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Do Christians believe in Luck?
Hi,
What is the view of the Coptic Orthodox Church concerning luck?
Do you as Christians believe in "luck" or do you believe that everything is God's will?
For example.. 15 people are standing in the street minding their own business. 1 gets killed by a terrorist. Was that just bad luck, or was it God's will?
Surely, not everything is God's Will?? Some disasters happen that have nothing to do with God, do you agree with this statement, or do you disagree??
Thanks
What is the view of the Coptic Orthodox Church concerning luck?
Do you as Christians believe in "luck" or do you believe that everything is God's will?
For example.. 15 people are standing in the street minding their own business. 1 gets killed by a terrorist. Was that just bad luck, or was it God's will?
Surely, not everything is God's Will?? Some disasters happen that have nothing to do with God, do you agree with this statement, or do you disagree??
Thanks
Comments
I use the word 'luck(y)' quite frequently when I'm talking, but I don't really believe in luck.
I think God's only will is for people to go to heaven, not whether they escape a terrorist attack or live in a certain country without disasters.
I also believe God tries to wake us up every now and then, ie: if one is starting to drift away from the church, something unfortunate might happen so they can come back, or if someone is used to praying a lot, then gets lazy and stops, something unfortunate might happen so they realize the power of prayer and how much their lives depended on it..etc.
And what about other things? Like, if someone wins the lottery, is that just good luck or ..? And what about the Titanic?? Remember the
"Titanic" disaster? --> http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/4061067/Cruise-ship-sinks-news-At-least-6-die-on-Costa-Concordia.html
Is that God's will (punishment or something) or is it just bad luck (I don't think it is bad luck actually)? And what about the poor children who are dying in Africa??? I really wonder.. if this is God's will?? But what did these children do wrong that this happens? (Sorry, I am now a little bit off topic, but: isn't that unfair for these poor/sick children? It isn't their fault that people are sinning, if it's a punishment from God, is it?)
And something simple: if I lost my earring or keys (usally I call Anba Youannes, cause he is famous for returning your stuff back if u lost it! I saw it in a movie too.) And I found it: good luck or God?
Etc etc....
Read my last post. I said God's only will is for people to go to Heaven.
And something simple: if I lost my earring or keys (usally I call Anba Youannes, cause he is famous for returning your stuff back if u lost it! I saw it in a movie too.) And I found it: good luck or God?
Etc etc....
Two things:
-the saint's name is Anba Wannas
-if you pray for something, and get what you wanted, why would you question if it was luck??
Surely, not everything is God's Will?? Some disasters happen that have nothing to do with God, do you agree with this statement, or do you disagree??
I disagree everything is God's will, because nothing happen without God's will. If not so, then he is not a God! God have the best plan for us. "For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, says the LORD, thoughts of peace and not of evil, to give you a future and a hope. " Jeremiah 29:11. Some events in our life are just complication events like in story plots; they lead to the ultimate goal. Also, Proverbs 16:33 seems to agree with me...
There is a difference between 'will' and 'permission'.
Yes there is... I donot see where are you going with this. May you elaborate a little more?
For example.. 15 people are standing in the street minding their own business. 1 gets killed by a terrorist. Was that just bad luck, or was it God's will?
If we take this example, the fact that someone gets killed is not a question of luck, as it is a result of deliberate human action (assuming that the terrorist is able to shoot well enough).
Yet if 15 people are standing in a row, and the terrorist shoots the man in the middle, this is just bad luck (or God's permission if you will), as the man in the middle just randomly stood in the middle, the distribution of people in the row of 15 is completely random.
I don't know if this is the Orthodox view, but I think it makes sense.
]
I'm not sure about will after reading the posts.
But if someone is standing in the middle of a large group and is the only one shot this is NOT bad luck, it was still with god's permission.
Christians do not believe in luck full stop/period. Generally speaking most things in a worldly context follow the laws of chance (mathematical), but in the end they are God's laws, which he may alter at any time.
