Well said Mina. I don't think imikhail lost your point. He did just that, by referring to what Remenkimi originally called GB1, GB2, GB3. The problem is that Greek language is evolving, and it has evolved since Erian effendi's time. So, today's church leaders who know Greek think to themselves: "oh, Greek is not actually pronounced like this, so these letters should be altered again", and then they encourage cantor Ibrahim Ayad and others who duly oblige. Sad, isn't it? As you once referred to /evkharistia/ rather than /eya/, and /maria/ rather than /mareya/... very sad indeed. In 150 years we have confusion on what Greco-Bohairic should be... hehe.... Dear Remenkimi, As far as I am concerned there are no inconsistencies in Damanhour kholagy. Secondly, I don't know what you are referring to in saying that Damanhour kholagy is inconsistent with other sources!!! Cannot really understand what you mean. Scholars take Damanhour kholagy as one of the factual resources basing their studies on, and there are others, many of them are Sa'idic. So what is your point? Oujai qen `P[C
There seems to be a misconception that Fr. Shenouda's entire congregation in Rochester, NY prays in Old Bohairic. When Fr. Shenouda served in St. Mark's there were several deacons that prayed in Old Bohairic and several congregation members but most of the deacons and most congregation members prayed in Greco-Bohairic. Now with Fr. Shenouda serving at Sts. Peter and Paul Church in Rochester the several deacons and congregation members who prayed in Old Bohairic continue to do so over there.
[quote author=Coptic123 link=topic=12781.msg150928#msg150928 date=1327270883] Both churches now have Liturgies every Sunday and Fr. Shenouda now shepherds Sts. Peter and Paul Church.
[quote author=Remnkemi link=topic=12781.msg150964#msg150964 date=1327340328] Different priests from the NY/NJ/Canada area are sent to pray on Sundays at St Mark Rochester.
This only happens when Fr. Shenouda is on the road. He is the priest of St. Mark in Rochester, NY.
Did Fr Shenouda or anyone else in Rochester, NY tell you that Fr Shenouda is temporarily unavailable? No. I am telling you that Pope Shenouda's decision, after sending multiple bishops to assess the situation, was for Fr Shenouda to pray and pastor in St Shenouda the Archimandrite Monastery with pastoral activity in St Peter and St Paul Church. The newly formed board at St Mark's church is looking for a new priest. Until then, priests are coming from other churches. I heard this from members of the Rochester congregation.
[quote author=Remnkemi link=topic=12781.msg150967#msg150967 date=1327343460] Did Fr Shenouda or anyone else in Rochester, NY tell you that Fr Shenouda is temporarily unavailable? No. I am telling you that Pope Shenouda's decision, after sending multiple bishops to assess the situation, was for Fr Shenouda to pray and pastor in St Shenouda the Archimandrite Monastery with pastoral activity in St Peter and St Paul Church. The newly formed board at St Mark's church is looking for a new priest. Until then, priests are coming from other churches. I heard this from members of the Rochester congregation.
What situation are you referring to?
Are you saying that Fr. Shenouda does not pray at St Mark on Sundays?
[quote author=Remnkemi link=topic=12781.msg150147#msg150147 date=1326118131] [quote author=ilovesaintmark link=topic=12781.msg150088#msg150088 date=1325991320] I will add fuel to the fire, you forgot the school that teaches: "evkhi".
In any of the scenarios: no one stands and no one prays. That is the problem.
Merry Christmas!
ILSM, I love your uncanny short answers. After all, I wrote a doxology in Coptic for you. (Which by the way, you never commented on. But I guess your uncanny short answers are getting shorter)
Where is this doxology? I need a laugh. With a translation if possible.
You'll notice that in that thread I said no translation will be given since a deacon must learn Coptic. But I think a translation is in order:
The dear and strong man, with a powerful voice, who loves the Church, (and speaks) with his strong words. That is this man, the one called "I Love Saint Mark". He spoke many sayings. (I meant to say "He spoke many short one-word answers." But it wouldn't fit the tune) The first of his sayings (or rant depending on the translation), which he said many times, is "Deacons don't understand the diaconate." "If they do all the blessed deeds (requirements) of the blessed diaconate there would be no problems (fights) in the Church." (That's another ILSM saying) Do not sing in the microphone. Do not speak lies. Do not forget what you have obtained from the diaconate." (I think this summarizes his philosophy on life) Pray to the Lord on our behalf, the great and strong deacon, I Love Saint Mark, that He may forgive us our sins.
What do you think, ILSM? Is that adequate? I was thinking of adding more verses. Maybe I should work on that Praxis response and medeha for your glorification. Can we use this doxology when we receive you with the Reception of new priest Nobel Peace Prize Winner Rite after you accept that Nobel Peace Prize you spoke about here?
