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Bishop's staff?
Can someone explain to me what the deal with this staff pictured below is?
A chanter was walking along the bishop throughout the liturgy holding the staff. I have never seen this before in prior visits from HG. . .maybe has something to do with the ordination of the new priest?
Thanks in advance.
A chanter was walking along the bishop throughout the liturgy holding the staff. I have never seen this before in prior visits from HG. . .maybe has something to do with the ordination of the new priest?
Thanks in advance.
Comments
when HGBY prayed Nativity with our church this year, he had that staff, and a deacon followed him with it the entire liturgy, including holding it for the entirety of the sermons after the gospel. I felt bad for him lol
Note: I still don't know what it means
And the projector screen in the photo morcousw uploaded is above, over and on top of Christ the ruler... hahahaha.. no need for more debate about this.. just a sad state of affairs..
Dear Andrew,
So do you live in California? You may pm me if you're too shy to answer here..
Oujai
The staff, more accurately the Bronze serpent, is taken from Numbers 21:8 "The LORD said to Moses, “Make a snake and put it up on a pole; anyone who is bitten can look at it and live.”" Jesus reciting the Torah to Nicodemus says "Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness, so the Son of Man must be lifted up," John 3:14. In other words, whoever looks at Christ's crucifixion is looking at Christ and he lives, just like God granted to the Israelites in Moses' time. The Bronze serpent, therefore, becomes the icon or typology of Christ who gives life to anyone who looks at Him and believes. As an icon is the living image of Christ, so the Bishop is also a type and image of Christ (Psalm 110:4, Hebrews 5, 7). Therefore, when the Bishop speaks, the life-giving words are coming from Christ and they will heal spiritual sicknesses, just like the Bronze serpent healed physical sicknesses. Therefore, the Church holds the Bronze serpent to say Christ is in our presence, which is especially true when a bishop blesses us with His presence.
Does that make sense?
i was once at a liturgy with 2 bishops (was almost speechless from excitement!) and they didn't put their staffs anywhere prominent. but maybe i was just too excited to notice...
Remnkemi,
Why don't they put all 12 apostles, or 11 excluding Judas? And who are the six?
Sorry for sidetracking the topic, This stuff is so interesting
CS, I have no idea why there is six icons. I would have to take a closer look. I think that "sedra" is for bishops only. Pope Shenouda has one like it but it has 4 icons of the "4 incorporeal creatures" with the evangelists heads. ILSM would know better than me.
But why does a chanter have to walk around carrying it, why not the bishop himself?
Secondly, why is it only brought out on special occasions?
Dear Andrew,
So do you live in California? You may pm me if you're too shy to answer here..
Oujai
Yes I do.
Oujai
Thanks Andrew.. we could've met already as I was there in November.. I guess it's better to pm you, a bit later as I have a career changing exam this Thursday.. ok?
Oujai
I'll take the blessing, brother. Whenever you're in the area let me know. Hope your exam goes well.
The staff is a sign of the bishop's office, commission, and authority.
The one carrying the staff, should be a full deacon--he is known as (guess what?)--the staffbearer. It is an honor, of course, despite the weight.
The bishop can only present that staff within his jurisdiction.
Mabsoota,
London--UK (for the Copts) is a jurisdiction of HH. No Coptic Bishop may present his staff in that jurisdiction.
The Sidriya (or Sedra) is for the priests and bishops. In Bp. Serapion's case, and from the picture, those are 6 of the 12 apostles. The picture is cropped (cuts out the other 6). Bishops as well as priest should be vested fully in the Divine Liturgy. The staff should be at the side of the bishop at all times. The staff is presented to the bishop at the seating to the Diocese that he is given.
It (the staff) is for special occasions, ie, every Liturgy is special.
There should be a bishop's staff in every church.
The staff is a sign of the bishop's office, commission, and authority.
The one carrying the staff, should be a full deacon--he is known as (guess what?)--the staffbearer. It is an honor, of course, despite the weight.
Is there a similar tradition in the Catholic church?
