[quote author=Andrew link=topic=12798.msg150407#msg150407 date=1326495946] [quote=Fr. Moses Samaan, Presbyter at St. Demiana's COC in San Diego, CA]I am very surprised to see Coptic Orthodox Christians sharing this link throughout Facebook. While the video may be artistic with a clear message, it represents the heresy of Christ without His Church. As such, we should stop sharing and encouraging it.
Any attempt to divide Christ from His Church is heresy. Christ is the Head of the Church and She is His Body. The Body of Christ is normally connected with the divine Eucharist, because it is in the Eucharist that the Body is revealed and realized. In the divine Eucharist we have the whole Christ, the Head, and the Body, the Church. It is the Lord Himself Who is manifested as He gives His one Body to all, so that in partaking of it they may all become one with Him and with one another. “For we, though many, are one bread and one body; for we all partake of that one bread” (1 Cor 10:17 NKJV). As St. Athanasius explained, "For we all, partaking of the same, become one Body, having the one Lord in ourselves." Those who divide Christ from the Church do so at the expense of the Eucharist, which they deny. How can they preach Jesus while ignoring the fact that He Himself instituted the Mystery of the Eucharist? It is heresy.
Moreover, this person speaks of our Lord Jesus Christ as though He never established the Church, which is inconsistent with the Holy Scriptures and passages such as the Great Commission in which He sent out the Apostles and said to them, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age” (Matt 28:18–20 NKJV).
Brethren, it is easy for us to be moved by artistic videos with clear messages that seem to be in favor of Jesus, but we have to be careful to safeguard our minds and hold fast to the Holy Orthodox faith, which the Apostles handed down and the Fathers preserved. In our Creed, we proclaim, "We believe...in One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church." If this is our faith, then what is in this video cannot be our faith, because the two are opposites. Let us be careful.
Glory to God for this priest and his truthful statement.
These are just a few of my thoughts and contemplations on the video and the message from Fr. Moses Samaan:
[quote=Fr. Moses Samaan, Presbyter at St. Demiana's COC in San Diego, CA]I am very surprised to see Coptic Orthodox Christians sharing this link throughout Facebook. While the video may be artistic with a clear message, it represents the heresy of Christ without His Church. As such, we should stop sharing and encouraging it.
It was very artistic, and a lot of protestant do indeed share this idea.
Any attempt to divide Christ from His Church is heresy. Christ is the Head of the Church and She is His Body.
We had this discussion in Sunday School as to "what is the Church"? We said it was the Holy Apostolic Church. The Coptic Orthodox Church. The Bride of Christ.
The Sunday School teacher said to us:
- isn't the Church also the dwelling place of Christ? is it not His Home? We are the Church. It us who make up the Church. It is not the building and the spires... its us. We (US) are the body of Christ. Every new baptism IS a new member in the Body of Christ. Every new baptism is a new branch or bud in the vine where the Holy Spirit works. I don't believe, neither does my Sunday SChool teacher believe that every time a new Church is built then this is an addition to Christ's Body.
This does NOT mean I'm saying that the Holy Apostolic Church is NOT needed!! NOT AT ALL!! I'm saying that for me, or for those who have understood this video correctly, that the Church is a place where I receive medication. That's all. If the Church is where I receive medication, then the Coptic Orthodox Church is the most excellent hospital in the world.
The artist/rapper CLEARLY said that the Church IS a Hospital for the ill. This IS what the COC has always taught us: that our Church is a hospital.
The artist is simply saying that religion is not what Christ came to establish. What is the proof?? Christianity is about a relationship with Christ. Its not a religion like islam where we follow rules. Is it? Its where we live in Grace. Regardless if you are protestant or Orthodox, I'm pretty sure that this should apply to everyone who is Christian.
This raises an important point: What if someone is rejected from his/her Church and cannot go or attend the Church? Should this impact his relationship with Christ?
The Body of Christ is normally connected with the divine Eucharist, because it is in the Eucharist that the Body is revealed and realized. In the divine Eucharist we have the whole Christ, the Head, and the Body, the Church. It is the Lord Himself Who is manifested as He gives His one Body to all, so that in partaking of it they may all become one with Him and with one another. “For we, though many, are one bread and one body; for we all partake of that one bread” (1 Cor 10:17 NKJV). As St. Athanasius explained, "For we all, partaking of the same, become one Body, having the one Lord in ourselves." Those who divide Christ from the Church do so at the expense of the Eucharist, which they deny. How can they preach Jesus while ignoring the fact that He Himself instituted the Mystery of the Eucharist? It is heresy.
