Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Categories
- All Categories 13.8K
- General Category 10.9K
- General Announcements 184
- Faith Issues 3.4K
- Coptic Orthodox Church 2.5K
- Personal Issues 1.4K
- Prayer Requests 423
- Random Issues 1.8K
- Introductions 294
- Non-Orthodox Inquiries 232
- Youth Corner 606
- Hymns 2.5K
- Hymns Discussion 2.5K
- Technicial Difficulties 368
- Technical Topics 368
Using Left Hand in Christianity
Hello
Is there a problem for us using our left hand?
I saw a video of a muslim cleric/shiekh explaining that satan, in Islam, eats with his left hand ; therefore muslims are obliged to eat with their right.I thought this video was quite amusing; until I went to the Coptic Orthodox Church.
I went to have the Holy Communion once, and was carrying my son in my left hand (its the most stable). The priest asked me to carry him on my right hand.
What is this??? What kind of spirituality is this???
Then, on another occasion, a small kid went up to take some bread from the priest at the end of the liturgy and he took it with his left hand. The priest then took the microphone and asked everyone to teach their kids to receive the blessed bread with their right hands.
Is this really our faith? Does this have anything to do with Christianity?? Isn't this going a bit too far????
Should the priest be concerned about these things? To be honest with you, it really makes our faith look stupid (at least for those who do not understand it or are new to it).
I'm sure someone will come and explain to us the spiritual meaning behind receiving the bread with their left hand, but even if there is a spiritual meaning - if someone is left handed, does it really matter to the point of stopping the person from communion???
Is there a problem for us using our left hand?
I saw a video of a muslim cleric/shiekh explaining that satan, in Islam, eats with his left hand ; therefore muslims are obliged to eat with their right.I thought this video was quite amusing; until I went to the Coptic Orthodox Church.
I went to have the Holy Communion once, and was carrying my son in my left hand (its the most stable). The priest asked me to carry him on my right hand.
What is this??? What kind of spirituality is this???
Then, on another occasion, a small kid went up to take some bread from the priest at the end of the liturgy and he took it with his left hand. The priest then took the microphone and asked everyone to teach their kids to receive the blessed bread with their right hands.
Is this really our faith? Does this have anything to do with Christianity?? Isn't this going a bit too far????
Should the priest be concerned about these things? To be honest with you, it really makes our faith look stupid (at least for those who do not understand it or are new to it).
I'm sure someone will come and explain to us the spiritual meaning behind receiving the bread with their left hand, but even if there is a spiritual meaning - if someone is left handed, does it really matter to the point of stopping the person from communion???
Comments
Interesting question.
please check out this video:
there are loads of versions of it on youtube, but this particular version is done by MEMRI, which means that some western person, critical of islam, obviously found this amusing.
whilst thinking about this video, we are not that far off from such a mentality. Are we??
What kind of Church is the Coptic Orthodox Church to insist that I carry my son in my right arm (least stable) position in order to have Holy Communion?
Even if there is an explanation, so what?
What is someone going to tell me? Because Jesus Christ said that He will count the faithful on His Right? He will put the sheep on his right??
That's it? So the left is now cursed???
Did He not also give us left arms?? Will we curse our left arms??? Should we encourage left handed Coptic Orthodox Christians to repent for being left handed???
You know, these are the kind of things that REALLY make it a pleasure to leave the Coptic Orthodox Church even if the faith of another Church isn't so "complete".
You know, these are the kind of things that REALLY make it a pleasure to leave the Coptic Orthodox Church even if the faith of another Church isn't so "complete".
Im pretty sure the priest wouldn't have done that to someone who is likely to leave the church. I think when priests rebuke ppl they do it because they know that they can cope.
Don't make such a big thing out of this. Every church has small perceived issues such as this. Our church isn't doing too badly compared to the catholic church with its various scandals and the Anglican church debating the issue of homosexuality.
That's not to say we shouldn't always strive for improvement, so we don't become like other churches who have completely alienated their youth
The priest that told me this was a good friend, even a distant family relative. We get along pretty well.
But that's neither here nor there.
What's bothering me is the importance of this in our Church?
I think its pretty clear that the Bible is pro "right hand side (RHS)". All the sheep will be put on the right, the good will be on the right, the Queen sat at the right, everything is going for you if you are right handed.
We enter the alter with our right hand, we draw the cross with our right hand, we eat with our right hand, we do everything with our right hand.
But how important is this?
For example, we cross ourselves from left to right; God took us from the left and put us on His Right side. But the Greeks cross themselves from Right to Left. Does that mean they are going to Hell? THey've done a bad gesture, that means they are asking God to move them from His Right hand side to his left hand side, and are unwittingly making some deal with satan?