[quote author=Copticandproud link=topic=12781.msg150134#msg150134 date=1326078730] [quote author=ophadece link=topic=12781.msg150092#msg150092 date=1326011023] There is no such thing as rules of pronouncing letter "x" in any language.. both are correct... Oujai
I honestly cannot find the source but I have been taught from two different people in two completely different continents that 'X' is pronounced K in all coptic words and SH if it is in greek and followed by the 'E' vowels and Kh in every other case...
If you scroll all the way down to the Coptic section of the book, you will see what I said here.
This is how I learnt this "rule". (It used to be part of the middle and high school curriculum for last couple of years, but not this year.)
What do you guys think of this? This is what they teach the kids in church. They have all of those rules that the kids have to memorize. Should not they at least mention a little history about Arian Moftah and his Greco-Boharic? Instead, every one at church thinks that this is how our fathers spoke Coptic years ago.
Comments
Dear Remenkimi,
As far as I am concerned there are no inconsistencies in Damanhour kholagy. Secondly, I don't know what you are referring to in saying that Damanhour kholagy is inconsistent with other sources!!! Cannot really understand what you mean. Scholars take Damanhour kholagy as one of the factual resources basing their studies on, and there are others, many of them are Sa'idic. So what is your point?
Oujai qen `P[C
He is still the sole priest in Rochester and his main church is St. Mark. St. Paul was a Catholic cathedral that he purchased few years ago.
Both churches now have Liturgies every Sunday and Fr. Shenouda now shepherds Sts. Peter and Paul Church.
Who prays at St Mark?
Different priests from the NY/NJ/Canada area are sent to pray on Sundays at St Mark Rochester.
This only happens when Fr. Shenouda is on the road. He is the priest of St. Mark in Rochester, NY.
Did Fr Shenouda or anyone else in Rochester, NY tell you that Fr Shenouda is temporarily unavailable? No. I am telling you that Pope Shenouda's decision, after sending multiple bishops to assess the situation, was for Fr Shenouda to pray and pastor in St Shenouda the Archimandrite Monastery with pastoral activity in St Peter and St Paul Church. The newly formed board at St Mark's church is looking for a new priest. Until then, priests are coming from other churches. I heard this from members of the Rochester congregation.
What situation are you referring to?
Are you saying that Fr. Shenouda does not pray at St Mark on Sundays?
[quote author=ilovesaintmark link=topic=12781.msg150088#msg150088 date=1325991320]
I will add fuel to the fire, you forgot the school that teaches: "evkhi".
In any of the scenarios: no one stands and no one prays. That is the problem.
Merry Christmas!
ILSM,
I love your uncanny short answers. After all, I wrote a doxology in Coptic for you. (Which by the way, you never commented on. But I guess your uncanny short answers are getting shorter)
Where is this doxology? I need a laugh. With a translation if possible.
I think an encore is needed.
You'll notice that in that thread I said no translation will be given since a deacon must learn Coptic. But I think a translation is in order:
The dear and strong man, with a powerful voice, who loves the Church, (and speaks) with his strong words.
That is this man, the one called "I Love Saint Mark". He spoke many sayings. (I meant to say "He spoke many short one-word answers." But it wouldn't fit the tune)
The first of his sayings (or rant depending on the translation), which he said many times, is "Deacons don't understand the diaconate."
"If they do all the blessed deeds (requirements) of the blessed diaconate there would be no problems (fights) in the Church." (That's another ILSM saying)
Do not sing in the microphone. Do not speak lies. Do not forget what you have obtained from the diaconate." (I think this summarizes his philosophy on life)
Pray to the Lord on our behalf, the great and strong deacon, I Love Saint Mark, that He may forgive us our sins.
What do you think, ILSM? Is that adequate? I was thinking of adding more verses. Maybe I should work on that Praxis response and medeha for your glorification. Can we use this doxology when we receive you with the Reception of new priest Nobel Peace Prize Winner Rite after you accept that Nobel Peace Prize you spoke about here?
[quote author=ophadece link=topic=12781.msg150092#msg150092 date=1326011023]
There is no such thing as rules of pronouncing letter "x" in any language.. both are correct...
Oujai
I honestly cannot find the source but I have been taught from two different people in two completely different continents that 'X' is pronounced K in all coptic words and SH if it is in greek and followed by the 'E' vowels and Kh in every other case...
Well, I found the source now.
http://www.suscopts.org/programs/st-mark-festival/pdf/2012/FamilyYouthMahragan_ar.pdf
If you scroll all the way down to the Coptic section of the book, you will see what I said here.
This is how I learnt this "rule". (It used to be part of the middle and high school curriculum for last couple of years, but not this year.)
What do you guys think of this? This is what they teach the kids in church. They have all of those rules that the kids have to memorize. Should not they at least mention a little history about Arian Moftah and his Greco-Boharic? Instead, every one at church thinks that this is how our fathers spoke Coptic years ago.