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Is the COC doing enough missionary work?
I have been in a few discussions lately with people who criticize (for lack of a better word) our church for not doing enough missionary work.
I am interested in your thoughts. Do you think that is true? Are the Protestants and others doing more than us? Should we be leading the effort in this area?
I am interested in your thoughts. Do you think that is true? Are the Protestants and others doing more than us? Should we be leading the effort in this area?
Comments
I have been in a few discussions lately with people who criticize (for lack of a better word) our church for not doing enough missionary work.
I am interested in your thoughts. Do you think that is true? Are the Protestants and others doing more than us? Should we be leading the effort in this area?
Before getting into the details, the question to answer is what are the parameters the critics used to come to that conclusion?
The first missionary work is in our daily lives: Do we act like Christians to attract others to Orthodox Christianity?
Of course, who can argue against that?
But what about those who do not know about Christianity, in other nations? Shall we watch as others proselytize? What about those within the our own country? My own church is next to Sikhs and not once has a priest tried to reason with them, not once has a member of the congregation invited them to church (myself included); on the contrary, we have "Peace picnics" in the park and everyone smiles at our differences. . .
I think sometimes we are afraid that letting too many "different" people in might corrupt what we have and unfortunately this leads to us not spreading the Gospel as much as we should.
http://evangelismcopticorthodox.org/evangelismgroups.html
for example, and also there is evangelism we can't talk about because it's not 'allowed' in some countries.
but we all need to speak to our friends and neighbours.
not many people are given the gift to travel across many nations and win the hearts of thousands, but we are all called by God to make friends ('love your neighbour') and to 'preach the word in season and out of season'.
so when u get close to your friends and you find out what food they like, what film they watched, etc. this is the time to share with them the most important realationship in your life - your relationship with God.
if anyone else can give examples of this kind of 'evangelism' they have done or seen done in the orthodox church, that would be great.
eg. our church had an open day for the neighbours and about 20 people came and heard about God's love for them and then had tea and cake. one of the neighbours popped in on her way past one day to find out more.
As you probably already know, I don’t believe the Coptic Church should try to peddle its other admirable traditional Orthodox attributes until it has faced, discussed, and resolved all of the confusions and errors of its new, rapidly growing, secretive, crucial demonic/ heterodox feminism/ freudianism apostacy that is now provoking and bolstering deceptive and fraudulent marriages and their young fathers and children victims as innocent, helpless life long mercenary fodder for the greedy divorce and freudian family counselling industries.
Until this concealed, unpublished family threatening and destroying heterodox apostacy is thoroughly and publicly acknowledged by all Coptic clergy and in all Coptic publications, to all Coptic and inquiring families; full disclosure of the vital circumstances of its currently destroyed families and of all of its potential family destroying consequences should be clearly made to all relevant parties before any new Coptic marriages are performed and before any outside new members are initiated.
Further in this regard, I am delighted to share a seemingly holy relevant recent article from ocanews.org by a seemingly God speaking Canadian OCA priest, Fr. Lawrence Farley, written in a literary style that I can, plainly, only envy. Fr. Farley seems to diplomatically indicate that our rapidly growing (“obedience in resistance”) Coptic feminism and divorce experiences seem to be on track with the earlier, more mature Anglican/ Protestant feminism, and is now a facet of the new, similar, general, pan-orthodox feminism heresy. I have ranted extensively on this forum on my experiences with the similar demonic Catholic feminism/ freudianism/ divorce heresy. The cornerstone of demonic ecumenism’s dream is now labelled. ORTHODOX FEMINISM. Bad news, you can’t convert out of it. What is next? Jesus said, "If you love Me, you will obey My commandments." Jn.14:15.
http://www.ocanews.org/news/Farley7.26.11.html
7.27.11
Labelling the Debate
by Fr. Lawrence Farley, Canada
All of my generation will remember the lines from A Charlie Brown Christmas when Charlie Brown, depressed over the coming of Christmas, sits down at Lucy’s desk (the sign overhead announcing “The Doctor Is Real In”) and says, “I am in sad shape. I know I should be happy, but I’m not.” Lucy responds, “The mere fact that you realize you need help indicates that you are not too far gone. If we can find out what you’re afraid of, we can label it.”
Labelling is not always helpful. Sometimes labels are too simplistically applied, and shut down real thought and dialogue. But sometimes labelling is crucial—such as when dealing with a disease. Then it is called “diagnosis”. I submit that our current debates in the Church about sexuality indicate that something is wrong with us, and if we can find out what that is, we can label it. The intensity of debate, conducted as it is between people of equal intelligence and goodwill, about something as basic as human sexuality, and about something which the Scriptures and the Fathers and the traditions of our Church have been clear and uncontroversial for about two millenia, clearly reveal that something is wrong. The debate is not like other debates in the Church in the past. This debate is a symptom.
In the fourth century, there was something wrong with the Church in the form of Arianism. That is, there was confusion in the minds of many about the divinity of Christ. Beginning in the twentieth century, there is confusion in the minds of many about the humanity of Man—and if objection is taken to the use of the inclusive term “Man”, this only reveals how deep the confusion actually goes. The heresies of Arianism about the nature of Christ were bad enough, since they effected what it means to be a Christian. The heresies about human sexuality are even worse, because they effect what it means to be a human being, whether Christian or not.
These distortions about gender roles are the main front and ideological battleground of the perennial contest between the Church and the World (or the secular zeitgeist, the spirit of the times). A secular spirit always exists in this age, challenging the Church. The nature of the challenge changes with the times. In our time, the challenge of secularism seems concentrated in the area of human sexuality, of what it means to be an authentic man or woman, husband or wife. Thus, as the traditional understanding erodes in our culture, divorce rates go up, the number of common law unions go up, there is increasing acceptance of casual sex, and of prostitution (now euphemised as “the sex trade”, as if schools offered training and certificates), violence against women increases, and the use of pornography is increasingly normalized. One part of this complicated, varied, often contradictory, and systemic break-down of the traditional understanding of sexuality and sexual roles interacts with our culture under the banner of Feminism.
There is, of course, much that is laudable in Feminism, for Feminism is a very large tent, and contains under its roof a large variety of movements and demands—some political, some theological. Certain of its demands, such as the right of women to equal pay for equal work, should be granted by all concerned, since they are matters of simple justice. But the theological feminism which effectively is at war with traditional gender roles is another matter.
This theological feminism asserts that because both men and women equally share the image of God and because this common humanity which unites them is more fundamental than the gender differences which distinguish them, then these gender differences have no theological significance. I grant the premise (that both genders equally share the divine image, and that this is the most fundamental fact about human existence), but not the conclusion (that therefore gender differences have no theological significance). The conclusion simply does not follow from the premise.
