[quote author=Faithfull Servant 1 link=topic=12647.msg148873#msg148873 date=1323661806] So are all the Theotokias chanted on 7 and 4?? cause thats where it gets its name... 7 theotokias and 4 odes
Yes, on Sunday, all of the theotokias are said.
On weekdays, just the respective one for that day (and a bit of the Sunday theotokia).
[quote author=Andrew link=topic=12647.msg148936#msg148936 date=1323727193] Do most churches pray all 7 theotokias on Saturday? I believe mine only prays the Sunday Theotokia. . .
This Kiahk, we chanted the Monday and Tuesday Theotokias last Saturday, we'll do the Wednesday and Thursday Theotokias next Saturday, the Friday and Saturday Theotokias the 3rd Saturday, and all of them on the last Saturday.
[quote author=JG link=topic=12647.msg148937#msg148937 date=1323727564] This Kiahk, we chanted the Monday and Tuesday Theotokias last Saturday, we'll do the Wednesday and Thursday Theotokias next Saturday, the Friday and Saturday Theotokias the 3rd Saturday, and all of them on the last Saturday.
But any monastery, you get the whole lot :D
If you do tasbeha this way, what time do you start and what time do you finish?
We started 7:30 last week and finished at 12:30 without any weekday theotokias, very few Coptic psalis, no commentaries/exposition, and few melismatic (Sunday) hymns - like 1 verse of Tenen, Shere ne Maria and Semoti. No Esmo epchois, no arihoo, no Teoi and so on.
If you think about, HCOC's takes about 13-14 hours without Sunday annual psalmody (add 6 hours there). And if you add the weekdays, that's another 2 hours. I read an article by Iona Borsai describing the music of the Syndoxastomen in Vespers. She had a foot note that in the Jan 1969 in Rod Al Farag - Shubra, she attended psalmodies with Mlm Farag Abdel Messeh, Shukry Abdel Sayed, and Fr Youhanna Abdel Messeh that ranged between 15 1/2 to 23 1/2 hours.
I'm not so sure the monasteries do everything either. Do they spend 15-24 hours in Psalmody?
No matter how you look at it, the majority of Kiahk Psalmody must be skipped if your service is 7pm-12pm (5 hours). Many churches spend less time. Am I missing something?
Last Saturday, we started Kiahk Vespers Praise at 10.30am. We finished at 5.30pm. We said everything that could be said: all the melismatic hymns, all of the psalis, all of the madayeh.
We then took a 30 min break and started Midnight Praise. We by no means did everything, finished at 11pm.
Yeah, it would take a crazy amount to do everything. Ive always thought that they rotated it in a monastery - i.e. the praise would always be running in the church, but monks come and go as their responsibilities and personal prayer times allow. I may be wrong.
What! You started Vespers praise at 10:30 AM?! And, went until 11PM?! God bless you. I believe (just a theory) that the Kiahk vigil was originally much shorter. In all likelihood people kept adding to it (especially all the stuff composed in Arabic). I highly doubt that someone sat down and wrote out the order of the Kiahk vigil intending it to be over 20 hours in length. I believe what's in the books now was added over time and it probably makes sense to pick and choose what to say with each vigil.
[quote author=JG link=topic=12647.msg149035#msg149035 date=1323882051] Last Saturday, we started Kiahk Vespers Praise at 10.30am. We finished at 5.30pm. We said everything that could be said: all the melismatic hymns, all of the psalis, all of the madayeh.
that is interesting. I don't think you need that much time. last time i did a full tasbeha like this (without the great tarh--we said the short one instead), we took around 3 1/2 hours.
[quote author=minatasgeel link=topic=12647.msg149047#msg149047 date=1323891834] that is interesting. I don't think you need that much time. last time i did a full tasbeha like this (without the great tarh--we said the short one instead), we took around 3 1/2 hours.
You must have been going very fast! We pressed on at a reasonable pace, but it took us a lot longer. I suppose it depends on some of the other hymns: whether you said the great Sherat (4-4-2-2) or the shorter Sherat (1-1-1-1). Whether you said Niethnos Tiro, if you completed all of the madayeh till the very end etc.
[quote author=JG link=topic=12647.msg149049#msg149049 date=1323892268] [quote author=minatasgeel link=topic=12647.msg149047#msg149047 date=1323891834] that is interesting. I don't think you need that much time. last time i did a full tasbeha like this (without the great tarh--we said the short one instead), we took around 3 1/2 hours.