But no one is rejecting the importance of the Eucharist!! No one who posts this video , nor the message in this video is rejecting the importance of the Eucharist!! What is being rejected is that Christianity IS a religion, or that Christ came to establish a religion. He came to save us, and INDEED WE ARE SAVED THROUGH THE EUCHARIST, BAPTISM, FAITH etc. Its through the Holy Sacraments that we are saved.
What the video is saying is that I cannot say I'm Christian and think I'm saved. Because I'm baptized, does NOT mean I am saved. Even Christ said this. If you do not know the Lord on earth, I doubt you will have a chance to know Him in the Kingdom. This is all that the video is proposing. No where are they rejecting the importance of the sacraments.
In fact, truth be told, I do happen to agree with it.
Moreover, this person speaks of our Lord Jesus Christ as though He never established the Church,
I never had that impression. Not at all.
There is a difference between establishing a Church, and establishing a religion. The idea, as I mentioned previously, is that by following a set of rules or even spiritual traditions, and NOT have a deep relationship with Christ, DOES NOT mean I'm saved. Forget about being saved or not - it does not mean I'm even living in Holiness.
There is an important message in this video that I will defend: the importance of being independent of your own salvation. For example: The communion, for me, is VITAL, for my spiritual well being. No doubt about it. However, if I'm prevented from having the Holy Communion because for whatever reason (that isn't my fault) -should this ought to impact my relationship with Christ? Should this mean I can start living a life of sin because I'm no longer Coptic orthodox??
I would like to quote a bishop who, although I'm not a huge fan of, told me something, i do believe was a huge help for me: "Do you think that if the Coptic Orthodox Church removed my "3ema" (the bishopric hat or rank) that this will change my relationship with Christ"
Indeed , he is right. What is wrong with that??
I have to defend this message in this video.
If I engage in the Holy Communion, and the sacraments of the Church (WITH ALL SINCERITY OF HEART AND ZEALOUSNESS) - would the result be a good Coptic Orthodox Christian, or a "SAVED son of God"?
The sacraments of the Church are "life giving" - they give you life, not a membership card into a religion. This is the point the video is making. For many people reading this post, they may not know what the difference is. For those who have ever been rejected from the COC - and have desired to have Holy Communion, but could not - you would understand this perfectly well.
Brethren, it is easy for us to be moved by artistic videos with clear messages that seem to be in favor of Jesus, but we have to be careful to safeguard our minds and hold fast to the Holy Orthodox faith, which the Apostles handed down and the Fathers preserved. In our Creed, we proclaim, "We believe...in One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church." If this is our faith, then what is in this video cannot be our faith, because the two are opposites. Let us be careful.
I do not see any conflict between the Church and the message in this video.
Can someone deny their baptism?? 180,000 Catholics tried to deny their baptism. But the reality is, once you are a son of God, you cannot change that. Christianity is about a relationship with God. Its not about being a slave to God and following rules. Is it?
Again, it does NOT mean at all that the video is attacking the Church! How? The Church IS the Body of Christ. The Church is the Bride of Christ... but its not just the building.. its our souls. Our souls are the bride of Christ also. Our hearts are the dwelling place of the Holy Spirit.
If I'm mistaken or even heretical in any of my opinions, then please feel free to correct and educate me.
I understand there is a great deal of disrespect towards the protestant movement - but who said the man in this video is protestant?? How do you know he is not Catholic yet seeing the Church in a different light?
Finally, by him saying that the Church is "A HOSPITAL" for the ill, he is indeed respecting the Church - who CAN DENY this? WHo can deny that we are all sinners looking for healing. Who can deny that its THROUGH the sacraments we receive the Graces to combat / overcome our sins?
I can't believe that God made it so that the world could handle so much foolishness. this man is a fool and it really makes me angry. This is stupid, and I can wait for judgment day when such unrepentant people will suffer at the hands of the faithful.
[quote author=ReturnOrthodoxy link=topic=12798.msg150493#msg150493 date=1326691395] I can't believe that God made it so that the world could handle so much foolishness. this man is a fool and it really makes me angry. This is stupid, and I can wait for judgment day when such unrepentant people will suffer at the hands of the faithful.
May God rebuke him.
ReturnOrthodoxy
This is not how we're taught to treat these kinds of people. No, we are commanded to do the opposite, and even if we are to combat them harshly, we are not to wish this type of suffering on anyone. This is pride, not love.
