sure there is a reason why he chose 3 days (Jonah!!!). It must be very important (JONAH!!! lol). But he said he WILL be back, so I should trust him (The Holy Spirit telling the narrator to trust him)! He's cleaned up my desk hasn't he (He died for my sins, right?)? Well...This is taking a really long time (He told us it would be 3 days, but I'm scared, he hasn't showed up)...I'm beginning to think he couldn't do it (The disciples doubted Jesus these three days)...I'm going to focus my energy elsewhere (The disciples wanted to do what everyone else was doing at the time, they DOUBTED Jesus' return!)...It was all in VAIN (They took the hard path for nothing, he TRICKED THEM so it seems!)! Those people had it made with the whole disorganization thing (I had it right the FIRST time, I'd rather be complicated than SIMPLE! The complete opposite of what God wanted me to be! The narrator is HEAVILY doubting the boss, so its like when we doubt God regardless of all the miracles that happen in our life)...But wait...Can this be true (He notices something)? I see him (With his own eyes, at the very least)!!! THERE HE IS (I'm not dreaming this, I really do see him in front of me)!!! HEY, THIS IS THE THIRD DAY (He said he'd be back didn't he?!!!! HE MADE IT (Why did I doubt him?)!!! Shhh...He is speaking to me! "Now I want you to clean up everyone's desk, son. You can do it. Don't worry about how, I'll be with you at all times. Here, take this portable desk. It has the ability to do anything I just did. I honestly love you. Now go and fix clutters!" (This quote is in respect to what Jesus has done with the disciples!)
Maybe I should write this story and then explain it the next month, keep them anticipated and contemplating the story a little bit further?
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Maria
Maria
i think you did a great job there.
you really dulled it down and related it to the real world...
i love the desrciption you give of the 'big boss' how he's always in his office but watching with cameras and such. and how he's got the right to take the job from you, and you shouldnt ask him questions because he knows what he's doing and such.
i kno my repsonse is a lil delayed, but good job on that!
keep writing, it seems like God's given you somthing there :)
take care and God bless
God could not just have forgiven us arbitrarily, or simply forgotten about the fallen nature and sins of mankind - this would be irrational and the sacrafice would make no sense.
He had to die, to take upon the punishment that was due to us i.e. substitutionary atonement, He had to die to sacraficially to atone for our sins. The Cross was also a necessary "ingredient" to theosis because Christ had to "deify" every aspect of our humanity, which includes death.