You must have been going very fast! We pressed on at a reasonable pace, but it took us a lot longer. I suppose it depends on some of the other hymns: whether you said the great Sherat (4-4-2-2) or the shorter Sherat (1-1-1-1). Whether you said Niethnos Tiro, if you completed all of the madayeh till the very end etc.
it was like 4 yrs ago....a little long realy. so as i rmemeber we said: niethnos terro, 4th hoos with ef-eranaf and alli-el'asr, the 2 psalies (not the madeha), all the coptic tafaseer and 2 of the arabic (only cuz there wasn't much arabic readers), aretinthonti, sherat (1 1 1 1--i like it better because pilamapas sounds really nice in that way. ALSO it was recorded originally that way), the short tarh and o penshois. the tafaseer were fast because they were solos of people who knew it really well.
[quote author=minatasgeel link=topic=12647.msg149047#msg149047 date=1323891834] it was like 4 yrs ago....a little long realy. so as i rmemeber we said: niethnos terro, 4th hoos with ef-eranaf and alli-el'asr, the 2 psalies (not the madeha), all the coptic tafaseer and 2 of the arabic (only cuz there wasn't much arabic readers), aretinthonti, sherat (1 1 1 1--i like it better because pilamapas sounds really nice in that way. ALSO it was recorded originally that way), the short tarh and o penshois. the tafaseer were fast because they were solos of people who knew it really well.
I think the Arabic must have made a difference then.
Also, we didn't say Eferanaf during Vespers Praise, but we did during Midnight. I'm not sure if that was a case of rites or of time.
Man, some day we need to have a tasbeha.org tasbeha. We all meet up, and say EVERYTHING. It would be amazing ;D
[quote [email protected] link=topic=12647.msg149045#msg149045 date=1323891194] What! You started Vespers praise at 10:30 AM?! And, went until 11PM?! God bless you. I believe (just a theory) that the Kiahk vigil was originally much shorter. In all likelihood people kept adding to it (especially all the stuff composed in Arabic). I highly doubt that someone sat down and wrote out the order of the Kiahk vigil intending it to be over 20 hours in length. I believe what's in the books now was added over time and it probably makes sense to pick and choose what to say with each vigil.
From a practical point of view, it must be done so!
But if I had the time, I would love to do the whole thing, complete. I've heard it said that praise is the highest form of prayer, and during just about ever tasbeha, particularly in the early hours of the morning that I've attended, I've certainly felt at a much higher level of spirituality than anywhere else I've experienced. Would be great to be able to do it all the time!
count me in! 'Man, some day we need to have a tasbeha.org tasbeha. We all meet up, and say EVERYTHING. It would be amazing ' was yr mega tasbeha in yr old church or yr new church? (so i know which church to be jealous of!) ;)
[quote author=mabsoota link=topic=12647.msg149060#msg149060 date=1323896291] count me in! 'Man, some day we need to have a tasbeha.org tasbeha. We all meet up, and say EVERYTHING. It would be amazing ' was yr mega tasbeha in yr old church or yr new church? (so i know which church to be jealous of!) ;)
[quote author=JG link=topic=12647.msg149062#msg149062 date=1323896571] [quote author=mabsoota link=topic=12647.msg149060#msg149060 date=1323896291] count me in! 'Man, some day we need to have a tasbeha.org tasbeha. We all meet up, and say EVERYTHING. It would be amazing ' was yr mega tasbeha in yr old church or yr new church? (so i know which church to be jealous of!) ;)
The new one ;D I wish it was the old one too :)
ALLL are welcomed to Saint Mark's Church Jersey City, NJ, USA........ :D
It turned out that i wasnot the only one confused about kiahk tasbeha... Even though I still donot get each rite but I have a good general idea of what is going on...
I WOULD LOVE TOO but I doubt I can come... :( Where do most of you guys live?