Haha this video made me laugh! He doesn't even show a basic understanding of Christian theology! He doesnot even rhyme!!! The only thing that I liked in this video was the music. It was pretty dramatic lol
[quote author=Biboboy link=topic=12798.msg150569#msg150569 date=1326776561] Response by a Catholic, which is perfect for an Orthodox Christian too (and yes, he rhymes):
Ye i saw this, it is great lol. There was a Copt who got happy with all the hype about the old one so he called this a heresy, and likened it to Arius. don't worry, we subdued him lol.
[quote author=ReturnOrthodoxy link=topic=12798.msg150570#msg150570 date=1326777719] [quote author=Biboboy link=topic=12798.msg150569#msg150569 date=1326776561] Response by a Catholic, which is perfect for an Orthodox Christian too (and yes, he rhymes):
Ye i saw this, it is great lol. There was a Copt who got happy with all the hype about the old one so he called this a heresy, and likened it to Arius. don't worry, we subdued him lol.
ReturnOrthodoxy
lol! *facepalm* you know if we took the zeal in all this we could be combating atheism together instead of fighting with each other
Comments
[quote=Fr. Moses Samaan, Presbyter at St. Demiana's COC in San Diego, CA]I am very surprised to see Coptic Orthodox Christians sharing this link throughout Facebook. While the video may be artistic with a clear message, it represents the heresy of Christ without His Church. As such, we should stop sharing and encouraging it.
Any attempt to divide Christ from His Church is heresy. Christ is the Head of the Church and She is His Body. The Body of Christ is normally connected with the divine Eucharist, because it is in the Eucharist that the Body is revealed and realized. In the divine Eucharist we have the whole Christ, the Head, and the Body, the Church. It is the Lord Himself Who is manifested as He gives His one Body to all, so that in partaking of it they may all become one with Him and with one another. “For we, though many, are one bread and one body; for we all partake of that one bread” (1 Cor 10:17 NKJV). As St. Athanasius explained, "For we all, partaking of the same, become one Body, having the one Lord in ourselves." Those who divide Christ from the Church do so at the expense of the Eucharist, which they deny. How can they preach Jesus while ignoring the fact that He Himself instituted the Mystery of the Eucharist? It is heresy.
Moreover, this person speaks of our Lord Jesus Christ as though He never established the Church, which is inconsistent with the Holy Scriptures and passages such as the Great Commission in which He sent out the Apostles and said to them, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age” (Matt 28:18–20 NKJV).
Brethren, it is easy for us to be moved by artistic videos with clear messages that seem to be in favor of Jesus, but we have to be careful to safeguard our minds and hold fast to the Holy Orthodox faith, which the Apostles handed down and the Fathers preserved. In our Creed, we proclaim, "We believe...in One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church." If this is our faith, then what is in this video cannot be our faith, because the two are opposites. Let us be careful.
Glory to God for this priest and his truthful statement.
[quote=Fr. Moses Samaan, Presbyter at St. Demiana's COC in San Diego, CA]I am very surprised to see Coptic Orthodox Christians sharing this link throughout Facebook. While the video may be artistic with a clear message, it represents the heresy of Christ without His Church. As such, we should stop sharing and encouraging it.
It was very artistic, and a lot of protestant do indeed share this idea. We had this discussion in Sunday School as to "what is the Church"? We said it was the Holy Apostolic Church. The Coptic Orthodox Church. The Bride of Christ.
The Sunday School teacher said to us:
- isn't the Church also the dwelling place of Christ? is it not His Home? We are the Church. It us who make up the Church. It is not the building and the spires... its us. We (US) are the body of Christ. Every new baptism IS a new member in the Body of Christ. Every new baptism is a new branch or bud in the vine where the Holy Spirit works. I don't believe, neither does my Sunday SChool teacher believe that every time a new Church is built then this is an addition to Christ's Body.
This does NOT mean I'm saying that the Holy Apostolic Church is NOT needed!! NOT AT ALL!! I'm saying that for me, or for those who have understood this video correctly, that the Church is a place where I receive medication. That's all. If the Church is where I receive medication, then the Coptic Orthodox Church is the most excellent hospital in the world.
The artist/rapper CLEARLY said that the Church IS a Hospital for the ill. This IS what the COC has always taught us: that our Church is a hospital.
The artist is simply saying that religion is not what Christ came to establish. What is the proof?? Christianity is about a relationship with Christ. Its not a religion like islam where we follow rules. Is it? Its where we live in Grace.
Regardless if you are protestant or Orthodox, I'm pretty sure that this should apply to everyone who is Christian.