In the 1970s, this conclusion, a part of the reigning zeitgeist, was behind the drive to ordain women to Holy Orders in the Anglican/ Episcopal Church. First it was declared that deaconesses were deacons, then women were ordained as deacons, then as priests, then as bishops. One verse of Scripture (Gal 3:28, “in Christ there is no male and female”) was wrenched from its original context and made to do service for a question foreign to that context—a question, moreover, which the author of the verse had already dealt with elsewhere in a contrary way. Proponents of women’s ordination announced that Jesus was far too revolutionary, daring and egalitarian to sanction something as repressive and patriarchal as an all-male leadership, and that the authentic Paul (the author of Gal. 3:28) approved of female church leaders too. The verses in Paul about women and men in his First Epistle to the Corinthians were by-passed, re-interpreted or dismissed as interpolations. The explicit denial of the possibility of women as teaching leaders in 1 Timothy was similarly dismissed as non-Pauline (as if that somehow negated its authority as part of the New Testament canon). The Fathers also were dismissed as too patriarchal, and anyhow, attention was called to how they said that both men and women equally shared the divine image. So there.
As someone who observed the entire process unfolding in the Anglican Church at that time, I find it instructive to observe how the cause of women’s ordination progressed. First, no bold assertions were made about Paul being crudely wrong. Theologians in seminaries, widening their eyes with as much innocence as they could muster, simply asked questions, like “Can we really regard the obviously non-Pauline sentiments in 1 Timothy 2 as binding for all places and for all times?” (They were just asking the question. The issue was, of course, very complicated, as everyone but fundamentalists recognized.) Debates were held, letters written by people on both sides of the debate to church newspapers. (No one blogged back then.) People warned of disaster, and were in turn dismissed as alarmist and too fearful. Motions in synods were made. Counter-motions were made. People lobbied. It looked as if something as basic to Church life as Holy Orders was to turn on attendance numbers at church conferences. Then the step was taken of ordaining women deacons. Relax everyone: not priests, just deacons. Then, since the Church obviously had no problem with women deacons, why not women priests? Relax everyone: just priests, not bishops. And there will be a Conscience Clause for dissenters, so no one need be afraid or alarmed. Then, since the Church obviously had no problem with women priests, why not women bishops? By then, the Conscience Clause turned out to apply only to the dinosaurs already ordained, and hopefully approaching retirement. New recruits must abide by the new orthodoxy. Appeals to love, compassion and broad-mindedness were made to the rank and file, and those still rejecting the concept of women’s ordination were denounced as misogynist and ridiculed or pitied in turn. Anyone remaining in the Anglican Church of Canada now and arguing that women should not be priests enjoys all the credibility among them as that enjoyed in society by Holocaust-deniers and flat-earthers.
To repeat: all this followed from the conclusion, “Gender has no theological significance because what matters is one’s humanity, not one’s gender”, so that the two-millenia old gender roles no longer applied. The next phase in the Anglican Church was the debate about same-sex marriage. By this time, I had already figured out where the real Church was, and had become Orthodox. But observing this new process gave me a chilling sense of deja-vu. Those in the Anglican Church, arguing for the legitimacy of same-sex marriage and of homosexual relationships in general, by then had a certain logic on their side, as well as a certain momentum. And the logic of women’s ordination seemed to be irresistible: if gender didn’t matter, then it didn’t matter. It was no use saying that men and women were different enough so that homosexual marriage was impossible for Christians. In deciding to ordain women as clergy, the church had already decided men and women were to all practical intents the same. People still appealed to St. Paul in defence of the traditional understanding of sexuality, but St. Paul had long since been dismissed from theological thinking. Similarly with any appeal to history or tradition. The war promoting same-sex marriage was won without firing any real shots.
What is instructive to me is that we see the same scenario being played again in North American Orthodoxy. Once again, no one is boldly saying that St. Paul can go hang. The worst that is said about him is that he did not have the benefit of reading our modern studies proving that homosexuality is inborn and God-given. People are not openly denying the two-millenia old Faith, they are just asking questions, all the time dismissing their opponents who warn of disaster as alarmist and too fearful. Plus ca change...(sp ?)
We can, if we choose, deny the parallel with the fourth century, refuse to acknowledge that there is something wrong with us, and refuse to label it as heresy. We can, if we choose, balk at the painful and messy work of dealing with heresy, and insist that these are matters for legitimate debate. We will then continue proceeding down the path blazed for us by the Anglicans.
I think that it is time to recognize that debate is not legitimate if it is debate over things long uncontroversial in Scripture and Tradition. It is time to recognize that the present debate over gender in our Church is a symptom that we are dealing with an underlying heresy. It is not enough, of course, simply to cut off debate and to tell people to shut up and sit down. Thoughtful answers need to be provided—as they were provided to Arians in the fourth century. There is a difference between debating and answering. We debate to arrive at the truth. We answer when we know what that truth is.
The historic Church has long known what the truth is about human sexuality. It is time that these answers be authoritatively given.
--Archpriest Lawrence R. Farley
Why does it always come back to gender roles for you?!
One thing I have noticed (because I only get about half a dozen TV channels) is that there is an awful lot of Islamic content on the local public access channel. At least 5 times now I have been hoping for some kind of interesting documentary only to turn to channel 27 and hear Islamic recitations, generally accompanied by paintings or pictures of the universe or nature scenes of rivers and such. To me, it is kind of like watching a jarring and unpleasant version of a screensaver, but I could see how a lost soul might find something otherworldly and beautiful in it. Usually it is in Arabic, but sometimes it is in English, showing that the Muslims also intend to proselytize the locals (though there is nothing in Spanish or Navajo yet, that I've seen).
Anyway, I don't see why we Christians could not do something similar, but better. The Muslims, while certainly more than us in terms of pure numbers (there are only 6 families here, plus a few individuals like me), are not so many more, and I have a hard time believing that such productions cost very much money. In our case here in Albuquerque, I think it is more a matter of coordination (i.e., our priests fly in every two weeks from Arizona, and leave directly to the airport after the Agape meal, so there would be a lot of difficulty in setting such a thing up), but I will still bring it up to Fr. Marcus when I see him on Saturday. There really is no reason to not have a visible presence in whatever place you are, especially if you are blessed like we are to live in the West where we can freely evangelize people.
It doesn't, always. But, the current Coptic Church's family destroying, modern demonic feminism/ freudianism/ divorce heresy shouldn't be silently/secretly passed on, as apostolic orthodoxy, to uninformed Copts or to sincere inquirers. Who would seek or support a church, or any community whose philosophy/theology threatens the integrity of their family, the spiritual and civil peace and career prospects of its father head, and the lifetime spiritual and social formation of its innocent, beloved minor and adult children? Any so-called U.S. christian church threatens these same modern risks. The Holy Bible and our Holy Orthodox Fathers prescribe many gender and family protections and counsels that the current Coptic Church has surreptitiously proscribed and replaced with "modern" long and often failed mercenary freudian experiments.
[quote author=Amdah link=topic=12378.msg145021#msg145021 date=1316667705]
No offense intended but people tend to hide behind big words and such when they really have nothing to say...
Ain't that the truth.
[quote author=Amdah link=topic=12378.msg145021#msg145021 date=1316667705]Anyway, isn't there a mission in bolivia??
