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Time away from service?
Hey all -
I need your advice and prayers.
I recently got into an altercation with my Sunday school steward. We are not seeing eye-to-eye on something I consider a serious issue. I don't wish to discuss that specific problem but the problem underlying it.
That problem is, I think, I have become terrible with authority - questioning the decisions of the leaders, believing them to be doing things incorrectly or not diligently enough. I was humbled in my altercation with my steward for he revealed to me the very same flaws I found in others, in myself.
I am at a point where I feel I cannot serve and am unfit for service. I know my FoC will tell me to continue to serve but I don't think I should.
I feel like the service is hindering my spiritual life and that I am missing the humble spirit that is a prerequisite to serving.
What do you all think: Is time away from service a good idea? How long should I take a break?
I need your advice and prayers.
I recently got into an altercation with my Sunday school steward. We are not seeing eye-to-eye on something I consider a serious issue. I don't wish to discuss that specific problem but the problem underlying it.
That problem is, I think, I have become terrible with authority - questioning the decisions of the leaders, believing them to be doing things incorrectly or not diligently enough. I was humbled in my altercation with my steward for he revealed to me the very same flaws I found in others, in myself.
I am at a point where I feel I cannot serve and am unfit for service. I know my FoC will tell me to continue to serve but I don't think I should.
I feel like the service is hindering my spiritual life and that I am missing the humble spirit that is a prerequisite to serving.
What do you all think: Is time away from service a good idea? How long should I take a break?
Comments
As far as taking a break from the service, I don't see anything wrong with it. God isn't going to hate you for it. It's good for you if you want to rethink how you look at yourself and others. If you feel like you need a break, take a break.
It is in my opinion that taking a break from service for your own spiritual life is not only allowed, but is encouraged. Our Master Himself often took time withdrawing into the deserts where he would have conversations with God. So He gives us this example of withdrawing so that you can speak with God more clearly.
It is in Christian philosophy to serve! We must at all times serve, because in the moment we stop serving, we stop imitating Christ, and by default, stop being true Christians. However, what qualifies service? After taking permission from your FOC (whom I feel you have shorthanded having expected his reply without asking for it in the first place), I suggest you withdraw, and take some time to remember the point of your service, and pray for your service. You can pray for your students, pray for the service, pray that God give you patience, and pray for your supervisor. In this time away from open service, you can also do some hidden service such as cleaning the church, call a child from church who has strayed, and so, continue service that is more internal, and healing to your self.
In my opinion, there is nothing greater then a life away from people, but at the same time, to help those people. for example, our fathers the monks, though they are withdrawn from people, are constantly with God, and asking him for the people. Had it not been for the hidden prayers of the monks, the devil would have taken over our world. You can serve in the same way as them.
This is only my opinion, and I think that you know more than me the importance of the spiritual guide. If you chose to withdraw for a little while, please remember my weakness in that time, and if you chose to continue to serve openly without taking a "break", then remember me still.
ReturnOrthodoxy
I'm in the same boat. People always say to respect the decision of the elders, and I agree with that. But when it comes to church, I feel no one is too old for correction and improvement. (the lead deacon in my church cant even read coptic.) You can only try to be humble and non judgmental so much, but theres limits.
As far as taking a break from the service, I don't see anything wrong with it. God isn't going to hate you for it. It's good for you if you want to rethink how you look at yourself and others. If you feel like you need a break, take a break.
Thanks for the advice, Peter.
I just want to warn you that this attitude towards leaders may be dangerous. Take it from me: Sometimes blind obedience is necessary. I learned that the hard way.
Good, finally a question which i do not see as having the prospect of turning into a bitter debate.
It is in my opinion that taking a break from service for your own spiritual life is not only allowed, but is encouraged. Our Master Himself often took time withdrawing into the deserts where he would have conversations with God. So He gives us this example of withdrawing so that you can speak with God more clearly.
It is in Christian philosophy to serve! We must at all times serve, because in the moment we stop serving, we stop imitating Christ, and by default, stop being true Christians. However, what qualifies service? After taking permission from your FOC (whom I feel you have shorthanded having expected his reply without asking for it in the first place), I suggest you withdraw, and take some time to remember the point of your service, and pray for your service. You can pray for your students, pray for the service, pray that God give you patience, and pray for your supervisor. In this time away from open service, you can also do some hidden service such as cleaning the church, call a child from church who has strayed, and so, continue service that is more internal, and healing to your self.