God is with us in all that happens, the good and the 'bad' (i mean stuff we think is bad like getting into the wrong university or loosing money). if we follow Him in all situations, He will give us His peace no matter what happens.
eg. i know of a family whose little baby died in the womb more than half way through the pregnancy. we were very sad at the time and could not explain it, but said 'it must be God's will and later, in heaven we will understand it'.
well many years later the father became bad and started stealing money and doing all sorts of sin. the older children were affected by this and always making excuses for why it was ok to do what he did, instead of recognising it was wrong. so the little child was spared from having to grow up in this family. maybe he/she would have turned from God and gone to hell if he/she had lived in that family.
another example (less scary) - if someone's relationship ended and he/she was about to get married, then we could be really sad about that, but maybe later we would see that the husband/wife was turing from the church, not letting the spouse fast and go to church etc. so that person was better to stay single.
i also know someone (catholic) who was not that enthusiastic about God until he nearly died in a really horrible accident. he spent months in hospital and had many operations.
before the accident, he was comfortable with a nice house and family, and planning for his retirement.
after, when he was able to walk again, he found a new meaning to life, and now spends his free time being very grateful to God and travelling a lot to help poor people with his skills and working for free. it was amazing to see the change in and to know that he was helping very many people with his new love for people that he received from God after his accident.
so these are all real examples of people i know.
as we say in arabic:
kull fee yad rabina
everything is in God's hands.
:)
a) What's the probability of choosing 1 SPECIFIC coin from a bag containing 10 coins of equal size?
This is pure probability. If I don't get that coin, or if I do, its all down to luck.
This has NOTHING to do with God.
When I studied advanced mathematics and statistics, there was no chapter there called ".. all this depends on God's will".
What do you mean also by "God's Permission"????
What is this?
You say that God permits things to happen. Why? What if he doesn't?? Then you've literally blamed Him for something He didn't intend. God doesn't interfere in man's will.
If I go off and shoot at random at a group of 10 men, and 1 dies, what does this have to do with God? You will tell yourselves: "God allowed him to die" - ?Huh???
Let's say they were all Christian men coming out of Church... and I killed one of them (AT RANDOM).
The family of those who did not die, what will they say to themselveS: "oH!! THANK GOD, THANK YOU GOD FOR NOT ALLOWING MY SON TO DIE"
And what will the family of the one who died say to themselves: "Ahh... This misery that we are living in is our fault because God wants to teach us a lesson, as He's allowed this to happen".
This is all BAD LUCK.
I believe that there is a "GOD EFFECT" and that is when you pray for something.
For example, if I pray that God helps me for something, and then I find that I have had help in my problem, then I can believe that this is from God, its not luck.
But there is luck: There is chance,
Let's say I play the lottery: I have the SAME amount of chance of winning as anyone else. If someone else wins, it isn't because God loves Him and he loves me, but wanted to teach me a lesson in not gambling.. it has NOTHING to do with that. Its just LUCK.
next time i crash my car, i might die. today, i didn't.
(so when i do, u can tell my friends, 'don't worry, she was ready to die and is remembering you before the throne of God. but pray for her, as she was also a sinner and only died now to stop her doing any worse sin later on.)
when God lets someone win at gambling, it's to punish that person by allowing the enemy to tempt him with fame and fortune. it's not good luck, it's a bad result of a bad set of decisions by that guy (or woman). i hope i never win at gambling. in fact i want so much not to win, that i don't play. that way i decrease my exposure to temptations of self glory.
do u think God put the stars in place but doesn't bother with the small things? it was the small things (heat of various gases, shape of the universe, existence of black holes, speed of light etc.) that resulted in the stars being in place.
everything in the universe and in all creation is governed by small things. how much more is God involved in the small things that affect the ones He loves? or why does it say in matthew 10:30 that all the hairs of our head are numbered?
i think it is because He is completely in control.
i don't think we should be extreme and waste our time praying what colour socks God wants us to wear in the morning (!) but in fact the events of our day are in God's control. he doesn't 'want' some psycho to come and beat us up any more than he 'wants' us to get angry and curse the psycho. but he let that guy have free will and follow an evil life and the result of his evil life may be harm to us. we can be sure, though, that any harm that comes to us is something that can bring big spiritual blessings to us, especially if we stay close to Him and avoid the evil of cursing the psycho. anyway it's a big subject, so i'll leave it here for now.
I think we have free will, so that could also mean other things could happen freely as well.
actually, the time we die is arranged by God.
next time i crash my car, i might die. today, i didn't.
