[quote author=Copticandproud link=topic=12878.msg151471#msg151471 date=1328397336] If the last friday of lent is the end of the fast and palm sunday is the beginning of Pascha, shouldn't Lazarus Saturday be 'fitari'???
yes and no....yes in which we change the rite of the liturgical services on that day and no because the reason we fast lent is to celebrate the Resurrection......which is the only day/feast that breaks that fast and brings us to 50 days of non-fasting.
[quote author=minatasgeel link=topic=12878.msg151472#msg151472 date=1328402761] which is the only day/feast that breaks that fast and brings us to 50 days of non-fasting.
It took me a while to recognize what you were talking about there... lol but thank you, I guess I forgot the main reason behind lent.
Caji then technically Covenant thursday should be fitary also...
[quote author=imikhail link=topic=12878.msg151516#msg151516 date=1328552181] No abstinence of food on those days which should accompany all the fastings.
There is no abstinence of food on Saturdays and Sundays either right?
I know this is beyond the question that was asked but I think it will benefit us all if we step back and discuss fasting.
It's been my observation that people's attitude to fasting can be summarized as an unpleasant act of self-mortification while eating "fitari food" is a reward for finishing the fast. This is not Orthodoxy. In Orthodoxy, fasting is an act of joy, not because it is fun but because it is a promise we can rely on.
In Isaiah 58, it is abundantly clear what is and isn't fasting. In a nut shell, fasting is joyfully helping the oppressed, feeding the hungry, keeping "your feet from breaking the Sabbath" and "keep your feet from doing what you please on my holy day. Submitting your will and doing acts of mercy is keeping the Sabbath and it is fasting. "Call the Sabbath a delight and the LORD’s holy day honorable, and if you honor it by not going your own way and not doing as you please or speaking idle words, (which is the definition of fasting) then you will find your joy in the LORD. Isaiah 58:13
If we fast in this way, we can rely on God's promise He gave us in Isaiah 58:9: "Then you will call, and the LORD will answer; you will cry for help, and he will say: Here am I." and in Isaiah 58:14: "I will cause you to ride in triumph on the heights of the land and to feast on the inheritance of your father Jacob.” For the mouth of the LORD has spoken."
The Church recognizes that fasting is joy. That is why the first Monday of the Great Lent is in a "more joyful tune" than the rest of the weekdays because the Church is happy to start a fast. That is also why the last Friday of the Great Lent is in a more joyful tune than the rest of the weekdays because the Church is happy to have received the blessing of fasting and she is all the more closer in receiving the God's promise. That is also why on Saturdays and Sundays and most festive days we are still fasting because the Church is happy that we are living in the grace of the Old and New Testaments. That is why we fast on Wednesdays and Fridays, not to commemorate an act of treason by Judas and the crucifixion murder of Christ, but the joy we have that Christ willingly surrendered Himself at Gethsemane and died on the Cross so we can be saved.
The fulfillment of this salvation was completed in the promise of Isaiah 58:14. What is that promise we rely on? The Resurrection Feast wherein we feast on the inheritance of Jacob which is the eternal life and the resurrection from the dead. While we are riding on the triumph of heights in the land and inheritance where death has no power, we await another promise - the promise of John 14:16, the Holy Spirit. While we are enjoying the promises, we do not fast.
Breaking the fast and eating fitari food should not give us joy. Our focus should not be on how to fast, what not to eat during the fast, how many days to fast, how long to fast or what to eat when we break the fast. Rather true fasting is a joyful sacrifice of thanksgiving with acts of mercy that I freely offer to Christ.
[quote author=Remnkemi link=topic=12878.msg151544#msg151544 date=1328572463] I know this is beyond the question that was asked but I think it will benefit us all if we step back and discuss fasting.
It's been my observation that people's attitude to fasting can be summarized as an unpleasant act of self-mortification while eating "fitari food" is a reward for finishing the fast. This is not Orthodoxy. In Orthodoxy, fasting is an act of joy, not because it is fun but because it is a promise we can rely on.