In my opinion, there is nothing greater then a life away from people, but at the same time, to help those people. for example, our fathers the monks, though they are withdrawn from people, are constantly with God, and asking him for the people. Had it not been for the hidden prayers of the monks, the devil would have taken over our world. You can serve in the same way as them.
This is only my opinion, and I think that you know more than me the importance of the spiritual guide. If you chose to withdraw for a little while, please remember my weakness in that time, and if you chose to continue to serve openly without taking a "break", then remember me still.
ReturnOrthodoxy
Thank you, RO.
I know my FoC will most likely disagree because he has disagreed in the past. If he happens to think it is a bad idea to stay away from the service for a while, I think I will really be between a rock and hard place! Pray for me, please.
Hello brother! Good evening I hope you have many more in Christ! I seen an extremely helpful quote at the Ottawa Church that I go to. It says, "it is better to obey than sacrifice". So take what you will from the quote ( I am not your Father of Confession). But be careful the devil is the father of lies and as (I think) I was told that anything on your own is dangerous. God bless. May the prayers of the saints be with you. Please pray for me.
(emphasis mine)
Thank you.
I think the part of your post I highlighted may be a major source of my problem.
YOU pray for me, please.
I think that it would be a good idea to get a break of that specific service (with a reason to not alarm others) but not pf service in general. This is just a temptation, a very strong one caused by our desire to serve. We get the feeling that we can do too much good things if we are just not controlled by others...but it just doesn't work that way. Being free to do anything you want gives birth to a feeling of pride, the root of all evils.
(emphasis mine)
Thanks, Mina.
I think you diagnosed my problem perfectly. Pray for me, please.
If my FoC permits me to take some time off from serving in Sunday School, should I tell my fellow servants the reason I will not be with them? What should I say? I don't want to create drama but I want my co-servants to know exactly what happened. . .
If my FoC permits me to take some time off from serving in Sunday School, should I tell my fellow servants the reason I will not be with them? What should I say? I don't want to create drama but I want my co-servants to know exactly what happened. . .
I personally would think that is is a question for your FOC to....only because most of the time he knows the people that you are serving with. Depending on the person, rebuking them of a problem can be good, not doing so can be also good.....sometimes just going away with a "reason" sends a stronger message to those people. or the problem can just be with us.
There is no such thing as "break from service". Did the Jesus, the Suffering Servant, take a break because he was suffering? In fact, through his suffering, His actions of wisdom have more meaning. He "will act wisely; he will be raised and lifted up and highly exalted." Isa 52:13. The amount of suffering of the Suffering Servant that Isaiah describes is exponentially worse than any suffering we will ever face in our lifetime. It's like comparing 0.00000000000001 to infinity. Just as a small number is considered negligible to infinity, so our suffering in this life is negligible compared to Jesus' suffering and to the glory we will receive. Suffering leads to glory. It was during Jesus' extreme suffering in Gethsemane, where His spirit was troubled to the point of death, where He began to taste the "cup" of suffering that He says "Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began." Jn 17:5. And St Paul stresses the point that suffering leads to glory: "Now if we are children, then we are heirs—heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory."
What does taking a break really mean? It does NOT mean you will have an easier time outside of the service. It means you no longer see the prize that comes with suffering. Look at John 16:20, 1 Cor 9:25 and Philippians 3:14.
There will never be a time when we don't have suffering. As human beings, we are ambassadors of God's creation. With that responsibility comes suffering. You can't stop being human and you can't stop being a steward of God's creation. Just like the Suffering Servant cannot stop suffering, so also we, imitating Jesus the Suffering Servant, cannot stop suffering. Can the priest in our church one day wake up and say "I'm taking a break from being a priest". The thought is ridiculous, yet Sunday school servants have no problem with the notion.
I'm not saying we don't need to re-energize ourselves. But we need to do this in addition to our service. Take the time in meditation and prayer and find out why you really feel the need to question the decision of leaders. But this doesn't come in lieu of your service. In addition, if you can examine yourself while you're still a Sunday School servant, you won't face the dilemma of informing your fellow servants. So you've corrected two problems by staying in the service.
George
I promise not to turn this into a bitter debate but I'm going to be the voice of a different view.