Yes there is.
Coptic Church in Bolivia
Coptic Orthodox Church in South America
Of course, not without full disclosure of the present Coptic feminist/freudian based abandonment of and disbelief in the traditional orthodox understanding and application of the scriptural gender and family commandments as passed down to us by our Holy Orthodox Fathers. Including, full disclosure of the actual present reinterpretation of and disbelief in the plain scripture and patristic based meaning of the entire authentic traditional Coptic marriage liturgy.
I think that most young Copts and family aged inquirers seek a church and community that they can depend upon to always support, nurture and protect the spiritual and civil integrity, peace and security of their present and future family. No church "package" should be sold deceptively like a used car or a Wall Street "security," or a glitzy modern American "megachurch." Full disclosure will not deceive inquirers seeking another modern thinking, anti-patriarchal, feminism friendly, "non-judgmental," mushy pastoral freudianism based church. They will probably be leaving soon for a newer "experience" , anyway.
Unworthy1,
Of course, not without full disclosure of the present Coptic feminist/freudian based abandonment of and disbelief in the traditional orthodox understanding and application of the scriptural gender and family commandments as passed down to us by our Holy Orthodox Fathers. Including, full disclosure of the actual present reinterpretation of and disbelief in the plain scripture and patristic based meaning of the entire authentic traditional Coptic marriage liturgy.
I think that most young Copts and family aged inquirers seek a church and community that they can depend upon to always support, nurture and protect the spiritual and civil integrity, peace and security of their present and future family. No church "package" should be sold deceptively like a used car or a Wall Street "security," or a glitzy modern American "megachurch." Full disclosure will not deceive inquirers seeking another modern thinking, anti-patriarchal, feminism friendly, "non-judgmental," mushy pastoral freudianism based church. They will probably be leaving soon for a newer "experience" , anyway.
Hi Brother,
The articles which you are declaring as a theological deviation were discussed in the ecumenical dialogues between the Eastern and Oriental Orthodox families; there is a mutual agreement of Orthodoxy and acknowledgement of marriages signed in the Alexandrian dioceses of the Coptic and Greek Orthodox Church of Alexandria.
I recall that there was only one point of disagreement and it was on the Coptic side with respect to the Easterners and not the other way around but it was accepted on the grounds that it is not universal practice.
The article which you keep posting as an anti-coptic reference is on an unofficial site about financial accountability in the OCA, it has nothing to do with the Coptic Church.
Please explain in detain what this supposed heresy is and how we're committing it and why it has never been seen as an issue during Oriental/Eastern dialogue.
Please pray for me,
LiD
I have no idea what the pilgrim is saying.
I'm going to reserve judgement until we know whether or not he knows what hes talking about.
[quote author=LoveisDivine link=topic=12378.msg145109#msg145109 date=1316819190]
[quote author=ilovesaintmark link=topic=12378.msg145081#msg145081 date=1316782455]
I have no idea what the pilgrim is saying.
I'm going to reserve judgement until we know whether or not he knows what hes talking about.
Anyone want to take a stab as to what they think my money is on?
+ Irini nem ehmot,
[quote author=LoveisDivine link=topic=12378.msg145109#msg145109 date=1316819190]
[quote author=ilovesaintmark link=topic=12378.msg145081#msg145081 date=1316782455]
I have no idea what the pilgrim is saying.
I'm going to reserve judgement until we know whether or not he knows what hes talking about.
Anyone want to take a stab as to what they think my money is on?
I detect a bit of a Freudian-Feministic tone in that post - are you sure you're not with him? ;)
[quote author=LoveisDivine link=topic=12378.msg145118#msg145118 date=1316853705]
[quote author=Κηφᾶς link=topic=12378.msg145110#msg145110 date=1316828235]
+ Irini nem ehmot,
[quote author=LoveisDivine link=topic=12378.msg145109#msg145109 date=1316819190]
[quote author=ilovesaintmark link=topic=12378.msg145081#msg145081 date=1316782455]
I have no idea what the pilgrim is saying.
I'm going to reserve judgement until we know whether or not he knows what hes talking about.
Anyone want to take a stab as to what they think my money is on?
I detect a bit of a Freudian-Feministic tone in that post - are you sure you're not with him? ;)
ZOUNDS! My cover has been blown.
I honestly have no idea what you are talking about ..
Will you please describe your grudge with the Coptic Church that let you believe "she is deceptively selling her faith"?
I have no idea what the pilgrim is saying.
ilovesaintmark,
I wish I could use more patience and had more ability to write clearly about these seemingly important, complex issues. Hopefully, practice makes perfect. How long? I am posting responses to LoveisDivine and imikhail, Hopefully these are clearer.
irishpilgrim,
I honestly have no idea what you are talking about ..
Will you please describe your grudge with the Coptic Church that let you believe "she is deceptively selling her faith"?
imikhail,
I’m sorry that I haven’t been clear to you. I understand that my writing in this matter is heartfelt, but sometimes undisciplined.
My concern is that the Coptic Church leadership, apparently recently (within the last ~ 40 years, H. H. Pope Shenouda’s reign), in response to the heretical feminist (ecumenical) insults of the WCC leaders and/or to screeching pressure from “modern” raging and scheming Coptic feminists’ demands has abandoned and effectively forbidden study and teaching of the traditional patriarchal Orthodox scriptural and patristic based principles of God’s eternal family, marriage and gender commandments. These raging and scheming mature Coptic feminists have been given a sort of official status in many large Coptic parishes (and apparently in the Coptic Synod), where they are unopposed in preventing and perverting the teaching of patriarchal family principles and in fomenting and supporting young wife rebellion and divorce in struggling, immature Coptic marriages (usually with toddler and elementary aged children, [in order to extort father punishing child custody authority and maximum child support payments]).
The U. S. Coptic leadership’s response to the challenging unpleasant burdens of the resultant increasing young Coptic family divorce rate has been to institute an unscriptural, secular Catholic/ Protestant modeled, experimental network of mercenary, arbitrarily trained and supervised, unaccountable (usually feminism inclined controlling women) freudian “assistant pastors” and “experts” to exert hegelian dialectal intimidation on the confused victim husband to coerce him to submit to his rebellious wife and attempt to pay the “family” counselling fees and passively (lovingly) support the new heretical “two home” divorced family. Of course, all of these intimidating insults are imposed on the startled husband family leader, without daring to “shame” the divorcing “wife” by reminding her of her God bound duty and promise to honor and obey her over-powered, dazed and traumatized husband. Of course, Abouna wouldn’t belittle her feminist sensitivity (and friends) by telling her what the Orthodox theological words; patriarchal, head, duty, promise, honor, submit, obey, everything and repentence mean.