[quote author=mabsoota link=topic=12647.msg149060#msg149060 date=1323896291] count me in! 'Man, some day we need to have a tasbeha.org tasbeha. We all meet up, and say EVERYTHING. It would be amazing ' was yr mega tasbeha in yr old church or yr new church? (so i know which church to be jealous of!) ;)
A couple of years ago I prayed tasbeha with a tasbeha.org member!!! ;D
[quote author=minatasgeel link=topic=12647.msg149130#msg149130 date=1324013827] [quote author=TITL link=topic=12647.msg149116#msg149116 date=1323987681] A couple of years ago I prayed tasbeha with a tasbeha.org member!!! ;D
[quote author=TITL link=topic=12647.msg149147#msg149147 date=1324060477] [quote author=minatasgeel link=topic=12647.msg149130#msg149130 date=1324013827] [quote author=TITL link=topic=12647.msg149116#msg149116 date=1323987681] A couple of years ago I prayed tasbeha with a tasbeha.org member!!! ;D
Comments
So are all the Theotokias chanted on 7 and 4?? cause thats where it gets its name... 7 theotokias and 4 odes
Yes, on Sunday, all of the theotokias are said.
On weekdays, just the respective one for that day (and a bit of the Sunday theotokia).
Still working on the list, sorry for the delay.
Do most churches pray all 7 theotokias on Saturday? I believe mine only prays the Sunday Theotokia. . .
This Kiahk, we chanted the Monday and Tuesday Theotokias last Saturday, we'll do the Wednesday and Thursday Theotokias next Saturday, the Friday and Saturday Theotokias the 3rd Saturday, and all of them on the last Saturday.
But any monastery, you get the whole lot :D
This Kiahk, we chanted the Monday and Tuesday Theotokias last Saturday, we'll do the Wednesday and Thursday Theotokias next Saturday, the Friday and Saturday Theotokias the 3rd Saturday, and all of them on the last Saturday.
But any monastery, you get the whole lot :D
If you do tasbeha this way, what time do you start and what time do you finish?
We started 7:30 last week and finished at 12:30 without any weekday theotokias, very few Coptic psalis, no commentaries/exposition, and few melismatic (Sunday) hymns - like 1 verse of Tenen, Shere ne Maria and Semoti. No Esmo epchois, no arihoo, no Teoi and so on.
If you think about, HCOC's takes about 13-14 hours without Sunday annual psalmody (add 6 hours there). And if you add the weekdays, that's another 2 hours. I read an article by Iona Borsai describing the music of the Syndoxastomen in Vespers. She had a foot note that in the Jan 1969 in Rod Al Farag - Shubra, she attended psalmodies with Mlm Farag Abdel Messeh, Shukry Abdel Sayed, and Fr Youhanna Abdel Messeh that ranged between 15 1/2 to 23 1/2 hours.
I'm not so sure the monasteries do everything either. Do they spend 15-24 hours in Psalmody?
No matter how you look at it, the majority of Kiahk Psalmody must be skipped if your service is 7pm-12pm (5 hours). Many churches spend less time. Am I missing something?
We then took a 30 min break and started Midnight Praise. We by no means did everything, finished at 11pm.
Yeah, it would take a crazy amount to do everything. Ive always thought that they rotated it in a monastery - i.e. the praise would always be running in the church, but monks come and go as their responsibilities and personal prayer times allow. I may be wrong.
Last Saturday, we started Kiahk Vespers Praise at 10.30am. We finished at 5.30pm. We said everything that could be said: all the melismatic hymns, all of the psalis, all of the madayeh.
that is interesting. I don't think you need that much time. last time i did a full tasbeha like this (without the great tarh--we said the short one instead), we took around 3 1/2 hours.
that is interesting. I don't think you need that much time. last time i did a full tasbeha like this (without the great tarh--we said the short one instead), we took around 3 1/2 hours.
You must have been going very fast! We pressed on at a reasonable pace, but it took us a lot longer. I suppose it depends on some of the other hymns: whether you said the great Sherat (4-4-2-2) or the shorter Sherat (1-1-1-1). Whether you said Niethnos Tiro, if you completed all of the madayeh till the very end etc.
[quote author=minatasgeel link=topic=12647.msg149047#msg149047 date=1323891834]
that is interesting. I don't think you need that much time. last time i did a full tasbeha like this (without the great tarh--we said the short one instead), we took around 3 1/2 hours.
