If the world was full of Protestants who would guard the teachings of Christ and who could be trusted I guess god could help the Protestants guard the bible
Why would the world be full of Protestants? That would be to say that the Church had been destroyed and overcome, and it can never be destroyed and overcome.
The Protestants have NOT guarded the teachings of Christ. Even a simple and basic knowledge of their teachings shows that this is not the case?
Because I had to end my post to just let others know I have not completely been able to prove our church is from the apostles or to support my revelation
I saw a statistic last December on the christian religion that said Catholics make up 50%, Protestants 38%, and Orthodox just under 12%. So I don't think protestants will overtake the world.
[quote author=user157 link=topic=12817.msg150542#msg150542 date=1326744502] Because I had to end my post to just let others know I have not completely been able to prove our church is from the apostles or to support my revelation
Protestants think that their teachings are apostolic because they derive them from scripture. This however is false. If nobody in the early church, including the disciples of the apostles, taught any protestant doctrine, how then can protestantism even be considered Christian? This is the problem with sola scriptura, it has given way to anyone interpreting scripture for themselves. Now there are 40,000 denominations, all claiming to be led by the Holy Spirit, yet the vast majority of them have conflicting doctrine. All based on the same book, the bible.
Protestantism follows in the same spirit of the early Christian heresies, it is a rebellion. Rebellion is derived from pride, pride originates with satan. This protest came about in the 16th century and has literally no connection with Christ or the apostles, outside of their own erroneous personal interpretation of scripture. So the biggest problem for them is explaining how they came to be and why. The early protestants believed, contrary to scripture,(Mt 16:18) that the church had gone awry. That they were reforming the church to the early church standards and practices. This however is clearly not true. Not one of the early church fathers speaks of scripture being the sole authority, and not one ever speaks of faith alone. This means that the two pillars of protestantism were the fabrications of a man, Martin Luther, and not apostolic.
I think John Calvin took the rebellion to a much higher level than Martin Luther. Read any of Calvin's commentaries. Every other sentence is a condemnation of the "papists". It seemed like John Calvin did not care about Apostolic succession. In fact, he wanted nothing to do with the Apostolic Roman Catholic Church. He was one angry and prideful man, an opportunist who took Luther's movement of religious purism to an absolute extreme. Just my observation.
[quote author=Remnkemi link=topic=12817.msg150591#msg150591 date=1326814449] I think John Calvin took the rebellion to a much higher level than Martin Luther. Read any of Calvin's commentaries. Every other sentence is a condemnation of the "papists". It seemed like John Calvin did not care about Apostolic succession. In fact, he wanted nothing to do with the Apostolic Roman Catholic Church. He was one angry and prideful man, an opportunist who took Luther's movement of religious purism to an absolute extreme. Just my observation.
That is also a good point. For Luther, he was obsessed with his salvation, so much so that he became like a paranoid drug user. This is the reason for the creation of sola fide, all ya gotta do is believe. Also, the RCC believes that once a priest, always a priest. They believe that you always have this authority bestowed upon you in your ordination. So Luther felt totally justified, and probably apostolic. There is a book I can show you that is all about the Lutherans going to the Orthodox. The Orthodox rejected them.
[quote author=Ioannes link=topic=12817.msg150564#msg150564 date=1326773587] Not one of the early church fathers speaks of scripture being the sole authority, and not one ever speaks of faith alone. This means that the two pillars of protestantism were the fabrications of a man, Martin Luther, and not apostolic.
Not starting an argument or anything, I probably have the smallest knowledge of any in this website and wouldnot last a second in an argument with any of you guys BUT in Ephesians 2:8-9 it says "For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast."
This is the work of God that u believe in him whom he sent Salvation is indeed a free gift if u become unable to do righteous deeds to the extent of doing all of the will of God or what God knew u could do but what set u apart from others is u made diligent search to the question who do men say that I am. You are th door that whoever enters by you may be saved you are the door who We must strive to enter by. For the bible also says blessed is the man for to whom iniquity is not imputed to the man who does not do works but believes in jesus righteousness is imputed. But God had given his body and blood for life they are life giving sacraments unless you eat my flesh and drink my blood u have no life in u which is why others do not have the ability to live virtuous lives but God will have mercy on whom he will have mercy and will call whom he calls and will impute righteousness to them who come in the eleventh hour because no one taught them and they could not find him on their obuteo God revealed himself to them because they fear him but he wI'll require holiness from those of the first hour And he can raise up children to Abraham from stones now everyone is able to abstain from sexual immorality and obvious sins but man will never be perfect like jesus
St Paul says our conscience is what we will be judged by and cursed us he who does not do all that is within the book. Also we do not need to have done more good than bad but we must repent for today is the day of salvation and blessed is he who is still watching in the 4th hour
[quote author=servant33 link=topic=12817.msg150561#msg150561 date=1326772837] [quote author=user157 link=topic=12817.msg150542#msg150542 date=1326744502] Because I had to end my post to just let others know I have not completely been able to prove our church is from the apostles or to support my revelation
[quote author=user157 link=topic=12817.msg150649#msg150649 date=1326853155] [quote author=servant33 link=topic=12817.msg150561#msg150561 date=1326772837] [quote author=user157 link=topic=12817.msg150542#msg150542 date=1326744502] Because I had to end my post to just let others know I have not completely been able to prove our church is from the apostles or to support my revelation
where is it proved? Show me the verses are they vague or clear? I know it existed at the time of the apostles but does it exist now?
