I don't know the Coptic view, but I can certainly give you mine. This gift is almost extinct. The Holy Spirit while it does allow for all the gifts mentioned in the New Testament has almost moved and concentrated all its work on one specific power; that is to convict the souls of people. I see no benefit of the gift of speaking in tongues now. We have translators, we have preachers of many native tongues. I don't see how this is a gift that is needed. St. Paul listed this gift last, and put many restrictions concerning the amount of translators needed in order for someone to speak in tongues (2 translators). This need for 2 translators leads me to believe that St. Paul himself was not very fond of this idea of speaking in "heavenly" tongues.
I had a woman meet me at a coffee shop. She was Pentacostal so she asked me, "Have you been born again?" I replied saying, "Question is, are you born again?" She then spoke in "tongues" to me. So I asked her, "Where is your translator?" She said she had none. I told her, "If you were not too busy worrying about what language you speak, and read your bible in your native language, you would know that your speaking in tongues is absolutely useless without a translator." We got into a debate and she left saying, "You don't believe the bible."
This foolishness it what turns people away from Christianity. They see such stupidity and are disgusted thinking that the God we worship is the genie of Benny Hinn, or the Voodoo god of such people of the above mentioned woman.
To conclude, the Holy Spirit does not need to make people speak weird languages for it's presence to be known. This ability had a purpose before, but now there is no need for it, so the Holy Spirit is not going to just do it for fun. You know those people who are converting to the faith after years of sin? Yes... those people are the speech of tongues which the Holy Spirit gives.
For a more comprehensive idea of this gift (that is other than my own personal idea of what it is, and why it is not as heard of now) you can read this explanation by the Golden Mouth.
I don't know the Coptic view, but I can certainly give you mine. This gift is almost extinct. The Holy Spirit while it does allow for all the gifts mentioned in the New Testament has almost moved and concentrated all its work on one specific power; that is to convict the souls of people. I see no benefit of the gift of speaking in tongues now. We have translators, we have preachers of many native tongues. I don't see how this is a gift that is needed. St. Paul listed this gift last, and put many restrictions concerning the amount of translators needed in order for someone to speak in tongues (2 translators). This need for 2 translators leads me to believe that St. Paul himself was not very fond of this idea of speaking in "heavenly" tongues.
I had a woman meet me at a coffee shop. She was Pentacostal so she asked me, "Have you been born again?" I replied saying, "Question is, are you born again?" She then spoke in "tongues" to me. So I asked her, "Where is your translator?" She said she had none. I told her, "If you were not too busy worrying about what language you speak, and read your bible in your native language, you would know that your speaking in tongues is absolutely useless without a translator." We got into a debate and she left saying, "You don't believe the bible."
This foolishness it what turns people away from Christianity. They see such stupidity and are disgusted thinking that the God we worship is the genie of Benny Hinn, or the Voodoo god of such people of the above mentioned woman.
To conclude, the Holy Spirit does not need to make people speak weird languages for it's presence to be known. This ability had a purpose before, but now there is no need for it, so the Holy Spirit is not going to just do it for fun. You know those people who are converting to the faith after years of sin? Yes... those people are the speech of tongues which the Holy Spirit gives.
For a more comprehensive idea of this gift (that is other than my own personal idea of what it is, and why it is not as heard of now) you can read this explanation by the Golden Mouth.
ReturnOrthodoxy
I agree with ReturnOrthodoxy on this one.
I was quite - and still am to some extent, heavily involved with such charismatic groups. You are right, once you dismiss this as a trait of the Holy Spirit, then they will get EXTREMELY OFFENDED.
ReturnOrthodoxy raises some good points about the effect of this way of praying on other Christians.
This has done more damage than good.
Here are some stories from the people I've known and the impact this "charisma" has had on their lives.
I cannot give full names, as its personal.
Case 1. Mr P.
Profile: a devout catholic by upbringing, and a member of a large charismatic catholic group.
P now is the exact opposite and has joined the traditionalist group. According to him, this charisma is not from God, and there was a time where it was fun, but it has no spiritual edification or value (i guess as the Bible states, if it does not edify the Church, then shut up).
He is now against it.
Case 2: Miss N
Profile: Catholic originally, but never practiced, until she met other charismatic christians.
She came to Church BECAUSE she was taken in by the charismatic prayer. She lived her whole life away from the Church and came back during her mid 20's. She now feels that such prayer is pointless and people seem to "force it on" then even let it come naturally. She still loves God, and loves the Church, but does not see the need for such prayer in her life. It adds nothing to her.