This raises an important point: What if someone is rejected from his/her Church and cannot go or attend the Church? Should this impact his relationship with Christ? But no one is rejecting the importance of the Eucharist!! No one who posts this video , nor the message in this video is rejecting the importance of the Eucharist!! What is being rejected is that Christianity IS a religion, or that Christ came to establish a religion. He came to save us, and INDEED WE ARE SAVED THROUGH THE EUCHARIST, BAPTISM, FAITH etc. Its through the Holy Sacraments that we are saved.
What the video is saying is that I cannot say I'm Christian and think I'm saved. Because I'm baptized, does NOT mean I am saved. Even Christ said this. If you do not know the Lord on earth, I doubt you will have a chance to know Him in the Kingdom. This is all that the video is proposing. No where are they rejecting the importance of the sacraments.
In fact, truth be told, I do happen to agree with it. I never had that impression. Not at all.
There is a difference between establishing a Church, and establishing a religion.
The idea, as I mentioned previously, is that by following a set of rules or even spiritual traditions, and NOT have a deep relationship with Christ, DOES NOT mean I'm saved. Forget about being saved or not - it does not mean I'm even living in Holiness.
There is an important message in this video that I will defend: the importance of being independent of your own salvation. For example: The communion, for me, is VITAL, for my spiritual well being. No doubt about it. However, if I'm prevented from having the Holy Communion because for whatever reason (that isn't my fault) -should this ought to impact my relationship with Christ? Should this mean I can start living a life of sin because I'm no longer Coptic orthodox??
I would like to quote a bishop who, although I'm not a huge fan of, told me something, i do believe was a huge help for me:
"Do you think that if the Coptic Orthodox Church removed my "3ema" (the bishopric hat or rank) that this will change my relationship with Christ"
Indeed , he is right. What is wrong with that??
I have to defend this message in this video.
If I engage in the Holy Communion, and the sacraments of the Church (WITH ALL SINCERITY OF HEART AND ZEALOUSNESS) - would the result be a good Coptic Orthodox Christian, or a "SAVED son of God"?
The sacraments of the Church are "life giving" - they give you life, not a membership card into a religion. This is the point the video is making. For many people reading this post, they may not know what the difference is. For those who have ever been rejected from the COC - and have desired to have Holy Communion, but could not - you would understand this perfectly well.
I do not see any conflict between the Church and the message in this video.
Can someone deny their baptism?? 180,000 Catholics tried to deny their baptism. But the reality is, once you are a son of God, you cannot change that. Christianity is about a relationship with God. Its not about being a slave to God and following rules. Is it?
Again, it does NOT mean at all that the video is attacking the Church! How? The Church IS the Body of Christ. The Church is the Bride of Christ... but its not just the building.. its our souls. Our souls are the bride of Christ also. Our hearts are the dwelling place of the Holy Spirit.
If I'm mistaken or even heretical in any of my opinions, then please feel free to correct and educate me.
I understand there is a great deal of disrespect towards the protestant movement - but who said the man in this video is protestant?? How do you know he is not Catholic yet seeing the Church in a different light?
Finally, by him saying that the Church is "A HOSPITAL" for the ill, he is indeed respecting the Church - who CAN DENY this? WHo can deny that we are all sinners looking for healing. Who can deny that its THROUGH the sacraments we receive the Graces to combat / overcome our sins?
May God rebuke him.
ReturnOrthodoxy
I can't believe that God made it so that the world could handle so much foolishness. this man is a fool and it really makes me angry. This is stupid, and I can wait for judgment day when such unrepentant people will suffer at the hands of the faithful.
May God rebuke him.
ReturnOrthodoxy
This is not how we're taught to treat these kinds of people. No, we are commanded to do the opposite, and even if we are to combat them harshly, we are not to wish this type of suffering on anyone. This is pride, not love.
I have sinned
Response by a Catholic, which is perfect for an Orthodox Christian too (and yes, he rhymes):
Ye i saw this, it is great lol. There was a Copt who got happy with all the hype about the old one so he called this a heresy, and likened it to Arius. don't worry, we subdued him lol.
ReturnOrthodoxy
[quote author=Biboboy link=topic=12798.msg150569#msg150569 date=1326776561]
Response by a Catholic, which is perfect for an Orthodox Christian too (and yes, he rhymes):
Ye i saw this, it is great lol. There was a Copt who got happy with all the hype about the old one so he called this a heresy, and likened it to Arius. don't worry, we subdued him lol.
ReturnOrthodoxy
lol! *facepalm* you know if we took the zeal in all this we could be combating atheism together instead of fighting with each other
What's with the hand motions and waves? The two videos look like spazzed out males imitating hula dancers.