You must have been going very fast! We pressed on at a reasonable pace, but it took us a lot longer. I suppose it depends on some of the other hymns: whether you said the great Sherat (4-4-2-2) or the shorter Sherat (1-1-1-1). Whether you said Niethnos Tiro, if you completed all of the madayeh till the very end etc.
it was like 4 yrs ago....a little long realy. so as i rmemeber we said: niethnos terro, 4th hoos with ef-eranaf and alli-el'asr, the 2 psalies (not the madeha), all the coptic tafaseer and 2 of the arabic (only cuz there wasn't much arabic readers), aretinthonti, sherat (1 1 1 1--i like it better because pilamapas sounds really nice in that way. ALSO it was recorded originally that way), the short tarh and o penshois. the tafaseer were fast because they were solos of people who knew it really well.
it was like 4 yrs ago....a little long realy. so as i rmemeber we said: niethnos terro, 4th hoos with ef-eranaf and alli-el'asr, the 2 psalies (not the madeha), all the coptic tafaseer and 2 of the arabic (only cuz there wasn't much arabic readers), aretinthonti, sherat (1 1 1 1--i like it better because pilamapas sounds really nice in that way. ALSO it was recorded originally that way), the short tarh and o penshois. the tafaseer were fast because they were solos of people who knew it really well.
I think the Arabic must have made a difference then.
Also, we didn't say Eferanaf during Vespers Praise, but we did during Midnight. I'm not sure if that was a case of rites or of time.
Man, some day we need to have a tasbeha.org tasbeha. We all meet up, and say EVERYTHING. It would be amazing ;D
What! You started Vespers praise at 10:30 AM?! And, went until 11PM?! God bless you. I believe (just a theory) that the Kiahk vigil was originally much shorter. In all likelihood people kept adding to it (especially all the stuff composed in Arabic). I highly doubt that someone sat down and wrote out the order of the Kiahk vigil intending it to be over 20 hours in length. I believe what's in the books now was added over time and it probably makes sense to pick and choose what to say with each vigil.
From a practical point of view, it must be done so!
But if I had the time, I would love to do the whole thing, complete. I've heard it said that praise is the highest form of prayer, and during just about ever tasbeha, particularly in the early hours of the morning that I've attended, I've certainly felt at a much higher level of spirituality than anywhere else I've experienced. Would be great to be able to do it all the time!
'Man, some day we need to have a tasbeha.org tasbeha. We all meet up, and say EVERYTHING. It would be amazing '
was yr mega tasbeha in yr old church or yr new church? (so i know which church to be jealous of!)
;)
count me in!
'Man, some day we need to have a tasbeha.org tasbeha. We all meet up, and say EVERYTHING. It would be amazing '
was yr mega tasbeha in yr old church or yr new church? (so i know which church to be jealous of!)
;)
The new one ;D
I wish it was the old one too :)
[quote author=mabsoota link=topic=12647.msg149060#msg149060 date=1323896291]
count me in!
'Man, some day we need to have a tasbeha.org tasbeha. We all meet up, and say EVERYTHING. It would be amazing '
was yr mega tasbeha in yr old church or yr new church? (so i know which church to be jealous of!)
;)
The new one ;D
I wish it was the old one too :)
ALLL are welcomed to Saint Mark's Church Jersey City, NJ, USA........ :D
I WOULD LOVE TOO but I doubt I can come... :( Where do most of you guys live?
i am in uk.
:)
count me in!
'Man, some day we need to have a tasbeha.org tasbeha. We all meet up, and say EVERYTHING. It would be amazing '
was yr mega tasbeha in yr old church or yr new church? (so i know which church to be jealous of!)
;)
A couple of years ago I prayed tasbeha with a tasbeha.org member!!! ;D
A couple of years ago I prayed tasbeha with a tasbeha.org member!!! ;D
you might pray with another one soon.
[quote author=TITL link=topic=12647.msg149116#msg149116 date=1323987681]
A couple of years ago I prayed tasbeha with a tasbeha.org member!!! ;D
you might pray with another one soon.
Oh yeah, about that... I don't think I'm going.
I bet I just made your day. :P
[quote author=minatasgeel link=topic=12647.msg149130#msg149130 date=1324013827]
[quote author=TITL link=topic=12647.msg149116#msg149116 date=1323987681]
A couple of years ago I prayed tasbeha with a tasbeha.org member!!! ;D
you might pray with another one soon.
Oh yeah, about that... I don't think I'm going.
I bet I just made your day. :P
yupppppp