There is no such thing as "break from service". Did the Jesus, the Suffering Servant, take a break because he was suffering? In fact, through his suffering, His actions of wisdom have more meaning. He "will act wisely; he will be raised and lifted up and highly exalted." Isa 52:13. The amount of suffering of the Suffering Servant that Isaiah describes is exponentially worse than any suffering we will ever face in our lifetime. It's like comparing 0.00000000000001 to infinity. Just as a small number is considered negligible to infinity, so our suffering in this life is negligible compared to Jesus' suffering and to the glory we will receive. Suffering leads to glory. It was during Jesus' extreme suffering in Gethsemane, where His spirit was troubled to the point of death, where He began to taste the "cup" of suffering that He says "Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began." Jn 17:5. And St Paul stresses the point that suffering leads to glory: "Now if we are children, then we are heirs—heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory."
What does taking a break really mean? It does NOT mean you will have an easier time outside of the service. It means you no longer see the prize that comes with suffering. Look at John 16:20, 1 Cor 9:25 and Philippians 3:14.
There will never be a time when we don't have suffering. As human beings, we are ambassadors of God's creation. With that responsibility comes suffering. You can't stop being human and you can't stop being a steward of God's creation. Just like the Suffering Servant cannot stop suffering, so also we, imitating Jesus the Suffering Servant, cannot stop suffering. Can the priest in our church one day wake up and say "I'm taking a break from being a priest". The thought is ridiculous, yet Sunday school servants have no problem with the notion.
I'm not saying we don't need to re-energize ourselves. But we need to do this in addition to our service. Take the time in meditation and prayer and find out why you really feel the need to question the decision of leaders. But this doesn't come in lieu of your service. In addition, if you can examine yourself while you're still a Sunday School servant, you won't face the dilemma of informing your fellow servants. So you've corrected two problems by staying in the service.
George
Very well put. I would have never thought about it that way. lol
[quote author=peter_saad link=topic=12643.msg148423#msg148423 date=1323041569]
I'm in the same boat. People always say to respect the decision of the elders, and I agree with that. But when it comes to church, I feel no one is too old for correction and improvement. (the lead deacon in my church cant even read coptic.) You can only try to be humble and non judgmental so much, but theres limits.
As far as taking a break from the service, I don't see anything wrong with it. God isn't going to hate you for it. It's good for you if you want to rethink how you look at yourself and others. If you feel like you need a break, take a break.
Thanks for the advice, Peter.
I just want to warn you that this attitude towards leaders may be dangerous. Take it from me: Sometimes blind obedience is necessary. I learned that the hard way.
Yes, you're right. Don't get the wrong impression of me. I'm not that type of rebellious person who listens to no one, and only think that I'm right all the time.
Sometimes, when I see someone of authority doing something incorrectly(in church), I try to find an excuse for that person because I don't want to sin into thinking that I'm better than that person. But it's gotten to the point where it's hard to do that. Sometimes, you ARE right. But you are right, blind obedience can be important. (sometimes)
Thank you for your kind response.
I believe that your opinion is well taken, though I still have a question about it? The thing is, I do not advocate taking a break from service, but to realize that there are other places and other services to do. Let us not forget that Jesus is stronger than us, and he understands our frailty (and please do not misunderstand me, I am not invoking that "But Jesus is God" argument). What I am saying is that to withdraw from public service and work in the background, and try to rebuild your spirituality which you are risking by being a public servant.
For example, we have St. Isaac of Ninevah who although being bishop of Ninevah decided to withdraw from public service to live a life of asceticism. During this withdrawal, he spent time praying for his service and writing things for his children. He never forsake service, but simply changed the style of service which he performed. As a modern example, we have the Russian Saint, St. Theophan the Recluse who was Bishop of a huge diocese, and then changed his service to being abbot of Vysha Monastery, and finally, he withdrew to total seclusion. So again, these two provide examples of people who withdrew from society and from public service seeing that their spiritual life would blossom away from public service.
I do, however, take well your point that we cannot escape troubles and trials. They will come anywhere, and this is what makes a service so. However, I still see no reason why one cannot withdraw from being a Sunday school servant (even if just for a short while) and enter into a time where the main focus is personally spirituality, and praying for the youth which you serve.
There are always going to be two schools of thought on this topic, and one can see that very clearly by looking at the Paradise of the fathers, who had many opinions on this topic. They were almost split down the middle as to how they were to approach the topic of service. As an example of this split, let us take St. John the Dwarf who when asked if the constant visiting of the brothers annoyed him responded that though all of Scetis would come to him, he would not be disturbed, and that one candle can give flame to another while preserving its own flame (I am obviously paraphrasing now because I do not have my book handy). On the other hand, we have another father who said, "Though a candle gives light to all around it, yet its wick is burned out." So it honestly depends on the type of person you are. If you feel like it is taking a toll on your spirituality, then a change in service or a "break" from your current style of service may be in order. If not, then there is nothing to worry about.