Case 3: J
Profile: DID NOT KNOW GOD, NEVER KNEW GOD, FAMILY DOES NOT KNOW GOD, NO ONE AROUND HER KNOWS GOD - ya3ni... Certified Godless.
A very lovely, pretty young lady, who did not know God at all. She began showing interest in Church after a friend who was a Christian spoke to her about Christ. He took her to a Charismatic prayer group and she was horrified if not totally put off.
She left the church completely after seeing this. She's now a Christian, but the charismatic environment didn't add anything, if anything, it was more destructive than good.
Case 4: Miss S.
Profile: This is a young girl (a bit snobby), born Catholic, raised Catholic and practicing.
S went to Medjugorje on a "spiritual" trip with her Catholic friends. The group that organized it was from a community called "Saint Jean". She was HORRIFIED by this (to say the least).
The priest (a member of the nuthouse Community Saint Jean) tried to explain to her that these are gifts of the Holy Spirit, worked. She calmed down and accepted that a priest's word is final and that the Church speaks through the priesthood, and the priest knows best.
For me, the worst case was Miss S. All of a sudden, you feel alienated from the Church that raised you. This isn't good... and its not as if these charismas are bringing anything to the table, they are not. Its bringing EDUCATED, smart, intelligent people to listen to others speak gibberish.
I have not yet seen a case where someone has been fond of this charisma.
Its a contentious issue amongst Christians, even with the Coptic Orthodox Church.. i know many people who still practice this speaking in tongues. They are truly Christian in nature, very charismatic in their prayers, yet so attached to this method of praying as if it were a sacrament in itself.
I appreciate your answers but I am not really familiar with the concept. Is it like they people's choice to start speaking in tongues or does it just start when you are praying or what? Please elaborate more.
Anyone can speak with these Protestant tongues. It is a learned skill. (That I do not encourage anyone to try).
If I wanted I could 'speak in tongues' right now. But I do not want to and reject the idea that it is a spiritual gift at all. I believe that at best it is a psychological practice and at worst a demonic one. The vast majority are simply psychological and a self-delusion.
The gift of tongues is the least of the gifts, according to St Paul. It was used to spread the Gospel. Around 13 different languages were spoken in palestine at the time of the apostles, it would have taken much longer but through the gift of speaking in tongues everyone heard "in their own tongue".
Comments
I don't know the Coptic view, but I can certainly give you mine. This gift is almost extinct. The Holy Spirit while it does allow for all the gifts mentioned in the New Testament has almost moved and concentrated all its work on one specific power; that is to convict the souls of people. I see no benefit of the gift of speaking in tongues now. We have translators, we have preachers of many native tongues. I don't see how this is a gift that is needed. St. Paul listed this gift last, and put many restrictions concerning the amount of translators needed in order for someone to speak in tongues (2 translators). This need for 2 translators leads me to believe that St. Paul himself was not very fond of this idea of speaking in "heavenly" tongues.
I had a woman meet me at a coffee shop. She was Pentacostal so she asked me, "Have you been born again?" I replied saying, "Question is, are you born again?" She then spoke in "tongues" to me. So I asked her, "Where is your translator?" She said she had none. I told her, "If you were not too busy worrying about what language you speak, and read your bible in your native language, you would know that your speaking in tongues is absolutely useless without a translator." We got into a debate and she left saying, "You don't believe the bible."
This foolishness it what turns people away from Christianity. They see such stupidity and are disgusted thinking that the God we worship is the genie of Benny Hinn, or the Voodoo god of such people of the above mentioned woman.
To conclude, the Holy Spirit does not need to make people speak weird languages for it's presence to be known. This ability had a purpose before, but now there is no need for it, so the Holy Spirit is not going to just do it for fun. You know those people who are converting to the faith after years of sin? Yes... those people are the speech of tongues which the Holy Spirit gives.
For a more comprehensive idea of this gift (that is other than my own personal idea of what it is, and why it is not as heard of now) you can read this explanation by the Golden Mouth.