OF COURSE NOT!!!
I am going to have communion myself with my son... my son is quite heavy, so I carry him in my left so I can hold the napkin in my right. Its just more stable. To be told to change this is bothering me. Its as if we are losing common sense over stuff that has no meaning.. even if it did have a meaning - so what???
Should we then eat the Body of Christ with the right side of our mouth also??? Would that perfect our salvation??
Marriage is a sacrament, the wife is meant to be on the rhs of the husband in the wedding ceremony. Doesn't this holiness in matrimony extend even outside of the Church?? Shouldn't the wife therefore sleep on the right hand side of her husband, walk, stand and eat also???
Where does this end???
I agree we are living in symbolism, and this is indeed important, but I feel its getting a bit too far.
Handedness is usually caused by difference in brain hemisphere laterality.
What hand we use we can have no effect on our capacity to lead good Christian lives.
These beliefs are probably based on ludicrous ancient superstitions (unfortunately one of many in our Church) which have no backing in the Bible.
I am embarrassed we are even having this conversation.
Don't make such a big thing out of this. Every church has small perceived issues such as this. Our church isn't doing too badly compared to the catholic church with its various scandals and the Anglican church debating the issue of homosexuality.
That's not to say we shouldn't always strive for improvement, so we don't become like other churches who have completely alienated their youth
Look, there are some things in our Church that are holy, and some that are not. Those things that are not biblical, someone will come and make something biblical out of it. But ultimately, this has nothing to do with apostolic tradition, and even if it did, I WANT TO KNOW... i want to know because maybe this type of apostolic tradition, if its THAT important, isn't for me??
Do you realize that to raise children in the faith, is not an easy task. This "darwasha" (fanatism) makes it exceedingly hard.
There is nothing wrong with keeping the Tradition as received. Will God condemn us for not keeping the Tradition? It will depend on our motive.
Zoksasi,
The priest you are referring to is trying to guard the Tradition he received. Now that you know it is the proper way, follow it.
Receiving communion with the right hand is the traditional way in the Church. We received this Tradition from the apostles.
There is nothing wrong with keeping the Tradition as received. Will God condemn us for not keeping the Tradition? It will depend on our motive.
Zoksasi,
The priest you are referring to is trying to guard the Tradition he received. Now that you know it is the proper way, follow it.
What has this got to do with carrying my son!!??
What was the apostolic tradition in carrying your son to receive the Holy Communion!!!!!!!!!!!!!
So, if I'm carrying him on the left hand, as its more stable, then that is bad???
I'm not at all rejecting the importance of these traditions, but what is bothering me is their application.
What if i dropped my son during communion because I was carrying him on my right hand???
WHERE IS YOUR COMMON SENSE????
I'm sure when you meet people, you shake hands with your right hand and not the left, correct? If you put forward your left hand, the other person might interpret that as being impolite. Interestingly, you'll find that shaking with the right hand is found across cultures, regardless of the religion.
The symbolic nature of shaking with the right hand instead of the left is to show the good-will of both parties in shaking each other's hands. In the same way, the priest giving out communion with his right hand is symbolic of the good-will of God to offer himself for our salvation, and our reception with our right hand is symbolic of the good-will and right faith when we partake of communion (note: we no longer receive on the hand, but we still carry the relics of this tradition by holding the linen cloth on our right hand).
This is not absent from Scripture either. The Hebrew word for left-hand is "etel," which means shut or closed, hence the link between not receiving in good-will and being shut out from the Kingdom of God. Also, those standing on the left hand of Christ on judgement day were the ones who never accepted Christ and sent to hell, while those on Christ's right were received into the Kingdom.
However, this does not mean that left-handed people are condemned, as Scripture has examples of left-handed soldiers for God's will (e.g. Judges 20:16, 1 Chronicles 12:2, etc.), which in our age of grace means that left-handed people can fight the temptations of the evil one and be in God's camp equally with the right-handed people.
So I personally think that left-handed people should not be forced to use their right-hand, if they are not able to do so. It's one thing to say that the symbolism of good-will in the church's rites are expressed by using the right-hand -- such as the sign of the cross, giving and receiving communion, and even holding your child on the left-hand and the right-hand before baptism when cursing Satan and reciting the Creed, respectively -- and it's another thing to not accommodate people who are unable to do things with their right-hand, such as in your case, Zoxsasi, with carrying your child on your left-hand. I suggest explaining the matter to your priest, who may have not been aware of the situation and wanted to teach you the correct way of receiving communion for your child.