No reasonable description of this heterodox, anti-patriarchal, anti-family scheme is formally published in English, nor openly discussed by any Coptic bishop or priest that I have asked for clarification of my concerned observations. Yet, these same Coptic leaders speak and publish the general illusion that they practice the full faith of the traditional Apostolic Orthodox Church of Christ. Once deceptively married and with children in this secret Coptic heretical feminist trap, without full disclosure of the unscriptural feminist opposition to his family leadership (in the very same parish and church as his, now unsupported [heretical], marriage), the deceived husband victim, and his innocent children, lose all family authority and rights in the U.S. civil divorce courts, which routinely "award" heretical child custody authority to their rebellious “wife/mother.”
My children and I experienced the same feminist heresy in the Catholic Church and, as Fr. Farley has generally alluded, my now adult children, their relationships, their marriages, and their children now suffer, to varying degrees, from the spiritual and social confusions and traumas that they received from their childhood family divorce and insecurity. They do not call their parents, nor the Catholic Church blessed (I can’t detect any spark of Christian faith in any of them). I am committed to opposing this demonic heresy where ever I can find it. I have been blessed to have found it in all (except probably in the ROCOR) western Eastern Orthodox jurisdictions I have experienced and in the Coptic Church. The sad, indignant divorced fathers and children in these churches witness this heresy in every church where it resides in favor. Demonic women/ homosexual priesthood is ready to tear (or shout) down their doors.
Thanks for asking. Please pray for me, my children and their children.
I have had to split my responses into two posts. The entire responses contained too many characters for one post. I think the division is reasonable for you to follow, if you can stay awake that long. I have tried for two days to use the editing features to embolden or color limited statements for emphasis. No luck, or skill. Instead, I have placed BBB at the beginning and end of statements I want to emphasize. Sorry.
I apoplogize that I’ve not been able to work on or post responses to your replies to my related posts on the very long “homosexuality “ discussion (your Reply #146 on http://tasbeha.org/content/community/index.php/topic,12337.135.html) and your Reply #14 in this discussion. I had begun a reply to your #146, but when I was able to get back to work on it, the discussion had increased by several pages and subtopics and had progressed to Reply #199. Thankfully, this discussion is easier to rejoin.
Before I begin responding to LiD, I should parenthetically respond to ilovesaintmark’s (Replies #140, 141, 144, 145), I think that if you have further interest and time to carefully read my introduction and Fr. Farley’s article, you will find that we both agree with most of your beliefs and sentiments. Thank you for your concern, I apologize that my posts and Fr. Farley’s article are not straight forward and clear. My writing is undisciplined and Fr. Farley covered a lot of related issues. In my ineptness, I would call his style rhetorical and somewhat indirect.
Now I’ll try to respond to LiD’s replies in order, beginning with #146.
Quote from: LoveisDivine on September 22, 2011, 08:27:55 PM
Quote from: irishpilgrim on September 21, 2011, 06:53:22 PM
I agree with the real, concerned Orthodox Copts’ replys such as the following: Stavroforos Nos. 13, 16, 19, 30; imikhail Nos. 22, 27, 31, 34; JG No. 18; Aegyptian No. 40; ophadece No. 45; and those who agree with this traditional orthodox theology and philosophy.
I disagree with Unworthy1’s reply No. 35. To welcome these obviously weak, unrepenitant youth sinners is to invite them to corrupt the morals of similarly weak, innocent or struggling youth. Do not be deceived: Bad company corrupts good morals. 1Cor.15:33.
I’d like to share the following very enlightening recent relevant article from ocanews.org by the courageous Canadian OCA Orthodox priest, Fr. Lawrence Farley; which directly addresses the Coptic Churches' current crucial modern heresies of feminism(/freudianism) and divorce; and warns of their naturally consequential heretical bedfellow, homosexuality.
http://www.ocanews.org/news/Farley7.26.11.html
I think you're reading into the article more than is actually there, he is encouraging debate to develop a more cohesive and Christian answer to the problem.
The article is neither specifically written as any sort of rebuttal to the Coptic Church or against the sin of homosexuality here is another article which he has written on this subject.
You keep bring this point up in vague illusions with little or no detail, exactly what are these supposed sins which the Coptic Church is doing and how is it committing them?
Thanks and please pray for me.
LiD
I urge you to carefully review the following portions of Fr. Farley’s article.
Quote from “Labelling the Debate” by Fr. Lawrence Farley, Cited by irishpilgrim on September 21, 2011. 06:53:22 PM
These distortions about gender roles are the main front and ideological battleground of the perennial contest between the Church and the World (or the secular zeitgeist, the spirit of the times). A secular spirit always exists in this age, challenging the Church. The nature of the challenge changes with the times. In our time, the challenge of secularism seems concentrated in the area of human sexuality, of what it means to be an authentic man or woman, husband or wife. Thus, as the traditional understanding erodes in our culture, divorce rates go up, the number of common law unions go up, there is increasing acceptance of casual sex, and of prostitution (now euphemised as “the sex trade”, as if schools offered training and certificates), violence against women increases, and the use of pornography is increasingly normalized. BBBOne part of this complicated, varied, often contradictory, and systemic break-down of the traditional understanding of sexuality and sexual roles interacts with our culture under the banner of Feminism.BBB
There is, of course, much that is laudable in Feminism, for Feminism is a very large tent, and contains under its roof a large variety of movements and demands—some political, BBBsome theologicalBBB. Certain of its demands, such as the right of women to equal pay for equal work, should be granted by all concerned, since they are matters of simple justice. BBBBut the theological feminism which effectively is at war with traditional gender roles is another matter.BBB
This theological feminism asserts that because both men and women equally share the image of God and because this common humanity which unites them is more fundamental than the gender differences which distinguish them, BBBthen these gender differences have no theological significanceBBB. I grant the premise (that both genders equally share the divine image, and that this is the most fundamental fact about human existence), but not the conclusion (that therefore gender differences have no theological significance). The conclusion simply does not follow from the premise.
BBBIn the 1970s, this conclusion, a part of the reigning zeitgeist, was behind the drive to ordain women to Holy Orders in the Anglican/ Episcopal Church. First it was declared that deaconesses were deacons, then women were ordained as deacons, then as priests, then as bishops. One verse of Scripture (Gal 3:28, “in Christ there is no male and female”) was wrenched from its original context and made to do service for a question foreign to that context—a question, moreover, which the author of the verse had already dealt with elsewhere in a contrary way.BBB Proponents of women’s ordination announced that Jesus was far too revolutionary, daring and egalitarian to sanction something as repressive and patriarchal as an all-male leadership, and that the authentic Paul (the author of Gal. 3:28) approved of female church leaders too. BBBThe verses in Paul about women and men in his First Epistle to the Corinthians were by-passed, re-interpreted or dismissed as interpolations. The explicit denial of the possibility of women as teaching leaders in 1 Timothy was similarly dismissed as non-Pauline (as if that somehow negated its authority as part of the New Testament canon). The Fathers also were dismissed as too patriarchal, and anyhow, attention was called to how they said that both men and women equally shared the divine image.BBB So there.