Don't tell me it's one of those things that it is your choice to believe like Gods existence people only want to believe in his existence because they trust he is worthy of worship. I could be forced to believe his existence out of fear of punishment but that would not mean I would love him
Because its like a family. I know my father and my grandfather, and my father knew my father and my grand father and my great grand father. All along the line, they keep on passing stories of what happened to them when they were young. One brother of my great grandfather writes it all down so that we, a century and a half later don't forget it all....its exactly the same with the apostolic succession. You can't just fake that much history. We have documents from many if not all centuries whether they be civil or ecclesiastical documents which prove that we've had patriarchs and bishops the whole time. I don't understand how its a hard concept.
[quote author=user157 link=topic=12817.msg150649#msg150649 date=1326853155] [quote author=servant33 link=topic=12817.msg150561#msg150561 date=1326772837] [quote author=user157 link=topic=12817.msg150542#msg150542 date=1326744502] Because I had to end my post to just let others know I have not completely been able to prove our church is from the apostles or to support my revelation
How do u know this history is true and someone did not make it up
How are we sure of any history? Many church fathers mention apostolic succession. Irenaeus and Tertullian seem to rely on this argument heavily. Another way apostolic succession works is by tracing the teaching AND worship. You can find the same teaching from St Ignatius of Antioch that you find in our church today. You can read St. Cyprian and see his thought reflected in the teachings of St. John Chrysostom or St Cyril of Alexandria. Then fast forward to today, and still the same. Apostolic succession is not just successive ordination, but successive doctrine, teaching, and worship.
A great example of this comes from the EOTC. The protestants attacked them by pulling a beggar off the street, cleaning him up, and paying him to pretend he was a bishop from a church in the countryside. The EOTC pulled out their records to not only show this man was never a bishop, but that the church he claimed to be from did not even exist, ever. The EOTC showed that they have always kept a detailed record of their bishops and priests since their founding. I am sure this is the same for all or most of the Orthodox churches.
In the new book I am working on I list the patriarchs of the coptic church, from the beginning to our current patriarch.
Not all popes have written anything and just like someone said of st Augustine that the Catholics made up that he believed in purgatory we can make up their writings also
[quote author=user157 link=topic=12817.msg150652#msg150652 date=1326857596] where is it proved? Show me the verses are they vague or clear? I know it existed at the time of the apostles but does it exist now?
If it existed at the time of the apostles what would make it stop? Is it just your claim?
I know it is the same with the new testament how can we prove it I just believe it because I believe the old testament I believe if god exists which no one can deny the possibility it is likely that he would want to declare his will to us
[quote author=user157 link=topic=12817.msg150670#msg150670 date=1326860678] Why are the blind not healed today? Why are the dead not risen? Now I must attack Jesus miracles why did he not heal a leg which was chopped off?
Give me evidence that all the blind were healed at the time of Jesus. Your argument is silly.
Comments
The Protestants have NOT guarded the teachings of Christ. Even a simple and basic knowledge of their teachings shows that this is not the case?
Why would you say that they could?
I saw a statistic last December on the christian religion that said Catholics make up 50%, Protestants 38%, and Orthodox just under 12%. So I don't think protestants will overtake the world.
I pray for the steadfastness of our church.
Because I had to end my post to just let others know I have not completely been able to prove our church is from the apostles or to support my revelation
lol I don't understand.
Here is proof of apostolic succession:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Coptic_Orthodox_Popes_of_Alexandria
Protestantism follows in the same spirit of the early Christian heresies, it is a rebellion. Rebellion is derived from pride, pride originates with satan. This protest came about in the 16th century and has literally no connection with Christ or the apostles, outside of their own erroneous personal interpretation of scripture. So the biggest problem for them is explaining how they came to be and why. The early protestants believed, contrary to scripture,(Mt 16:18) that the church had gone awry. That they were reforming the church to the early church standards and practices. This however is clearly not true. Not one of the early church fathers speaks of scripture being the sole authority, and not one ever speaks of faith alone. This means that the two pillars of protestantism were the fabrications of a man, Martin Luther, and not apostolic.
I think John Calvin took the rebellion to a much higher level than Martin Luther. Read any of Calvin's commentaries. Every other sentence is a condemnation of the "papists". It seemed like John Calvin did not care about Apostolic succession. In fact, he wanted nothing to do with the Apostolic Roman Catholic Church. He was one angry and prideful man, an opportunist who took Luther's movement of religious purism to an absolute extreme. Just my observation.