In Isaiah 58, it is abundantly clear what is and isn't fasting. In a nut shell, fasting is joyfully helping the oppressed, feeding the hungry, keeping "your feet from breaking the Sabbath" and "keep your feet from doing what you please on my holy day. Submitting your will and doing acts of mercy is keeping the Sabbath and it is fasting. "Call the Sabbath a delight and the LORD’s holy day honorable, and if you honor it by not going your own way and not doing as you please or speaking idle words, (which is the definition of fasting) then you will find your joy in the LORD. Isaiah 58:13
If we fast in this way, we can rely on God's promise He gave us in Isaiah 58:9: "Then you will call, and the LORD will answer; you will cry for help, and he will say: Here am I." and in Isaiah 58:14: "I will cause you to ride in triumph on the heights of the land and to feast on the inheritance of your father Jacob.” For the mouth of the LORD has spoken."
The Church recognizes that fasting is joy. That is why the first Monday of the Great Lent is in a "more joyful tune" than the rest of the weekdays because the Church is happy to start a fast. That is also why the last Friday of the Great Lent is in a more joyful tune than the rest of the weekdays because the Church is happy to have received the blessing of fasting and she is all the more closer in receiving the God's promise. That is also why on Saturdays and Sundays and most festive days we are still fasting because the Church is happy that we are living in the grace of the Old and New Testaments. That is why we fast on Wednesdays and Fridays, not to commemorate an act of treason by Judas and the crucifixion murder of Christ, but the joy we have that Christ willingly surrendered Himself at Gethsemane and died on the Cross so we can be saved.
The fulfillment of this salvation was completed in the promise of Isaiah 58:14. What is that promise we rely on? The Resurrection Feast wherein we feast on the inheritance of Jacob which is the eternal life and the resurrection from the dead. While we are riding on the triumph of heights in the land and inheritance where death has no power, we await another promise - the promise of John 14:16, the Holy Spirit. While we are enjoying the promises, we do not fast.
Breaking the fast and eating fitari food should not give us joy. Our focus should not be on how to fast, what not to eat during the fast, how many days to fast, how long to fast or what to eat when we break the fast. Rather true fasting is a joyful sacrifice of thanksgiving with acts of mercy that I freely offer to Christ.
Does this make sense?
Thanks for such a great comment. Also, it is worth of adding what my FOC told me. He said that fasting should not be about whether the food is vegan or not. It should be about controling your lusts. He also told me about a monk who used to not eat certain vegan food just because he liked it.
[quote author=Copticandproud link=topic=12878.msg151531#msg151531 date=1328562590] [quote author=imikhail link=topic=12878.msg151516#msg151516 date=1328552181] No abstinence of food on those days which should accompany all the fastings.
There is no abstinence of food on Saturdays and Sundays either right?
That is correct. This is why we say that there is no fasting on Lazarus Day, Palm Sunday, but really what we mean is the abstinence.
The only Saturday in which abstinence is allowed is Bright Saturday.
Comments
If the last friday of lent is the end of the fast and palm sunday is the beginning of Pascha, shouldn't Lazarus Saturday be 'fitari'???
yes and no....yes in which we change the rite of the liturgical services on that day and no because the reason we fast lent is to celebrate the Resurrection......which is the only day/feast that breaks that fast and brings us to 50 days of non-fasting.
which is the only day/feast that breaks that fast and brings us to 50 days of non-fasting.
It took me a while to recognize what you were talking about there... lol but thank you, I guess I forgot the main reason behind lent.
Caji then technically Covenant thursday should be fitary also...
No abstinence of food on those days which should accompany all the fastings.
There is no abstinence of food on Saturdays and Sundays either right?
It's been my observation that people's attitude to fasting can be summarized as an unpleasant act of self-mortification while eating "fitari food" is a reward for finishing the fast. This is not Orthodoxy. In Orthodoxy, fasting is an act of joy, not because it is fun but because it is a promise we can rely on.
In Isaiah 58, it is abundantly clear what is and isn't fasting. In a nut shell, fasting is joyfully helping the oppressed, feeding the hungry, keeping "your feet from breaking the Sabbath" and "keep your feet from doing what you please on my holy day. Submitting your will and doing acts of mercy is keeping the Sabbath and it is fasting. "Call the Sabbath a delight and the LORD’s holy day honorable, and if you honor it by not going your own way and not doing as you please or speaking idle words, (which is the definition of fasting) then you will find your joy in the LORD. Isaiah 58:13
If we fast in this way, we can rely on God's promise He gave us in Isaiah 58:9: "Then you will call, and the LORD will answer; you will cry for help, and he will say: Here am I." and in Isaiah 58:14: "I will cause you to ride in triumph on the heights of the land and to feast on the inheritance of your father Jacob.” For the mouth of the LORD has spoken."