(so when i do, u can tell my friends, 'don't worry, she was ready to die and is remembering you before the throne of God. but pray for her, as she was also a sinner and only died now to stop her doing any worse sin later on.)
when God lets someone win at gambling, it's to punish that person by allowing the enemy to tempt him with fame and fortune. it's not good luck, it's a bad result of a bad set of decisions by that guy (or woman). i hope i never win at gambling. in fact i want so much not to win, that i don't play. that way i decrease my exposure to temptations of self glory.
do u think God put the stars in place but doesn't bother with the small things? it was the small things (heat of various gases, shape of the universe, existence of black holes, speed of light etc.) that resulted in the stars being in place.
everything in the universe and in all creation is governed by small things. how much more is God involved in the small things that affect the ones He loves? or why does it say in matthew 10:30 that all the hairs of our head are numbered?
i think it is because He is completely in control.
i don't think we should be extreme and waste our time praying what colour socks God wants us to wear in the morning (!) but in fact the events of our day are in God's control. he doesn't 'want' some psycho to come and beat us up any more than he 'wants' us to get angry and curse the psycho. but he let that guy have free will and follow an evil life and the result of his evil life may be harm to us. we can be sure, though, that any harm that comes to us is something that can bring big spiritual blessings to us, especially if we stay close to Him and avoid the evil of cursing the psycho. anyway it's a big subject, so i'll leave it here for now.
This is a very strong post Mabsoota.
You give me much to think about.
OK, let's get a few things straight and clarified:
a) What's the probability of choosing 1 SPECIFIC coin from a bag containing 10 coins of equal size?
This is pure probability. If I don't get that coin, or if I do, its all down to luck.
This has NOTHING to do with God.
When I studied advanced mathematics and statistics, there was no chapter there called ".. all this depends on God's will".
What do you mean also by "God's Permission"????
What is this?
You say that God permits things to happen. Why? What if he doesn't?? Then you've literally blamed Him for something He didn't intend. God doesn't interfere in man's will.
If I go off and shoot at random at a group of 10 men, and 1 dies, what does this have to do with God? You will tell yourselves: "God allowed him to die" - ?Huh???
Let's say they were all Christian men coming out of Church... and I killed one of them (AT RANDOM).
The family of those who did not die, what will they say to themselveS: "oH!! THANK GOD, THANK YOU GOD FOR NOT ALLOWING MY SON TO DIE"
And what will the family of the one who died say to themselves: "Ahh... This misery that we are living in is our fault because God wants to teach us a lesson, as He's allowed this to happen.
God is the controller of all things. He permits all things, including things perceived as bad things. Of course if someone's son is in a close shave with death, his parents will praise and thank God for not allowing him to die - there is nothing strange about this.
On the other hand, someone dying in the family is not necessarily a punishment on the family - if we said that we would be putting a reason on God's actions, which we cannot often do, especially just after a dramatic event.
In terms of mathematics and science, this is not separate from God's domain. God is the ruler and controller of everything so how can this be an exception? We obviously know why there is no chapter on God in the text book, but this is not even necessary, this should be assumed knowledge in everything you do. Note that science/mathematics cannot explain itself - why does everything happen in such an orderly manner, why do most things within this framework make sense. Why, if you manage to repeat an experiment, does that mean that what you have found will always be the case? There is no explanation for these things. It's not pure luck everything you flip a coin. Before you were born, God knew the result of every coin toss in your life. Yes, it is subject to the rules of chance, but these are also subject to God (how can something not be subject to God?). In fact god created the laws of chance!
We need to make a distinction between luck and chance. Chance is mathematical, luck implies fortune telling and the sort.
[quote author=Zoxsasi link=topic=12841.msg151110#msg151110 date=1327590999]
Let's say I play the lottery: I have the SAME amount of chance of winning as anyone else. If someone else wins, it isn't because God loves Him and he loves me, but wanted to teach me a lesson in not gambling.. it has NOTHING to do with that. Its just LUCK.
No, of course God has a say in who wins the lottery. That's not to say that generally speaking, on average the laws of chance aren't followed.
All this is quite plain to me, and I don't have an issue in this area, so I hope god will reassure your heart.