ReturnOrthodoxy
Well,
I don't know the Coptic view, but I can certainly give you mine. This gift is almost extinct. The Holy Spirit while it does allow for all the gifts mentioned in the New Testament has almost moved and concentrated all its work on one specific power; that is to convict the souls of people. I see no benefit of the gift of speaking in tongues now. We have translators, we have preachers of many native tongues. I don't see how this is a gift that is needed. St. Paul listed this gift last, and put many restrictions concerning the amount of translators needed in order for someone to speak in tongues (2 translators). This need for 2 translators leads me to believe that St. Paul himself was not very fond of this idea of speaking in "heavenly" tongues.
I had a woman meet me at a coffee shop. She was Pentacostal so she asked me, "Have you been born again?" I replied saying, "Question is, are you born again?" She then spoke in "tongues" to me. So I asked her, "Where is your translator?" She said she had none. I told her, "If you were not too busy worrying about what language you speak, and read your bible in your native language, you would know that your speaking in tongues is absolutely useless without a translator." We got into a debate and she left saying, "You don't believe the bible."
This foolishness it what turns people away from Christianity. They see such stupidity and are disgusted thinking that the God we worship is the genie of Benny Hinn, or the Voodoo god of such people of the above mentioned woman.
To conclude, the Holy Spirit does not need to make people speak weird languages for it's presence to be known. This ability had a purpose before, but now there is no need for it, so the Holy Spirit is not going to just do it for fun. You know those people who are converting to the faith after years of sin? Yes... those people are the speech of tongues which the Holy Spirit gives.
For a more comprehensive idea of this gift (that is other than my own personal idea of what it is, and why it is not as heard of now) you can read this explanation by the Golden Mouth.
ReturnOrthodoxy
I agree with ReturnOrthodoxy on this one.
I was quite - and still am to some extent, heavily involved with such charismatic groups. You are right, once you dismiss this as a trait of the Holy Spirit, then they will get EXTREMELY OFFENDED.
ReturnOrthodoxy raises some good points about the effect of this way of praying on other Christians.
This has done more damage than good.
Here are some stories from the people I've known and the impact this "charisma" has had on their lives.
I cannot give full names, as its personal.
Case 1. Mr P.
Profile: a devout catholic by upbringing, and a member of a large charismatic catholic group.
P now is the exact opposite and has joined the traditionalist group. According to him, this charisma is not from God, and there was a time where it was fun, but it has no spiritual edification or value (i guess as the Bible states, if it does not edify the Church, then shut up).
He is now against it.
Case 2: Miss N
Profile: Catholic originally, but never practiced, until she met other charismatic christians.
She came to Church BECAUSE she was taken in by the charismatic prayer. She lived her whole life away from the Church and came back during her mid 20's. She now feels that such prayer is pointless and people seem to "force it on" then even let it come naturally. She still loves God, and loves the Church, but does not see the need for such prayer in her life. It adds nothing to her.
Case 3: J
Profile: DID NOT KNOW GOD, NEVER KNEW GOD, FAMILY DOES NOT KNOW GOD, NO ONE AROUND HER KNOWS GOD - ya3ni... Certified Godless.
A very lovely, pretty young lady, who did not know God at all. She began showing interest in Church after a friend who was a Christian spoke to her about Christ. He took her to a Charismatic prayer group and she was horrified if not totally put off.
She left the church completely after seeing this. She's now a Christian, but the charismatic environment didn't add anything, if anything, it was more destructive than good.
Case 4: Miss S.
Profile: This is a young girl (a bit snobby), born Catholic, raised Catholic and practicing.
S went to Medjugorje on a "spiritual" trip with her Catholic friends. The group that organized it was from a community called "Saint Jean". She was HORRIFIED by this (to say the least).
The priest (a member of the nuthouse Community Saint Jean) tried to explain to her that these are gifts of the Holy Spirit, worked. She calmed down and accepted that a priest's word is final and that the Church speaks through the priesthood, and the priest knows best.
For me, the worst case was Miss S. All of a sudden, you feel alienated from the Church that raised you. This isn't good... and its not as if these charismas are bringing anything to the table, they are not. Its bringing EDUCATED, smart, intelligent people to listen to others speak gibberish.
I have not yet seen a case where someone has been fond of this charisma.
Its a contentious issue amongst Christians, even with the Coptic Orthodox Church.. i know many people who still practice this speaking in tongues. They are truly Christian in nature, very charismatic in their prayers, yet so attached to this method of praying as if it were a sacrament in itself.
If I wanted I could 'speak in tongues' right now. But I do not want to and reject the idea that it is a spiritual gift at all. I believe that at best it is a psychological practice and at worst a demonic one. The vast majority are simply psychological and a self-delusion.