BBBAs someone who observed the entire process unfolding in the Anglican Church at that time, I find it instructive to observe how the cause of women’s ordination progressed.BBB First, no bold assertions were made about Paul being crudely wrong. Theologians in seminaries, widening their eyes with as much innocence as they could muster, simply asked questions, like “Can we really regard the obviously non-Pauline sentiments in 1 Timothy 2 as binding for all places and for all times?” (They were just asking the question. The issue was, of course, very complicated, as everyone but fundamentalists recognized.) Debates were held, letters written by people on both sides of the debate to church newspapers. (No one blogged back then.) BBBPeople warned of disaster, and were in turn dismissed as alarmist and too fearful.BBB Motions in synods were made. Counter-motions were made. People lobbied. It looked as if something as basic to Church life as Holy Orders was to turn on attendance numbers at church conferences. Then the step was taken of ordaining women deacons. Relax everyone: not priests, just deacons. Then, since the Church obviously had no problem with women deacons, why not women priests? Relax everyone: just priests, not bishops. And there will be a Conscience Clause for dissenters, so no one need be afraid or alarmed. Then, since the Church obviously had no problem with women priests, why not women bishops? By then, the Conscience Clause turned out to apply only to the dinosaurs already ordained, and hopefully approaching retirement. New recruits must abide by the new orthodoxy. BBBAppeals to love, compassion and broad-mindedness were made to the rank and file, and those still rejecting the concept of women’s ordination were denounced as misogynist and ridiculed or pitied in turn. Anyone remaining in the Anglican Church of Canada now and arguing that women should not be priests enjoys all the credibility among them as that enjoyed in society by Holocaust-deniers and flat-earthers.BBB
To repeat: all this followed from the conclusion, “Gender has no theological significance because what matters is one’s humanity, not one’s gender”, so that the two-millenia old gender roles no longer applied. BBBThe next phase in the Anglican Church was the debate about same-sex marriage.BBB By this time, I had already figured out where the real Church was, and had become Orthodox. But observing this new process gave me a chilling sense of deja-vu. BBBThose in the Anglican Church, arguing for the legitimacy of same-sex marriage and of homosexual relationships in general, by then had a certain logic on their side, as well as a certain momentum. And the logic of women’s ordination seemed to be irresistible: if gender didn’t matter, then it didn’t matter. It was no use saying that men and women were different enough so that homosexual marriage was impossible for Christians.BBB In deciding to ordain women as clergy, the church had already decided men and women were to all practical intents the same. People still appealed to St. Paul in defence of the traditional understanding of sexuality, but BBBSt. Paul had long since been dismissed from theological thinking. Similarly with any appeal to history or tradition. The war promoting same-sex marriage was won without firing any real shots.BBB
What is instructive to me is that BBBWE SEE THE SAME SCENARIO BEING PLAYED AGAIN IN NORTH AMERICAN ORTHODOXY. Once again, no one is boldly saying that St. Paul can go hang. The worst that is said about him is that he did not have the benefit of reading our modern studies proving that homosexuality is inborn and God-given.BBB People are not openly denying the two-millenia old Faith, they are just asking questions, all the time dismissing their opponents who warn of disaster as alarmist and too fearful.
Here Fr. Farley reveals the crux and spiritual purpose of his article. North American Orthodoxy is well on its way down the same demonic road to anti-patriarchal apostate feminist perdition. Fr. Farley may not even conceive of the Coptic Church as an element of his concept of North American Orthodoxy, but the entire leadership of the Shenouda Church, although now lagging behind somewhat, are obviously committed fellow feminist travelers on this feminist heterodox misadventure.
Fr. Farley contradicted these misrepresentations of Orthodox Scriptures and Traditions and concluded that these gender issues are longt settled and not debatable in Orthodox theology.
BBBI think that it is time to recognize that debate is not legitimate if it is debate over things long uncontroversial in Scripture and Tradition. It is time to recognize that the present debate over gender in our Church is a symptom that we are dealing with an underlying heresy.BBB It is not enough, of course, simply to cut off debate and to tell people to shut up and sit down. Thoughtful answers need to be provided—as they were provided to Arians in the fourth century. BBBThere is a difference between debating and answering. We debate to arrive at the truth. We answer when we know what that truth is.BBB
BBBThe historic Church has long known what the truth is about human sexuality. It is time that these answers be authoritatively given.BBB
--Archpriest Lawrence R. Farley
Rather than having encouraged any debates of orthodox feminist theology, Fr. Farley has defined these debates as symptoms of an underlying unorthodox heresy. The Apostolic Orthodox Church has had the conclusive answer, given to us by the Apostles and Holy Orthodox Fathers, to this “new” heretical “problem,” for nearly 2000 years. Fr. Farley’s article shows me how this homosexuality debate is just another facet of the “new” heretical gender debates against God’s holy family and gender commandments upon which His Holy Orthodox Church was founded by His martyred Holy Apostles. Wouldn’t it be inspirational, and missionary, if one, or many of our like minded/ spirited Coptic priests, bishops, pope, or theologians were able to feel free to express their similar beliefs in a manner that supported, and even amplified, the fundamental Orthodox family and gender truths that Fr. Farley courageously held high and clear to all of us who are blessed to receive them? Sadly, today, the vital fundamental Apostolic truths that Fr. Farley has given to us, are extremely rare spiritual gems of family peace and unity that very few current christians, of any denomination, are privileged to receive and consider. No current Coptic document, in English, is even in the same league. I hope you will carefully and prayerfully seek all of its wisdom and blessings, and share them with all of us.
Thank you for pointing out the poor construction of my intent to explain that Fr. Farley’s personal account of the progress of the accomodation of heretical feminism in the Anglican Church, directly addresses the results the Coptic Church can reasonably and spiritually expect from its current secretive, incremental accommodations of the modern heresies of feminism(/freudianism) and divorce.
I have personally experienced and witnessed the “triumph” of similar feminist/ freudian/ homosexual/ divorce based apostacies in the Roman Catholic Church. The detailed history of the early battles in this demonic war is described by the blessed Irish American journalist, Donna Steichen, in UNGODLY RAGE, The Hidden Face of Catholic Feminism, which describes the similar demonic tactics that were also used by the Anglican feminists and are now employed by the demon inspired Coptic and Eastern Orthodox feminists.
This post completes my response to your Reply #146 in the earlier discussion and includes my complete response to your Reply # 14 in this discussion. I could not post the complete responses because they were too long to post. I have tried for two days to use the editing features to embolden or color limited statements for emphasis. No luck, or skill. Instead, I have placed BBB at the beginning and end of statements I want to emphasize. Sorry.
Thank you for sharing Fr. Farley’s enlightening article which addresses the spiritual and moral expectations of the current demonic perversion of accommodation of homosexual civil unions.
The concluding paragraphs of LiD’s quotation of Fr. Farley’s article discuss the inevitable eventual destructive social (and spiritual) consequences of homosexual civil unions.
Excerpt from Fr. Farley’s Article entitled Thoughts on “an Orthodox Defense of Gay Marriage.”