The Latin Popes use a walking staff with a large Crucifix at the top to specifically identify that they are not just a bishop but are also the Vicars of Christ (you know--Bishop of the Bishops).
The Armenians, use the Brazen serpent staff for "doctors of the Church"--Vartabed. A Vartabed is from the priestly level and not the episcopal level.
Addenda:
1. Regular priests are not allowed to have representations of the Apostles on the Sidriya.
2. Bishops also have walking staffs (similar to the concept, but not appearance, of the Shepherd's staff in the Latin Church)
edit: didnt see ilovesaintmark's post which pretty much says what I just said. Sorry!
[quote author=ophadece link=topic=12820.msg150619#msg150619 date=1326833731]
Thanks Andrew.. we could've met already as I was there in November.. I guess it's better to pm you, a bit later as I have a career changing exam this Thursday.. ok?
Oujai
I'll take the blessing, brother. Whenever you're in the area let me know. Hope your exam goes well.
My uncle is one of the priests at that church Andrew.
[quote author=Andrew link=topic=12820.msg150620#msg150620 date=1326834059]
[quote author=ophadece link=topic=12820.msg150619#msg150619 date=1326833731]
Thanks Andrew.. we could've met already as I was there in November.. I guess it's better to pm you, a bit later as I have a career changing exam this Thursday.. ok?
Oujai
I'll take the blessing, brother. Whenever you're in the area let me know. Hope your exam goes well.
My uncle is one of the priests at that church Andrew.
No way! Small world!
There should be a bishop's staff in every church.
The staff is a sign of the bishop's office, commission, and authority.
The one carrying the staff, should be a full deacon--he is known as (guess what?)--the staffbearer. It is an honor, of course, despite the weight.
The bishop can only present that staff within his jurisdiction.
Mabsoota,
London--UK (for the Copts) is a jurisdiction of HH. No Coptic Bishop may present his staff in that jurisdiction.
The Sidriya (or Sedra) is for the priests and bishops. In Bp. Serapion's case, and from the picture, those are 6 of the 12 apostles. The picture is cropped (cuts out the other 6). Bishops as well as priest should be vested fully in the Divine Liturgy. The staff should be at the side of the bishop at all times. The staff is presented to the bishop at the seating to the Diocese that he is given.
It (the staff) is for special occasions, ie, every Liturgy is special.
ilsm,
Bishop Serapion usually brings a staff which is different than this one. . .what are the different staffs he has and what are the differences? Thank you.
There is usually a black ebony staff with a white or decorated top as I alluded to previously. This is a walking staff (pastoral staff) similar to the shepherd's crook. Is this what you mean?
Staff differences?
✞✞✞
The Armenian Archbishop is not showing disrespect for the Pope's jurisdiction. The Armenians have a different tradition of the bishop always presenting his staff of authority and that it is not a symbol of intrusion on jurisdiction.
N.B.:
(1) If I am not mistaken that the picture was taken in the vestibule of the Archangel Michael & St Mina Coptic Orthodox Church in Staten Island, NY--making it a jurisdiction of the Venerable and Holy Father, Pope Shenouda III.
(2) Mor Kyrillos is a disciple of Pope Shenouda III. He was delegated to the Monastery of St. Bishoy in the Western Desert for two years, prior to returning to Syria and being ordained to the rank of Archbishop for service in the United States to replace the thrice blessed and reposed Archbishop Mor Athanasius Yeshue Samuel.
(3) The Syrians prefer the use of the Syriac form "Mor" vs using "Mar" (being Arabic).
(4) Archbishop Khajag's vestments were made in Etchmiadzin; Bishop David's vestments were made at the Monastery of Abu Sefein; Archbishop Kyrillos vestments were made in Kerala--India (in case anyone was wondering)....and, no, I was not there at that service.
and do they ever use both at the same time?
the photo was lovely by the way.
:)
Armenians: No, only one staff.
Other Orthodox: Yes
You can think of the two staffs as being: (1) Liturgical and (1) for all other purposes. That is probably the easiest simplification.