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Egypt update?
Is anyone here following the events in Egypt closely? If so, please update us as to what's happening. From the brief things I've read in the news, protestors are rioting in the thousands against the military council and people are getting killed. . .
Is this a positive sign? What's going on with elections?
Thanks in advance.
Is this a positive sign? What's going on with elections?
Thanks in advance.
Comments
1. There are not going to be any elections...just an appearance of an election.
2. There will be no Coptic seats won...because Copts don't exist in Egypt.
3. There will be no change in regime...because the Government will always be ruled by the military.
4. Mubarak is out...but he was only a face for the military.
5. The Muslim Brotherhood has been in charge since the 60's...and is now taking a more overt presence.
6. Nasser, Sadat, Mubarak, were in one way or another annexed or members of the MB.
To clarify things one more time:
There will be no real elections in Egypt. It is a fantasy and play act that is being put on for the Western Countries.
Who set the rules for the elections...Muslims.
Who are the parties running in the elections...Muslims
Who is going to count the ballots...Muslims
Who is going to interpret the results...Muslims
Who will draw up the Constitution...Muslims
Who is going to lose, again...THE COPTS
I guess if you are a Coptic in Egypt, you have to go through the sham of voting to appease your conscience and to at least carry out an act, but don't put any hopes up. I guess if I was in Egypt I would go and vote, also. Yet, You cannot have any hope in an Islamic System geared towards propagating itself. Your only Hope is in the Son of the Living God. Fasting and Prayer do work.
To the Muslims who are of "open minds", we are just their "pets". They just want to make sure we have nice dog houses to live in and that we get dog food on a daily basis. Bow Wow.
Long live the Muslim Brotherhood [sarcasm]
I believe that the Son of the Living God will have something to say about that...eventually.
Fasting and Prayer.
Fasting and Prayer.
Fasting and Prayer.
Fasting and Prayer.
Fasting and Prayer.
Fasting and Prayer.
Fasting and Prayer.
...and the Seven Holy Sacraments.
BTW: that would be real fasting as compared to I'm going to have a siyami cake and siyami baklava, and siyami cheese, and all of the other "gray" nonsense.
I think St. John the Baptist had the right idea.
"To the Muslims who are of "open minds", we are just their "pets". They just want to make sure we have nice dog houses to live in and that we get dog food on a daily basis. Bow Wow."
That is false. Many muslims are open minded liberals who truly want to see a free Egypt, just go to Egypt and see; many young people are very open-minded and couldn't care less about religion. You can't brand someone because they are Muslim as bad; there are good Muslims, albeit they also happen to be the least religious ones.
On the other, many of them are radicals (to be honest, a good proportion of them and NOT a minority).
The protests in Egypt are of good nature, they are responding to real problems that you can't deny. The past governments which you seem to support were corrupt, cruel and let's not forget discriminatory to Copts; it's not like it was heaven on Earth for us under Mubarak, church attacks and Copt murders (eg. al-Kosheh) went completely unpunished and religious discrimination was rampant. Now I will admit that the past regime was probably the better of two evils if the Brotherhood comes into power.
All in all, what i mean is that what happened in Egypt was bound to happen, it is not of Islamic nature; it is the result of decades of cruel dictatorship under which people were going hungry and unemployed with no end in sight; people just got fed up and went out because they had nothing to live for anymore.
The problem becomes then, when the dictatorship leaves it also leaves a country that is mostly illiterate and uneducated. Add to this the Muslim Brotherhood who preys on the poor and illiterate by giving them free food and are supposedly men of God and you have a bad situation on your hands.
Although I will admit it will probably be impossible for Copts to truly live freely in Egypt because of the plague of Islam and its disgusting teachings, things can get better in the right environment. What Egypt needs is a transitional government that is both religiously and militarily independent for a few years. In those years liberal parties can organize themselves and educate people. However, I admit such a scenario might be a stretch.
Fianlly, it is important for Copts to vote! It is not simply for their consciousness. You can't not vote and them complain about the result. Any vote can make the difference, Copts are a sizable minority and we can influence the vote.
I'm looking at chaos in Egypt, which is intentional.
Mubarak was not my happy President of Egypt.
I'm still waiting to meet this majority of "liberal minded" Muslims. If they are this mass majority, then none of what would be happening would be so.
So when is the next census in Egypt? What random number will they attribute?
Get used to it my friend, we are pets. I kind of like being a pet; free meals, a little pat on the head, a flee collar, etc.