The full dimensions of the disaster will not be immediately apparent, so that people like Mr. Dunn can assert that allowing gay marriage does nothing to hurt the marriages of non-gays. It is true that if the State allows gay marriage in July 2011, all those people already married will not feel themselves impacted by suppertime. They will not feel their marriages impacted at all. The establishment of homosexual marriage is not a problem because of its impact on these people, or on those who will be married soon thereafter. BBBIt is a problem because it fundamentally changes the nature of our understanding of sexuality and of the complementarity of the sexes in marriage required to create and raise children who have a healthy understanding of gender roles.BBB These changes will not be apparent in society in a year or even in a few years, and during this time liberals can truthfully and cheerfully report that those in traditional marriages still find their lives untouched. But over the course of generations, the impact will be felt, and far-reaching results never foreseen or intended will surely come. I cannot elaborate further on what these unforeseen results will be, or they would not to unforeseen. BBBBut sexuality and gender is so basic to our nature (regardless of what gay propaganda says) that such a change will certainly be broad and far-reaching.BBB
BBBIn this the situation somewhat resembles the liberalization of divorce laws in Canada in the 1960s.BBB There may have been good reasons for the liberalization which made divorce easier than before. The foreseen and intended result was the support of suffering spouses and meeting the need to shorten and end that suffering. BBBThe unforeseen result was the present culture of divorce and the explosion of the number divorces after but a few years of marriage, with heart-break for the divorced spouses themselves and latent long-term instability for the children who see their worlds torn apart. Yet another result has been the rise of single-parent families with its almost inevitable financial pressure and the much-lamented “child poverty”.BBB These results were not foreseen nor intended, but they can be traced back to the change in divorce laws nonetheless.
BBBIn the same way, creating a category of homosexual marriage inevitably will alter the perception of sexuality in the succeeding generations in ways we cannot foresee.BBB It is true that the Church can remain aloof from society, and hunker down in its bunker while society around them experiences the problems traced back to its having shifted its basic foundations. We can say, “We still maintain our traditional marriage practices, even though society around us doesn’t, so we don’t care what society does.” We would score high in purity of doctrine, but quite low in being our brother’s keeper. The Church does have a stake in what secular society does (contra the Anabaptists and Mr. Dunn). That is why we Christians urge society to do things which will help all those in society, whether they are Christians or not. We urge the State to help feed the poor. We urge to State to educate its young about the dangers of drug and alcohol abuse. And we do this urging, not just because we are concerned that Christians be fed and saved from drug and alcohol abuse, but because we want everyone else to be fed and saved too. In the matter of fundamental truths in society, we are our brother’s keeper.
It is true that changing the laws to allow same-sex marriage will not immediately result in a flood of such marriages, since the homosexual part of North American population seems to run at between 1 and 4%. That is not the point. BBBThe point is that we changing our cultural understanding of what gender means, and the logic of this change will work itself out in many unforeseen ways in the coming generations regardless of marriage stats in 2011 or the decades after. Our children’s children, looking back at us in a hundred years’ time, will not rise up to call us blessed.BBB
This article is intended to defend the Orthodox Church’s opposition to homosexual civil unions, to a secular audience. He has kept his Orthodox spirituality in the background while showing that the uncompromised principles of God’s truths are not only good theology, but can also make a good society.
LiD, in numerous other related posts here on tasbeha.org and on coptichymns.net, I have stated and described feminist, freudian and divorce supporting heterodox statements, actions and omissions , that I have witnessed, by Coptic leaders and representatives, including by H.H. Pope Shenouda, that contradict the traditional Orthodox Scriptural, Apostolic and Patristic teachings and the spirit of God’s clear patriarchal family and gender commandments. I gather from the seeming enlightened perceptions of your comments in these discussions, that you are aware of the nature of my concerns regarding the “new” unorthodox “Christian developmental” debates that you mention, but hopefully, are not seeking. As Fr. Farley seems to have shown, it is the communal demonic rebellious spirit of these modern secular challenges to God’s eternal created patriarchal family and gender order, not a few incrementally more evil disobediences, that are crucial to the survival of Orthodox faith and family life.
If you cannot obtain, from a glance at my previous (poorly written) relevant posts, a sufficient understanding of the details of the “supposed sins of the Coptic Church” that are the bases of my concerns, please let me know and I will review the posts and rewrite, and repost, the details of the incidents that you question.
NOW, I’LL TAKE A DEEP BREATH AND TRY TO RESPOND TO LiD’ S REPLY #14 IN THIS DISCUSSION.
Quote from: LoveisDivine on September 22, 2011, 08:40:44 PM
Quote from: irishpilgrim on September 22, 2011, 09:54:49 AM
Unworthy1,
Of course, not without full disclosure of the present Coptic feminist/freudian based abandonment of and disbelief in the traditional orthodox understanding and application of the scriptural gender and family commandments as passed down to us by our Holy Orthodox Fathers. Including, full disclosure of the actual present reinterpretation of and disbelief in the plain scripture and patristic based meaning of the entire authentic traditional Coptic marriage liturgy.
I think that most young Copts and family aged inquirers seek a church and community that they can depend upon to always support, nurture and protect the spiritual and civil integrity, peace and security of their present and future family. No church "package" should be sold deceptively like a used car or a Wall Street "security," or a glitzy modern American "megachurch." Full disclosure will not deceive inquirers seeking another modern thinking, anti-patriarchal, feminism friendly, "non-judgmental," mushy pastoral freudianism based church. They will probably be leaving soon for a newer "experience" , anyway.
Hi Brother,
The articles which you are declaring as a theological deviation were discussed in the ecumenical dialogues between the Eastern and Oriental Orthodox families; there is a mutual agreement of Orthodoxy and acknowledgement of marriages signed in the Alexandrian dioceses of the Coptic and Greek Orthodox Church of Alexandria.
I recall that there was only one point of disagreement and it was on the Coptic side with respect to the Easterners and not the other way around but it was accepted on the grounds that it is not universal practice.