In the end, "Love, and do what you will."- St. Augustine from the 7th Sermon on the First Letter of St. John. I should also mention that all thoughts need to be revealed to the FoC who can help discern whether they are of God or Satan.
Looking forward to your response.
ReturnOrthodoxy
I promise not to turn this into a bitter debate but I'm going to be the voice of a different view.
There is no such thing as "break from service". Did the Jesus, the Suffering Servant, take a break because he was suffering? In fact, through his suffering, His actions of wisdom have more meaning. He "will act wisely; he will be raised and lifted up and highly exalted." Isa 52:13. The amount of suffering of the Suffering Servant that Isaiah describes is exponentially worse than any suffering we will ever face in our lifetime. It's like comparing 0.00000000000001 to infinity. Just as a small number is considered negligible to infinity, so our suffering in this life is negligible compared to Jesus' suffering and to the glory we will receive. Suffering leads to glory. It was during Jesus' extreme suffering in Gethsemane, where His spirit was troubled to the point of death, where He began to taste the "cup" of suffering that He says "Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began." Jn 17:5. And St Paul stresses the point that suffering leads to glory: "Now if we are children, then we are heirs—heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory."
What does taking a break really mean? It does NOT mean you will have an easier time outside of the service. It means you no longer see the prize that comes with suffering. Look at John 16:20, 1 Cor 9:25 and Philippians 3:14.
There will never be a time when we don't have suffering. As human beings, we are ambassadors of God's creation. With that responsibility comes suffering. You can't stop being human and you can't stop being a steward of God's creation. Just like the Suffering Servant cannot stop suffering, so also we, imitating Jesus the Suffering Servant, cannot stop suffering. Can the priest in our church one day wake up and say "I'm taking a break from being a priest". The thought is ridiculous, yet Sunday school servants have no problem with the notion.
I'm not saying we don't need to re-energize ourselves. But we need to do this in addition to our service. Take the time in meditation and prayer and find out why you really feel the need to question the decision of leaders. But this doesn't come in lieu of your service. In addition, if you can examine yourself while you're still a Sunday School servant, you won't face the dilemma of informing your fellow servants. So you've corrected two problems by staying in the service.
George
Thanks for the advice, George.
I agree that servants shouldn't take a break because of the suffering but does that mean they cannot take a break at all?
Even priests get a few weeks of vacation each year (at least in my church).
I guess I shouldn't take a break because of the problems, or suffering. In any case, I wouldn't completely stop doing everything, I would still chant during the liturgy, help with the youth meetings, etc. But I need time away from the service that requires me to be a leader. I did not provide the details of the incident but if I did I am sure you would agree with me.
Keep me in your prayers, please.
[quote author=Andrew link=topic=12643.msg148427#msg148427 date=1323045038]
[quote author=peter_saad link=topic=12643.msg148423#msg148423 date=1323041569]
I'm in the same boat. People always say to respect the decision of the elders, and I agree with that. But when it comes to church, I feel no one is too old for correction and improvement. (the lead deacon in my church cant even read coptic.) You can only try to be humble and non judgmental so much, but theres limits.
As far as taking a break from the service, I don't see anything wrong with it. God isn't going to hate you for it. It's good for you if you want to rethink how you look at yourself and others. If you feel like you need a break, take a break.
Thanks for the advice, Peter.
I just want to warn you that this attitude towards leaders may be dangerous. Take it from me: Sometimes blind obedience is necessary. I learned that the hard way.
Yes, you're right. Don't get the wrong impression of me. I'm not that type of rebellious person who listens to no one, and only think that I'm right all the time.
Sometimes, when I see someone of authority doing something incorrectly(in church), I try to find an excuse for that person because I don't want to sin into thinking that I'm better than that person. But it's gotten to the point where it's hard to do that. Sometimes, you ARE right. But you are right, blind obedience can be important. (sometimes)
Don't worry, I don't think you're some kind of puffed up rebel. It's true sometimes we ARE right. In my case, I still feel I am. But we have to weigh how important it is to prove we are right with how it humiliates the people we serve with (especially when you're dealing with the Sunday School Steward, as I was!)
[quote author=peter_saad link=topic=12643.msg148461#msg148461 date=1323107439]
[quote author=Andrew link=topic=12643.msg148427#msg148427 date=1323045038]
[quote author=peter_saad link=topic=12643.msg148423#msg148423 date=1323041569]
I'm in the same boat. People always say to respect the decision of the elders, and I agree with that. But when it comes to church, I feel no one is too old for correction and improvement. (the lead deacon in my church cant even read coptic.) You can only try to be humble and non judgmental so much, but theres limits.