Islam is incompatible with Democracy. Hence, democracy and free elections can never happen.
Where are those millions of liberal Muslims? I have yet to meet one in any aspect of existence in Egypt or the United States.
Dreaming is one thing, fantasy is another.
There are no Muslims who will protect or harbor a Christian in a manner similar to Catholics or Protestants doing for Jews in World War II. In like manner when Coptics took in Armenians during the Genocide.
I agree with you sentiments ilovestaintmark.
Because it is muslims who run Eygpt, those who aren't muslim are implyed that they are not loyal Eygptians. The law says that, eg having to say your christian on your passport.
Islam comes from Saudi Arabia. So the people in their own land become forigeners because they aren't muslim.
If I was to argue there, it would be that there are laws that are unfair and say that christians aren't loyal to the country, when really they are loyal. Besides the Coptic christians are true Eygptians as they held onto their identity even after the invasion by forigeners.
I don't support any Muslim regime, including Mubarak.
I'm looking at chaos in Egypt, which is intentional.
Mubarak was not my happy President of Egypt.
I'm still waiting to meet this majority of "liberal minded" Muslims. If they are this mass majority, then none of what would be happening would be so.
So when is the next census in Egypt? What random number will they attribute?
Get used to it my friend, we are pets. I kind of like being a pet; free meals, a little pat on the head, a flee collar, etc.
Islam is incompatible with Democracy. Hence, democracy and free elections can never happen.
Where are those millions of liberal Muslims? I have yet to meet one in any aspect of existence in Egypt or the United States.
Dreaming is one thing, fantasy is another.
There are no Muslims who will protect or harbor a Christian in a manner similar to Catholics or Protestants doing for Jews in World War II. In like manner when Coptics took in Armenians during the Genocide.
I never said they were necessarily a majority but they do exist, disregarding them is not fair at all. I've been to Egypt many times and all my neighbors are Muslims, my parents' friends are Muslims, and there's nothing wrong with them. There's a difference between Muslims in Egypt and in the US, here they seem much more radicalized than back in Egypt. I am not saying it's a majority, but there are good people out there that truly want to see a free Egypt. If you've never seen one 'liberal' as such, I encourage to go on a social networking site and check the activists behind these protests. You will see they are asking for freedom for everyone and they could not care less for religion. In fact, they probably hate the Islamist parties more than you and me combined.
I also never said Islam was compatible with democracy, in fact it is probably the anti-thesis of freedom and democracy but I would have absolutely no problem with a Muslim president in Egypt as long as he respects the rights of all; in fact, I couldn't care less if he worshipped donkeys and horses; he's a politician as long as he stays out of religious affairs, I'll judge him on the job he does.
What you are disregarding is that this "chaos" has nothing to do with Islam and is a response of simply hungry people, whether they be Muslims or Copts. Everyone needs to eat and feed their families.
Finally, Joshuaa, you're right it is our land and Muslims are invaders but then again we live in the US and 99% of the people here are invaders of the land of the Natives so if we get into whose land it is, that conversation won't get anywhere.
So when is the next census in Egypt? What random number will they attribute?
H.H. has ordered an official count of Egypt's Christian population.
I don't rthink it is about whose land it is, but more about identity and who is loyal to it. In America, the diversity of identity made for the democracy. Where there wasn't the aligance just to England anymore. There was something akin to a dictatorship in Eygpt, so there wasn't much movement concerning the rights of every person in the country. A government if it is going to be fair should treat all of it's citizens the same.
Oujai
I do believe in Civic responsibility.
I do believe that a system that is in Egypt cannot change as long as its core is Islamic in any form. There is no wave from the Muslims of the country to remove the famous Article 2 of the Constitution. Hence, any of their patronizing "kumbaya" undertakings and words have no meaning. My credo: skip the words and show me the action. A pet owner says cute words to his doggie, but he cannot ever take on the dog as a human partner or friend.
A Coptic, who is a United States citizen, would be commiting treason to register and vote in Egyptian elections. I am an American Citizen. I will neither register or vote in the Egyptian elections. If I was in Egypt, it would be a different story. I would probably vote in the elections.