I have never seen any indication of the discussion of the vital issues concerning loyalty to and/or compromise of the traditional Scriptural/ Apostolic teaching and practice of the traditional, 2000 year, patriarchal gender, marriage and family commandments - of essentially the entire Christian Church and their varied cultures - during the Eastern and Oriental “ecumenical” dialogues. I doubt that these issues would have been “politically correct” because the dialogues were conducted under the “ecumenical” auspices of the WCC which had already adopted a feminist leadership and a final innovative feminist conclusion to this “issue” (modeled by the “new” Anglican ecclesiology described by Fr. Farley). It is puzzling, but noteworthy to me that, seemingly, both “orthodox” leaderships came away from the time period and experience of the dialogues with an anti-patriarchal, feminist tolerant/ activist spirit and agenda for their respective churches. This feminist spirit has produced the acceptance of divorce and the other Anglican feminist/ homosexual capitulations which Fr. Farley has summarized through all western Orthodox jurisdictions; it has engendered the feminization of the western Catholic Church’s “hidden” educational system as earlier reported in UNGODLY RAGE, The Hidden Face of Catholic Feminism, by Donna Steichen, and is now revealed in the exploding divorce rate, Catholic priest homosexual/ sex abuse scandals and general Catholic sexual/ moral collapse; it has motivated the routine acceptance of divorce, the now nearly open, feminist led revolt throughout the theological and clerical leadership of the western Eastern Orthodox elite for ordination of women as “orthodox” priests (this is probably the true basis of Fr. Farley’s call for return to traditional Orthodox gender catechesis; and it has led to a drastic increase in seemingly clergy and senior women parish leaders’ sanctioning and/or encouragement of young Coptic wife caused divorces throughout the wide spread major U. S. Coptic Churches, it has completely compromised and silenced the teaching of the traditional Orthodox understandings of the Holy Bible’s patriarchal gender, marriage and family commandments, and it has engendered the forceful introduction of secular and freudian heterodox innovations by all levels of the Coptic leadership and catechetical institutions, seemingly led by the deceptively feminist synodal Coptic Department of Youth, led by the “showcased” women’s (and men’s) monasteries, and manifested by all other theological formation activities that are accessable to Coptic English only speakers. Glimpses, in English, into the progress of the seemingly intellectual and cloistered command center of the Egyptian Coptic feminists’ “obedience in resistence” can be gleened from the coded writings of Nelly van Doorn-Harder, a long time feminist provocateur in international Islamic and Coptic circles. She now seems to be specializing in radical feminization of Egyptian Coptic women monks and intellectuals. This may be personally healthier and less challenging than her earlier efforts to destabilize Islamic patriarchal cultural and family order.
All of the Coptic leaderships’ written propaganda supporting feminism’s destruction of God’s patriarchal family and gender commandments are seemingly demonically and dialectically coded and deceptively concealed similarly to that of the cancerous incremental decay process that Fr. Farley has described for the earlier feminist apostacy of the Anglican Church. Our zealous Coptic feminist pope, bishops, priests and mercenary freudian “specialists” will occassionally directly reveal their heartfelt feminist beliefs verbally, but then deny or equivocate their own or their comrades’ very spoken words. All North American Coptic “family counselling” now seems to be conducted by mercenary secretly freudian “trained” clerical and lay “specialists,” according to arbitrary intrusive secret freudian principles and procedures. Where is the “new” public Coptic freudian gender and family “bible” that contains the common basis for the “new” freudian feminist Coptic “family equality” order? Mercenary counselling by intimidation and ambush of the father head of family is not Scriptural, rational, nor long term peace/ order making.
The article which you keep posting as an anti-coptic reference is on an unofficial site about financial accountability in the OCA, it has nothing to do with the Coptic Church.
The content of ocanews.org is probably more meaningful and credible to me than to most other Coptic readers. I spent about ten hopeful years in the various jurisdictions which are the major subjects of the ocanews discussions, and every new issue is like another disappointing “old home week” to me. Of course the jurisdictional leaders and their “a _ _ kissers” (favor seekers) make various obvious attempts to discredit the most honest and insightful reports, but I, shamefully, rate the hierarchy critical posts to be 99% humble, valid and honest. I believe that ocanews has received several awards for objective, valuable reporting. I understand that ocanews was started to investigate and report obstenent hierarchal financial corruption in the OCA, but its continuing need now carries over to many other areas of hierarchal and clerical misconduct in many U.S and Canadian Eastern Orthodox jurisdictions. I recommend an occassional read of spiritual reality in ocanews.org to all serious Coptic bishops, priests and laity. Our ecumenical ambitions may include some curiosity and transparency elements. Some unfairly married and divorced Coptic husband and children victims may seek explanations in the press or in other venues.
I hope you don’t intend to discredit Fr. Farley’s articles by casting aspersions upon ocanews. Do you expect to find proofs of their own heresies on Eastern Orthodox, or Coptic Church official websites? Of course not. The Coptic sites glorify Pope Shenouda’s expansion of women’s theological education “opportunities,” without revealing their apparently undisciplined intent to destroy our previous 2000 years of faith saving patriarchal Orthodox family integrity, faithfulness and fecundity. I’ve tried to explain, above, why I feel that Fr. Farley’s article is vitally relevant and important to all wavering Eastern and Oriental Orthodox Churches who are tempted by feminisms’ disarming flirtations and are disinterested in facing the task of re-catechising misled Orthodox women and helping to dig our churches out of the demonic heretical hog wallows that seeming neglect and bad intent have caused. .
Please explain in detail (sp) what this supposed heresy is and how we're committing it and why it has never been seen as an issue during Oriental/Eastern dialogue.
I’ve explained some of the detailed Coptic manifestations of our demonic Coptic feminist/ freudian/ divorce apostacy/ heresy here. As I mentioned above, my previous posts on coptichymns and here on tasbeha describe more of the clergy’s heterodox actions that manifest this departure from traditional Apostolic Coptic Orthodox gender and family principles and relationships. These are unpleasant and ackward incidents for me to retell, but if you require clarifications of any of them, I’ll try to help.
God bless you, please pray for me.
You haven't described a heresy at all, you've described a conspiracy.
I've emailed Fr Lawrence directly to get his opinion on this and I will report back shortly.
Please pray for me,
LiD
Thank you for your continuing interest in this vital, Orthodox family and faith threatening issue. I hope that Fr. Farley has time, and career challenging courage to contribute further. He has already courageously, indirectly, called for his EO bishops to correct this feminism heresy as it now has progressed and threatens in that jurisdiction. I experienced the U.S. Catholic and EO Churches' acquiescense to the current stage of the Coptic feminist divorce epidemic about 20-30 years ago. I bailed out of those seemingly sinking family ships at that time. Fr. Farley's open call of alarm is similar to the Faith saving, Spirit inspired, call of St. Mark of Ephesus (and that of our [now ignored and/or scorned?] St. Dioscorus).
I would agree that the Apostolic, Scriptural family and gender traditions and heritage of the Coptic Church and its newly married fathers and their young children are victims of an (HERETICAL) conspiracy against God's, and their, traditional Orthodox family and gender commandments and perogatives. The heresy seems to be effected, distributed and enforced (or acquiesced to) through modern (50-100 year old) demonic feminism addicted Coptic women, clergy, mercenary freudians and laity.
Please pray for the newest, and the long festering, separated Coptic fathers and children victims of divorce; and for me.
After posting the above statements, I realized that we may be speaking past each other, rather than addressing the same issues. You may be basing your cross jurisdiction marriage conclusions on issues outside my concerns of the common feminism heresies of both the Coptic and most EO jurisdictions.
I dislike hypotheticals, but I'll try to explain my concern as follows: Assume that the U.S. Coptic and Greek Orthodox churches authorized intermarriages. Because of the actual current common heretical anti-patriarchal/ feminist philosophy and practice in control of gender and family "theology and practice" in both churches - in spite of the presumed patriarchal literal meaning in both churches' witnessed "life long" marriage liturgy - there would be no substantial support or encouragement from the bishops, clergy and parishioners of any U.S. Greek Orthodox or Coptic Orthodox Church for the husband/father head, and his children; from a vindictive, rebellious wife/ mother who prosecutes a "no-fault" "civil" divorce to win her heretical challenge to her husband's family authority and to show "the world" that she (and the mercenary divorce industry) is in full charge of that "phony, ridicules 'life long' church marriage," that she is well rewarded (and respected, in both churches) for mocking.