I know of lefthanded priests that struggle to do the Liturgical movements by using the right hand, but they do.
So what I'm understanding here it's that we should respect random tradition based on nothing but ancient superstitious beliefs that have no basis in actual Scripture? Please someone find me a passage that links the right hand to good and left to evil other than ancient terms created by the same superstitious people who created the belief.
This is clearly a case of symbolism gone too far and gone wrong. I feel bad for left-handed Christians who are expected to change what hand to use simply based on random superstitions which have no basis. In fact, I encourage all of them to have communion with their left hand in tonight's liturgy. I refuse to believe that using the right hand will somehow make the tradition right. Using the left hand is not simply a choice, it is based on a biological process by which the right side of the brain is better developed.
I would suggest that you should refrain from communion if you are thinking in such a way today, and if you think that it is appropriate to encourage others to act contrary to the tradition.
Zoxasi's case is entirely different since it is necessary to carry an infant in the left hand if the parent's right hand is to be free to take care of receiving communion. I also have a congregant whose right side is palsied. This again is a proper reason for using the left hand.
But otherwise we are to embrace the authentic tradition, especially where it is universal and ancient, and it is not our place to abuse it.
I find it rather offensive that you should speak of ancient and universal Orthodox tradition in the way you have. It is neither random, nor superstitious.
I would suggest that you should refrain from communion if you are thinking in such a way today, and if you think that it is appropriate to encourage others to act contrary to the tradition.
Zoxasi's case is entirely different since it is necessary to carry an infant in the left hand if the parent's right hand is to be free to take care of receiving communion. I also have a congregant whose right side is palsied. This again is a proper reason for using the left hand.
But otherwise we are to embrace the authentic tradition, especially where it is universal and ancient, and it is not our place to abuse it.
There is no point in tradition if it is not based on anything. Respecting tradition for the sake of tradition is useless. What is the point in making people uncomfortable and guilty for no reason? No one so far has given me any reason based in actual Scripture to believe using one's right is somehow the correct way to lead's one life. In such a case, I would be open to listen but so far the only reasons given are ancient symbolic beliefs that have nothing to do with Christianity and probably have roots in old cultural remnants that were along the way added to Christianity and are now faulted as actual Christian tradition.
Do you really think that a tradition is 'useless' unless you decide it is worthwhile? I am glad that you would be willing to listen to people if they could meet your criteria, but this is not the Orthodox way at all. I am concerned that if you or any of us set ourselves up as the measure of what is right and true and acceptable then we end up going astray very quickly. It is the essence of protestantism.
I urge you to accept the ancient and universal Tradition of the Church with humility and obedience. This is the life-giving way of salvation. There is a place for asking questions but not for abusing the ancient traditions of the Church.
I find it rather offensive that you should speak of ancient and universal Orthodox tradition in the way you have. It is neither random, nor superstitious.
I would suggest that you should refrain from communion if you are thinking in such a way today, and if you think that it is appropriate to encourage others to act contrary to the tradition.
Zoxasi's case is entirely different since it is necessary to carry an infant in the left hand if the parent's right hand is to be free to take care of receiving communion. I also have a congregant whose right side is palsied. This again is a proper reason for using the left hand.
But otherwise we are to embrace the authentic tradition, especially where it is universal and ancient, and it is not our place to abuse it.
Thanks Fr. Peter,
I can tell you that each time I take communion, I worry so much about the gestures my baby son can make. he moves a great deal. Whilst he's on my left hand, his right hand is under my left shoulder.. and I have him in a strong hold. I can use my right hand then to control him, open his mouth, stabilize him further, anything.
This is the HOLY BODY OF CHRIST AND HIS HONORED PRECIOUS BLOOD... where I am being told to neglect safety for the sake of tradition.
Of course if I was by myself, alone, I would not have a problem at all to do everything with my right hand.
Its quite bothering to know that we are putting tradition before common sense.
I did not doubt that the rules/traditions of the Church stem from certain teachings that are far from haphazard. I respect them very much. However, for my particular case, I did not think that the priest would ask me to change the arm in which I am carrying my son. Do priests realize how fragile it is to get a kid to actually be quiet in Church and then when they are quiet, move them to another arm??
That's all.
Everything else, to do with the right hand etc, is fine.
What, by the way, is the spiritual meaning behind holding one's son in one's right arm when having communion? Out of curiosity?
Many thanks Fr. Peter for your kind understanding in this issue. My only problem is how do i tell the priest my problem? He seems closed to any remark? In fact, I do not mind holding my son in my right arm if I could, but whenever I do, he even moves more.