His Holiness has to make certain remarks. He is in a tight situation and trying to keep an overpowered and unarmed minority alive. I do not think there will be a proper census of the Copts. Why would the Islamic system want to give any credibility to the Coptic existence? It is like the Planet of the Apes (original with Charlton Heston) the Apes knew what the real roots and origin of the planet. They knew that the humans were superior. They did everything to try to keep them enslaved and suppressed, but the truth always comes out. We are heading towards Armageddon. The two systems cannot coexist. Each year, it gets worse in the Middle East. There is no retreating for any faction. The central core of the issue is: Good vs. Evil; Christianity vs. Islam. I believe Judgment Day is getting closer and closer; whether tomorrow or an hundred years. Prophecy is being fulled and carried out to fulfillment and conclusion. There has to be a major collision. Good must and will triumph. Christianity will triumph because Her Master is the King of Kings.
Our Holy Bible, repeatedly tells us not to put our faith in rulers: the frailty of the monarchs of Israel, the exile rulers, the Herods, the Pilates, and the Caesars. Our Faith, against all odds, must be in the Son of the Living God. He, despite being the Master of the Universe, allowed Himself to be judged by evildoers, and in the end conquered them with one sweep.
The problem with Islam is Christianity. Christians are just not being Christian. We are the problem not them. The only place that we will find solutions is in our own inward reflection and realization. We are Christian. We should act Christian. We should pray and fast as Christians. Christians moved mountains by fasting and prayer. Christians did talk to their rulers, negotiated with their rulers, did not fight with their rulers, did not take up arms against their rulers, but they defeated their rulers by their prayers and fasting to their Almighty Father.
I believe: function properly within your civic duties within the boundaries of your Christianity (that includes voting), but your main calling is to be a Christian despite what the National State is conceived.
Oujai qen `P[C
Let me simplify things:
1. There are not going to be any elections...just an appearance of an election.
2. There will be no Coptic seats won...because Copts don't exist in Egypt.
3. There will be no change in regime...because the Government will always be ruled by the military.
4. Mubarak is out...but he was only a face for the military.
5. The Muslim Brotherhood has been in charge since the 60's...and is now taking a more overt presence.
6. Nasser, Sadat, Mubarak, were in one way or another annexed or members of the MB.
To clarify things one more time:
There will be no real elections in Egypt. It is a fantasy and play act that is being put on for the Western Countries.
Who set the rules for the elections...Muslims.
Who are the parties running in the elections...Muslims
Who is going to count the ballots...Muslims
Who is going to interpret the results...Muslims
Who will draw up the Constitution...Muslims
Who is going to lose, again...THE COPTS
I guess if you are a Coptic in Egypt, you have to go through the sham of voting to appease your conscience and to at least carry out an act, but don't put any hopes up. I guess if I was in Egypt I would go and vote, also. Yet, You cannot have any hope in an Islamic System geared towards propagating itself. Your only Hope is in the Son of the Living God. Fasting and Prayer do work.
To the Muslims who are of "open minds", we are just their "pets". They just want to make sure we have nice dog houses to live in and that we get dog food on a daily basis. Bow Wow.
Long live the Muslim Brotherhood [sarcasm]
I believe that the Son of the Living God will have something to say about that...eventually.
Fasting and Prayer.
Fasting and Prayer.
Fasting and Prayer.
Fasting and Prayer.
Fasting and Prayer.
Fasting and Prayer.
Fasting and Prayer.
...and the Seven Holy Sacraments.
BTW: that would be real fasting as compared to I'm going to have a siyami cake and siyami baklava, and siyami cheese, and all of the other "gray" nonsense.
I think St. John the Baptist had the right idea.
Thank u.
The election will continue in other provinces during the second and third stage of elections, where the islamists are expected to run away with the elections due to the village nature of these provinces.
It seems that the MB will achieve 50% of the votes and will be able to form a government. If they fail, they will have the Salafis as their sidekick in an extremist coalition government.
Should not come as a surprise. This is the outcome of any "free" election in an Islamic state.
I would have never have guessed.
I'm so glad that the MB is going to take care of us Coptics.
The United States did such a wonderful job in helping set up the
torture and daily destruction of our people.
Obama, is practically a Muslim saint now.