No family faith concerned Orthodox man should marry in today's feminist dominant western societies without an ironclad pre-marital marriage contract (with any woman he seeks to marry), to attempt to protect his God ordained patriarchal perogatives and responsibilities to lead his family as God has established from the beginning. Avoidance of abundant assets is his best protection from attraction from "legal professional" and spousal greed, which could lead to attempts to "break" his families' marriage (and family peace) contract. Does the betrayed husband/ father choose to pay Greek or Egyptian freudians to rub salt into his and his children's wounds? Some choice!
I hope this inept analogy will help focus any duplicity in our understandings of each other.
This will be the last time which I have any correspondance on this matter; here is the reply from Fr. Lawrence speaking in his own words: And Fr. Lawrence's reply: I would strongly urge you to take your queries up with Fr. Lawrence directly as you're not representing his opinions accurately, the repeat claims made each time his blog has been reposted; that it is about the Coptic Church are inaccurate and he admits to being an admirer of the Coptic Church.
Your posts are by your own admission unclear and I am sorry to do this but I must also add in need of greater consideration and accuracy. I recommend that you do continue your search for and concern for truth please use more discrete lines of inquiry and exhibit more care not to misrepresent faithful sons of the Church in this way.
I am sorry if you have been through a painful divorce with a strong minded woman, may God grant you the healing to help you one day love again; and may the Coptic Church forever continue its witness to the truth. Amen.
Please pray for me,
LiD
Hi Irish Pilgrim,
Would I be right in saying that you were previously married and then divorced? It sounds like it would have been very painful.
Please pray for me,
LiD
Hi LoveisDivine,
Yes, my divorce insights are based upon my personal experiences in my,still unexplained, "modern" Catholic Church supported, surprise divorce by my pampered Irish Catholic wife; and are based upon my unwillingly divorced father's experiences with my, formerly well nurtured, later divorce scandalized and alienated children of divorce. During and after my personal divorce process (which actually never ends), I spent several years meeting with several thousand unwillingly divorced fathers and mothers who were seeking understanding of and solutions to their own and their children's divorce caused miseries. After futilely searching for honest religious, legal, psycho-medical (freudian) and political solutions, I gave up this folly and concluded that these institutions are the causes and mercenary/ emotional beneficiaries of this "new" demonic systemic international divorce trauma epidemic. I rationally sought a comfortable culture of scriptural, patriarchal family and gender theology, practice, worship and life. Within 4-5 years, all of the major EO jurisdictions, except ROCOR, proved themselves to be feminist, or politically gender and family theology compromised. I increased my participation in the Coptic Church and eventually received rebaptism.
My Coptic FOC sponsor persistently tried to teach the scriptural and patristic family and gender commandments of the Old and New Testaments to his Houston parishes. Sometimes his studies were rudely and loudly interrupted by contentious, usually uncovered, sometimes seated with the men, dressed and painted as if seemingly married to "successful" businessmen, arrogant seeming Coptic women. When I questioned this seeming Catholic, Protestant, raging secular feminist behavior, Father assured me that these were indeed atypical, Egyptian Catholic, Protestant, secular, money, education, influenced women who were just temporarily intent on causing trouble and creating rebellious self-importance among themselves. Father indicated that these disrespectful women would be escorted out of the churches in Egypt by the ushers. This FOC continued to conduct and discuss these studies (sometimes similarly interrupted) of God's family and gender commandments (identical to teachings I had received during my youth and maturation in my Pre-Vatican II, pre-marriage, Irish Catholic family, parish and community) until he eventually returned to Egypt. Because of seeming Coptic feminist "advances" in Egypt, his Orthodox family and gender theology studies may now also be rudely interrupted there. I've been told that loud, rude Coptic feminists have also recently interrupted HH Pope Shenouda's televised talks. I have occassionally watched some Egyptian Coptic liturgical services on friends' TV. It seemed to me that most of the women were uncovered. Is this an international show of a new Coptic feminist “resistance in ‘disobedience’?" Of course, even papal animals would come home to roost. Or, return to eat their own vomit?
Since my Coptic FOC returned to Egypt, I have futilely searched diligently for another openly traditional Coptic patriarchal/ patristic theology faithful bishop or priest. A few priests secretly express an understanding of and belief in traditional patriarchal family and gender theology and against the signs of increasing, creeping Coptic feminist theology, practice and immorality in the Coptic community. Every Coptic bishop that I have approached has refused to discuss, or has scoffed at, traditional Coptic patriarchal gender and family theology and has overtly, or indirectly, indicated support for or acquiescense to traditional feminist gender and family objectives. This heretical episcopal/ clerical disinterest and cowardice, bolstered by the increasing popularity and occurrence of rebellious young Coptic wife caused divorce, seems to me to portend (based on their parallel history in the U.S. Catholic, Protestant, and EO jurisdictions) a continuing similar decline in Coptic family integrity and strength in adversity; and a similar decline in Coptic sexual and general morality. Spend a couple of years in a feminist/ homosexual centered Protestant or Catholic parish (don’t take your young boys or girls with you) to obtain a preview of Coptic parish life in 2020, or sooner. Please tell me, why did Jesus ask, “when the Son of man comes, will He find faith on earth?” Lk.18:8; and why did He tell His disciples to use this simple preparation for His coming: “If you love me, you will keep my commandments. ?“ Jn.14:15.
I couldn't believe when the young, educated, seemingly well provided for Coptic wives and mothers in my Houston Coptic parish began divorcing their admirable, loving, caring Coptic husbands (with toddler and elementary aged children), in seemingly similar circumstances as my children and I had experienced in the Catholic Church. I am determined to intrude in, search for and oppose the cause of this present and future misery for these admirable Coptic (and other Orthodox) fathers and their children. When HH Pope Shenouda comes within my range again, I will be among those sitting at his door, day and night, to ask: why has he compromised the enduring patriarchal Apostolic gender, marriage and family/ monastic theology and life of his own Coptic sons and daughters, that the 5th - 6th century Coptic missionary monks taught to my pagan, tree worshiping, Irish ancestors, and that served our poor, persecuted, but faithful and fecund Irish families perfectly for about 1500 years, until we were likewise betrayed by demonic feminism’s divorce (and abortion) advocates?
My divorce derailed my lifelong career, family, faith, business and social experiences, vision and goals. This was confusing, but God provided many unexpected, more honest, deeper and more valuable alternatives, challenges and friendships. Being specially experienced and prepared to knowledgeably, even if clumsily, advocate for faithful study of and obedience to God’s traditional Orthodox marriage, family and gender commandments, in a period of their seeming virtual abandonment by nearly all “so-called” christian churches, surpasses any personal blessing that I could have imagined, or hoped for. Thank God for everything, always.
Please pray for me.