As far as taking a break from the service, I don't see anything wrong with it. God isn't going to hate you for it. It's good for you if you want to rethink how you look at yourself and others. If you feel like you need a break, take a break.
Thanks for the advice, Peter.
I just want to warn you that this attitude towards leaders may be dangerous. Take it from me: Sometimes blind obedience is necessary. I learned that the hard way.
Yes, you're right. Don't get the wrong impression of me. I'm not that type of rebellious person who listens to no one, and only think that I'm right all the time.
Sometimes, when I see someone of authority doing something incorrectly(in church), I try to find an excuse for that person because I don't want to sin into thinking that I'm better than that person. But it's gotten to the point where it's hard to do that. Sometimes, you ARE right. But you are right, blind obedience can be important. (sometimes)
Don't worry, I don't think you're some kind of puffed up rebel. It's true sometimes we ARE right. In my case, I still feel I am. But we have to weigh how important it is to prove we are right with how it humiliates the people we serve with (especially when you're dealing with the Sunday School Steward, as I was!)
Hehe thanks. But my goal in questioning authority is not about me or proving who's right or wrong. For example, if you see that the lead deacon (who is over 50 years old) say the wrong response or something, is it wrong to tell him that he is wrong? I can care less about the mroe trivial things, but when it comes to the church, I feel like no one is too old for correction and improvement. That's the thing about Egyptians. People are too sensitive and not humbled enough to take correction, regardless of who it comes from.
For example, I was teaching the Sunday school lesson yesterday, and one of my 5th grade students corrected something I said wrong. I wasn't embarassed or antything. In fact, I was happy that the kid was paying attention to my mistake and told me. Overall, I just don't see anything wrong with telling authority if they're doing something wrong.
[quote author=Andrew link=topic=12643.msg148466#msg148466 date=1323108052]
[quote author=peter_saad link=topic=12643.msg148461#msg148461 date=1323107439]
[quote author=Andrew link=topic=12643.msg148427#msg148427 date=1323045038]
[quote author=peter_saad link=topic=12643.msg148423#msg148423 date=1323041569]
I'm in the same boat. People always say to respect the decision of the elders, and I agree with that. But when it comes to church, I feel no one is too old for correction and improvement. (the lead deacon in my church cant even read coptic.) You can only try to be humble and non judgmental so much, but theres limits.
As far as taking a break from the service, I don't see anything wrong with it. God isn't going to hate you for it. It's good for you if you want to rethink how you look at yourself and others. If you feel like you need a break, take a break.
Thanks for the advice, Peter.
I just want to warn you that this attitude towards leaders may be dangerous. Take it from me: Sometimes blind obedience is necessary. I learned that the hard way.
Yes, you're right. Don't get the wrong impression of me. I'm not that type of rebellious person who listens to no one, and only think that I'm right all the time.
Sometimes, when I see someone of authority doing something incorrectly(in church), I try to find an excuse for that person because I don't want to sin into thinking that I'm better than that person. But it's gotten to the point where it's hard to do that. Sometimes, you ARE right. But you are right, blind obedience can be important. (sometimes)
Don't worry, I don't think you're some kind of puffed up rebel. It's true sometimes we ARE right. In my case, I still feel I am. But we have to weigh how important it is to prove we are right with how it humiliates the people we serve with (especially when you're dealing with the Sunday School Steward, as I was!)
Hehe thanks. But my goal in questioning authority is not about me or proving who's right or wrong. For example, if you see that the lead deacon (who is over 50 years old) say the wrong response or something, is it wrong to tell him that he is wrong? I can care less about the mroe trivial things, but when it comes to the church, I feel like no one is too old for correction and improvement. That's the thing about Egyptians. People are too sensitive and not humbled enough to take correction, regardless of who it comes from.
For example, I was teaching the Sunday school lesson yesterday, and one of my 5th grade students corrected something I said wrong. I wasn't embarassed or antything. In fact, I was happy that the kid was paying attention to my mistake and told me. Overall, I just don't see anything wrong with telling authority if they're doing something wrong.
Yeah, in your case when you are weighing what's more important, "The lead deacon's feelings or saying the correct responses?", I think you should choose saying the correct responses.
I guess it is just about how we approach it and putting the correct weight to each side of the issue. Pray for me, please, Peter.