[quote author=ilovesaintmark link=topic=12596.msg147899#msg147899 date=1322052798]
Let me simplify things:
1. There are not going to be any elections...just an appearance of an election.
Democratic elections imply that the person who wins is a representative of that area, district or country. In theory, all views held by the candidate is representative of the voters. However, nowadays a candidate only has to appear to represent one belief or desire of his constituents in order to be elected. The fact is no candidate represents all the views of the voters. Many candidates only agree 5-50% with their constituent voters as seen on many political polls. So a candidate need only appear to represent his voters. In order to appear like the right person for the job, candidates appear on televised debates and bombard us with commercials. Voters choose and elect their representatives based on these televised appearances. I can't recall the last time candidates had a non-televised debate. Then after the televised debates, we rely on the televised media to "explain" what each candidate implied. I'd dare say that people who voted do not know one single bit of information about their candidate outside of what is shown on TV. Has anyone actually reviewed Obama's decisions as a lawyer, a state senator or US senator before he/she voted for Obama? I can go on about how the practice of democracy in the US is also about appearances. This is true. But is it necessarily a result of an Islamic government and Islamic elections? How many Copts in the US hold or ever held any political seat? Few. I don't have a number but it seems Copts do not engage in politics even outside of Egypt. We can't put the whole blame on Islam or the Egyptian government. One can argue President GW Bush was the face of the military against Iraq, yet Clinton kept troops in Iraq. Even with a "change of regime", are we not just putting a new face on the military? After all, Obama added troops to Iraq and started a military campaign against Afghanistan. The military continues to have power and it is the single largest expense in federal dollars. Nothing else even comes close.
And we are only talking about physical atrocities. What about intangible practices? The US government is known to help lobbyists, political contributors, the oil industry, the insurance industry, the banks and big business. The government doesn't care about the little people. There is still racism, poverty, high crime, one of the lowest education rates in the world and overall inconsistency to the founding principles of democracy. Governments only need to appear like they care and claim change will occur. Hence we have the phrase "Business as usual in Washington". But if change does occur like many candidates promise during their campaigns, then why did the Occupy protests come into existence? Obviously some candidate is not voicing and representing the opinion of the protesters. And what about the Coptic rallies for human rights that has occurred in the last year. Did the US government influence any change in favor of the Copts? It makes one ask, "Is democracy representing all the people, or a selective group?
I just wanted to show our picture of Islamic democracy (whatever that is) is not much different than US democracy (whatever that is).
In the end, I think we just leave all of this to Caesar. If we focused this much on our eternal lives, we would nearly guarantee a seat (pun intend) in heaven.
We have Muslim rulers in Egypt and a Muslim ruler in the USA.
Metaphorically and allegorically, 'I sold something for more than I paid for it.'
What's that gotta do with predicting events before they occur?
What did you sell?
I feel this is another '10% of 10% tithing' joke... ::)
It would take two pages of writing to explain.
This is my definition of a "prophet" that I used to use in Sunday School: 'when you sell something for more than you paid for it.'
Metaphorically and allegorically, 'I sold something for more than I paid for it.'
LOL deep.
Hey buddy!! Mind explaining it to me? ;D
It is by far the funniest and absurdly accurate pun I have ever heard.
ILSM, how's that explanation? Less than 2 pages.
I get it, except for this part: How did he 'sell it for more than he paid for it'?
I have a headache-- metaphorically and allegorically.. inexplicably and cryptically.
There is a deal with the junta, and with Mama America.
There were gross violations throughout the whole political transition process since the toppling of President Mubarak till the voting booth count, starting with the constitution drafting till the setting the election standards and rules.
But:
To claim that the Islamists will win because of these violations and other vote irregularities is analogous to claiming that a Kobe-led Lakers team defeated the Clippers in the NBA because a couple of dubious referee calls. It was not out of necessity that they made these violations, it was out of their pure crooked nature that cannot deal with others in a respectful manner. It is like a billionaire who steals candy from a dollar store.
And:
The real surprise is that they did not sweep the elections. Look at the brighter side (kind of) :
The egyptian bloc getting 22 % of the vote !!!! They only existed for 4-5 months compared to 80 years existence of the MB. They had limited resources as opposed to the petro-dollar showers pouring on the Islamists. They were intimidated along every step of the way by the junta-supported Islamists and by the junta themselves, as opposed to the erotic romance between the junta and Islamists. This is quite an achievement, regardless of how much this % will drop when the elections shifts to more conservative provinces.
The only problem is that in an islamists-controlled country, these early fruits of liberal movements will be crushed. Look at post-1979 Iran.
That is exactly what I meant.
Stavro,
Those funny little parties are part of the deal to give a semblance of "democracy". If you read back your stated chronology, and the limited resource towards possible election, the new parties "miraculously" win 20%. It is part of the "bessara" that they are cooking. In the end, the ingestion of the "bessara" gives forth a flatulence which leaves behind a stench, and the latrine shows the true material of the cooking. How is that for a "play" on things.