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Oriental orthodox punchup in Bethlehem
I am truly fed up and saddened by this.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2079328/Priests-brawl-Bethlehems-Church-Nativity-clergy-fight-Christmas-cleaning.html
Twice a year this goes on! Its stupid!! This animosity between EO and OO has to end!! Enough already!
What's wrong with us?
You cannot love God, and hate your brother.
I know what the problem is. The EO look at the OO as if we are heretics. Therefore, its as if they are defending the Church against imposters, or villains. This is the ONLY reason why priests would attack another priest. They do not recognize our sacraments, our priesthood, our legitimacy to even be in these Churches.
This has to end!
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2079328/Priests-brawl-Bethlehems-Church-Nativity-clergy-fight-Christmas-cleaning.html
Twice a year this goes on! Its stupid!! This animosity between EO and OO has to end!! Enough already!
What's wrong with us?
You cannot love God, and hate your brother.
I know what the problem is. The EO look at the OO as if we are heretics. Therefore, its as if they are defending the Church against imposters, or villains. This is the ONLY reason why priests would attack another priest. They do not recognize our sacraments, our priesthood, our legitimacy to even be in these Churches.
This has to end!
Comments
The Armenians who are seen scuffling are not priests, nor even monks, but mostly teenage 'deacons'.
The reason is because the Greeks and Armenians have certain rights over certain areas of the Church which are formalised by law. The Greeks appear to always be trying to extend their area of control and this causes the conflict. It is not theological, but it is rather shameful.
The Armenians who are seen scuffling are not priests, nor even monks, but mostly teenage 'deacons'.
But you agree, nevertheless, that there is clearly a deep rooted lack of respect between the EO and OO? Had they had any respect for each other's denomination, this wouldn't have happened. The easter "punch up" , unfortunately was with a Greek EO priest. In the BBC interview he talked about his rights :"Although Christ did teach us to turn the other cheek, we also have rights".
This animosity has gone far enough.
I really beg you, Fr. Peter, in your capacity to pray and help remove these divisions between us and them. This is awful.
The lack of respect i've seen towards my own denomination by protestants and catholics is awful; and vice versa. I've seen Greek EO throw out Catholics from their churches (physically throw them out) and accuse them (simple catholic tourists in Greece) of being heretical. They were just in the Church taking pictures.
This disunity is not from God.
In the middle of the 3rd century, when all this started, there was limited communication for each Church's position to be explained clearly. Divisions resulted from semantics and misunderstandings. Indeed, some resulted from sheer jealousy and cruelty. But right now, in the era of communication, we ought to be focusing on unity and building bridges with our fellow Christians. There is no excuse now for us to remain divided.
The Catholics also have this mindset that unless you are Catholic, you are not saved. They think we are all heretical because we are not under the Bishop of Rome. Their regard, the face they show us is awful. Its very hostile indeed. Its a complete lack of respect towards the orthodox faith.
I am baffled. I would not care if an orthodox became a Catholic, as I feel its a Church of sacraments. But to them, we are not the 2 lungs of Christ as their previous Pontiff had stated. This is just plain hurtful.
Do you not also think that if our priests are beaten and threatened by EO clergy, that this will not be mirrored or echoed on us, the simple OO congregation?? Of course it will.
Not all EO people hate us, that's true... it seems to be just some religious communities in the EO - but you cannot ignore this Father.
If your entire body is fine, yet you have cancer of the pancreas, you cannot just ignore it and be happy with the other members of the body that are doing fine for themselves. You cannot just say: "Well, thank God my heart is OK, my lungs are OK and my teeth are OK.. unfortunately the pancreas has severe cancer, but the good news is that the rest of my body is working well".
Its the small minorities that cause these problems - that affect the entire body of Christ.
For me, I think the Church's priority has to be first Unity with other Churches. If not unity, then at least mutual respect and understanding. Once this is achieved, then we can worry about other issues.. but this has gone on long enough.
Don't forget that there have been fights between OO priests and monks as well over where a chair was placed.
I agree with you, it is awful and we must do what we can. I have many people from an EO background in my own little congregation and we get on as a true family. But news articles such as today's show Orthodox Christians in a very bad light.
Don't forget that there have been fights between OO priests and monks as well over where a chair was placed.
If this is any assistance for you, in your blessed ministry, PLEASE can you quote this Bible passage to any OO priest who behaves in this way:
13 Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Were you baptized in the name of Paul? 14 I thank God that I did not baptize any of you except Crispus and Gaius, 15 so no one can say that you were baptized in my name. 16 (Yes, I also baptized the household of Stephanas; beyond that, I don’t remember if I baptized anyone else.) 17 For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel—not with wisdom and eloquence, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power.
* Was Christ Divided?
* Was Paul Crucified for you?
* Were you baptized in the name of Paul??
They have to get to grips with this! Its awful. They are acting as if they baptized their flock in their own names. There's a huge amount of jealousy, which leads to animosity, amongst the priesthood (even servants!)
Its awful. I don't know if priests actually realize how destructive their personalities can be.
I remember, i was asked once by a priest from one Church, to create a database of all the youth's addresses and emails in France. He asked me to contact each priest to get the list. THe idea was that if there were any conferences or trips to a monastery, it would be "nice" to keep the small population of youth informed.
So, I call this one priest and tell him: "Fr. .. This abouna asked me to ask you for the names/email addresses of the youth under 25. Do you have this list?"
The priest responds: "Huh!!!! YOU ARE GOING TO TAKE MY CHILDREN AWAY FROM ME!!!!"
I thought this man was joking.. so, I don't say anything. Then his wife picks up the phone and tells me that what I'm asking for has caused him great distress.
Remarkable.
Why don't they just baptize us in their names and get it over with!!!???
Do they have ANY idea how SMALL and fragile our communities are?? There is already NO or ZERO fellowship in the COC in France, and then this priest has to make it even more non-existent??
I'm amazed!! This is shocking!
Being Orthodox is already hard as it is outside Egypt, and God's given us these priests to make it worse; and the WORST part is this: they complain if you end up in a protestant Church, or a Catholic Church in France because you may have found some kind of spiritual fellowship.
Its sickening.
✞✞✞
Christ says, "By this, all men will know you are my disciples, if you love one another." (John 13:35) If there is no love for one another, we are not his disciples. If we are not his disciples, what daring to we have to stand before his altar and offer a sacrifice to him? Are we not just then being fully carnal have no part in God?
This is exactly what fuels people like Dawkins and Hitchens! Our children will see this and agree with them, and there blood will be on our hands.
I am disappointed by these acts, and I am sure that they will not be taken lightly by the Master.
ReturnOrthodoxy
http://www.christian-dogma.com/vb/showthread.php?t=167038
GBU
Scandalous bad example :'(
http://www.christian-dogma.com/vb/showthread.php?t=167038
GBU
If I had watched that as a atheist, I would have died an atheist.