That is also a good point. For Luther, he was obsessed with his salvation, so much so that he became like a paranoid drug user. This is the reason for the creation of sola fide, all ya gotta do is believe. Also, the RCC believes that once a priest, always a priest. They believe that you always have this authority bestowed upon you in your ordination. So Luther felt totally justified, and probably apostolic. There is a book I can show you that is all about the Lutherans going to the Orthodox. The Orthodox rejected them.
Not one of the early church fathers speaks of scripture being the sole authority, and not one ever speaks of faith alone. This means that the two pillars of protestantism were the fabrications of a man, Martin Luther, and not apostolic.
Not starting an argument or anything, I probably have the smallest knowledge of any in this website and wouldnot last a second in an argument with any of you guys BUT in Ephesians 2:8-9 it says "For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast."
Salvation is indeed a free gift if u become unable to do righteous deeds to the extent of doing all of the will of God or what God knew u could do but what set u apart from others is u made diligent search to the question who do men say that I am. You are th door that whoever enters by you may be saved you are the door who
We must strive to enter by. For the bible also says blessed is the man for to whom iniquity is not imputed to the man who does not do works but believes in jesus righteousness is imputed. But God had given his body and blood for life they are life giving sacraments unless you eat my flesh and drink my blood u have no life in u which is why others do not have the ability to live virtuous lives but God will have mercy on whom he will have mercy and will call whom he calls and will impute righteousness to them who come in the eleventh hour because no one taught them and they could not find him on their obuteo God revealed himself to them because they fear him but he wI'll require holiness from those of the first hour
And he can raise up children to Abraham from stones now everyone is able to abstain from sexual immorality and obvious sins but man will never be perfect like jesus
[quote author=user157 link=topic=12817.msg150542#msg150542 date=1326744502]
Because I had to end my post to just let others know I have not completely been able to prove our church is from the apostles or to support my revelation
lol I don't understand.
Here is proof of apostolic succession:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Coptic_Orthodox_Popes_of_Alexandria
How do u know this history is true and someone did not make it up
[quote author=servant33 link=topic=12817.msg150561#msg150561 date=1326772837]
[quote author=user157 link=topic=12817.msg150542#msg150542 date=1326744502]
Because I had to end my post to just let others know I have not completely been able to prove our church is from the apostles or to support my revelation
lol I don't understand.
Here is proof of apostolic succession:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Coptic_Orthodox_Popes_of_Alexandria
How do u know this history is true and someone did not make it up
Apostolic succession is mentioned in the Bible so it has to be true.
Don't tell me it's one of those things that it is your choice to believe like Gods existence people only want to believe in his existence because they trust he is worthy of worship. I could be forced to believe his existence out of fear of punishment but that would not mean I would love him
Now I will lose all credibility on this site
before u criticise remember now abide three things faith hope and love and the greater of these is love
[quote author=servant33 link=topic=12817.msg150561#msg150561 date=1326772837]
[quote author=user157 link=topic=12817.msg150542#msg150542 date=1326744502]
Because I had to end my post to just let others know I have not completely been able to prove our church is from the apostles or to support my revelation
lol I don't understand.
Here is proof of apostolic succession:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Coptic_Orthodox_Popes_of_Alexandria
How do u know this history is true and someone did not make it up
How are we sure of any history? Many church fathers mention apostolic succession. Irenaeus and Tertullian seem to rely on this argument heavily. Another way apostolic succession works is by tracing the teaching AND worship. You can find the same teaching from St Ignatius of Antioch that you find in our church today. You can read St. Cyprian and see his thought reflected in the teachings of St. John Chrysostom or St Cyril of Alexandria. Then fast forward to today, and still the same. Apostolic succession is not just successive ordination, but successive doctrine, teaching, and worship.
A great example of this comes from the EOTC. The protestants attacked them by pulling a beggar off the street, cleaning him up, and paying him to pretend he was a bishop from a church in the countryside. The EOTC pulled out their records to not only show this man was never a bishop, but that the church he claimed to be from did not even exist, ever. The EOTC showed that they have always kept a detailed record of their bishops and priests since their founding. I am sure this is the same for all or most of the Orthodox churches.
In the new book I am working on I list the patriarchs of the coptic church, from the beginning to our current patriarch.
where is it proved? Show me the verses are they vague or clear? I know it existed at the time of the apostles but does it exist now?
If it existed at the time of the apostles what would make it stop? Is it just your claim?
Same reason I wonder why miracles have stopped imikhail
They did not. They only stopped for you .. again your claim.
Why are the blind not healed today? Why are the dead not risen? Now I must attack Jesus miracles why did he not heal a leg which was chopped off?
Give me evidence that all the blind were healed at the time of Jesus. Your argument is silly.