I have NO problem with the Church's traditions. I do have a problem when applying them (i.e. the application of them) ends up in something that is quite dangerous. Hence, I did say :"where does it end?"
On the contrary, i find it extremely interesting learning about the reasons why we do certain things in the Church. Believe me, if i was not approaching the Holy Body and Blood, I would GLADLY do as my priest asked (and I do at great effort); but I feel that I'm putting his liturgy at great risk in doing so.
What people don't realize also is that if my son is quiet in the left arm, and I change him to my right arm, I cannot guarantee he will be quiet, and so the priest has to decide on the tradeoff. Does he prefer quiet in the Church, or traditions to be kept when holding babies to receive the Holy Communion?
When you are presenting your son for communion there is therefore a sense that you are presenting him with your own right hand. I think it is the sense of presentation to God which is in view.
But if you are also seeking to receive communion at the same time and if the child is of a wriggly age then this is not always responsible. As I have said, I have a congregant who has a palsied right arm. It is physically impossible for him to use his right arm. There could also be a person who had lost their right arm.
In all of these cases, and others, the practicalities of a situation do not deny the tradition, but they allow it to be modified for that case.
In regard to making the sign of the cross, for instance, we know that it is acceptable to make it either left to right, or right to left. Both have real meaning and are substantiated by tradition. But in OUR community we cross ourselves left to right and follow a particular meaning without needing to dismiss the way that other Orthodox cross themselves and the meaning attached to that. BUT no one is able to say that it doesn't matter how we cross ourselves, it does. Likewise we should not say that the use of the right hand is superstition, it is not. But a real reason to modify the tradition in a particular case, especially as applied by a priest or bishop is different to rejecting the tradition.
If you presented yourself for communion carrying a wriggling baby I would be more concerned that you and the infant received communion safely than which hand you were holding the baby in. If you were on your own and just approached for communion in a slouch, without attention or respect, then that would be a different matter. Modifying the tradition for one case does not mean abandoning it for all.
Of course we know that Christians received communion in the hand, placing the right hand over the left. This was certainly the practice in the 3rd century, and its universality suggests it was much older. There is a reference in Tertullian for instance which pushes communion in the hand back to the 2nd century. There is no reason for it not being Apostolic. Right hand over left fits universal cultural norms. It is certainly not supersitition.
If you presented yourself for communion carrying a wriggling baby I would be more concerned that you and the infant received communion safely than which hand you were holding the baby in. If you were on your own and just approached for communion in a slouch, without attention or respect, then that would be a different matter. Modifying the tradition for one case does not mean abandoning it for all.
Thanks for the information.
My son doesn't wriggle that much. But I have more control over him when he's being held in my left as I can hold the napkin in my right and use my right to open his mouth. Its way safer this way.
I have no issue with doing the cross with our right hand. But i would, however, like to know the meaning behind why we have to hold children in our right hand when presenting them for Holy Communion??
But as I said, it is not absolute. If it was difficult for a number of genuine reasons then it is more important that the act is performed by either hand/arm with care and attention.
Because you are presenting a person to God, and we present with our right hand because it represents the good, the light, the life. It is cultural and symbolic, but that does not mean that it does not have value and meaning. The cross is held in the right hand, the candle is held in the right hand. How much more a human person made in the image of God
But as I said, it is not absolute. If it was difficult for a number of genuine reasons then it is more important that the act is performed by either hand/arm with care and attention.
That's a beautiful reason.
Am I allowed to hold him in the left if he fidgets?? Because my only problem is putting this above safety.
Indeed, now that I know the reason, I would like to be sure to do this myself (present my son on my right hand). But alas, I cannot predict his every movement and I need to have communion myself, so is it OK if I think the above meaning whilst holding him in my left so we have a safe and comfortable Communion?
I can only say what I would think if you presented yourself for communion with an infant in my own church. In such a case I would be more concerned with safety and attention rather than which arm the infant is held in.
I can't say what you should do, since you should discuss this with your own priest.
I can only say what I would think if you presented yourself for communion with an infant in my own church. In such a case I would be more concerned with safety and attention rather than which arm the infant is held in.
Thank you very much for your common sense Fr. Peter. Its a reassurance to know that I'm not alone.
Of course I love my Orthodox faith, and was extremely bothered that the priest thought I had the luxury of choosing which hand to hold my son. This is really a worry. If I COULD follow apostolic tradition to the letter, I would.
In regard to making the sign of the cross, for instance, we know that it is acceptable to make it either left to right, or right to left. Both have real meaning and are substantiated by tradition.
I am sorry if I am a little bit off topic but what is the meaning behind crossing from right to left?