The Church recognizes that fasting is joy. That is why the first Monday of the Great Lent is in a "more joyful tune" than the rest of the weekdays because the Church is happy to start a fast. That is also why the last Friday of the Great Lent is in a more joyful tune than the rest of the weekdays because the Church is happy to have received the blessing of fasting and she is all the more closer in receiving the God's promise. That is also why on Saturdays and Sundays and most festive days we are still fasting because the Church is happy that we are living in the grace of the Old and New Testaments. That is why we fast on Wednesdays and Fridays, not to commemorate an act of treason by Judas and the crucifixion murder of Christ, but the joy we have that Christ willingly surrendered Himself at Gethsemane and died on the Cross so we can be saved.
The fulfillment of this salvation was completed in the promise of Isaiah 58:14. What is that promise we rely on? The Resurrection Feast wherein we feast on the inheritance of Jacob which is the eternal life and the resurrection from the dead. While we are riding on the triumph of heights in the land and inheritance where death has no power, we await another promise - the promise of John 14:16, the Holy Spirit. While we are enjoying the promises, we do not fast.
Breaking the fast and eating fitari food should not give us joy. Our focus should not be on how to fast, what not to eat during the fast, how many days to fast, how long to fast or what to eat when we break the fast. Rather true fasting is a joyful sacrifice of thanksgiving with acts of mercy that I freely offer to Christ.
Does this make sense?
I know this is beyond the question that was asked but I think it will benefit us all if we step back and discuss fasting.
It's been my observation that people's attitude to fasting can be summarized as an unpleasant act of self-mortification while eating "fitari food" is a reward for finishing the fast. This is not Orthodoxy. In Orthodoxy, fasting is an act of joy, not because it is fun but because it is a promise we can rely on.
In Isaiah 58, it is abundantly clear what is and isn't fasting. In a nut shell, fasting is joyfully helping the oppressed, feeding the hungry, keeping "your feet from breaking the Sabbath" and "keep your feet from doing what you please on my holy day. Submitting your will and doing acts of mercy is keeping the Sabbath and it is fasting. "Call the Sabbath a delight and the LORD’s holy day honorable, and if you honor it by not going your own way and not doing as you please or speaking idle words, (which is the definition of fasting) then you will find your joy in the LORD. Isaiah 58:13
If we fast in this way, we can rely on God's promise He gave us in Isaiah 58:9: "Then you will call, and the LORD will answer; you will cry for help, and he will say: Here am I." and in Isaiah 58:14: "I will cause you to ride in triumph on the heights of the land and to feast on the inheritance of your father Jacob.” For the mouth of the LORD has spoken."
The Church recognizes that fasting is joy. That is why the first Monday of the Great Lent is in a "more joyful tune" than the rest of the weekdays because the Church is happy to start a fast. That is also why the last Friday of the Great Lent is in a more joyful tune than the rest of the weekdays because the Church is happy to have received the blessing of fasting and she is all the more closer in receiving the God's promise. That is also why on Saturdays and Sundays and most festive days we are still fasting because the Church is happy that we are living in the grace of the Old and New Testaments. That is why we fast on Wednesdays and Fridays, not to commemorate an act of treason by Judas and the crucifixion murder of Christ, but the joy we have that Christ willingly surrendered Himself at Gethsemane and died on the Cross so we can be saved.
The fulfillment of this salvation was completed in the promise of Isaiah 58:14. What is that promise we rely on? The Resurrection Feast wherein we feast on the inheritance of Jacob which is the eternal life and the resurrection from the dead. While we are riding on the triumph of heights in the land and inheritance where death has no power, we await another promise - the promise of John 14:16, the Holy Spirit. While we are enjoying the promises, we do not fast.
Breaking the fast and eating fitari food should not give us joy. Our focus should not be on how to fast, what not to eat during the fast, how many days to fast, how long to fast or what to eat when we break the fast. Rather true fasting is a joyful sacrifice of thanksgiving with acts of mercy that I freely offer to Christ.
Does this make sense?
Thanks for such a great comment. Also, it is worth of adding what my FOC told me. He said that fasting should not be about whether the food is vegan or not. It should be about controling your lusts. He also told me about a monk who used to not eat certain vegan food just because he liked it.
[quote author=imikhail link=topic=12878.msg151516#msg151516 date=1328552181]
No abstinence of food on those days which should accompany all the fastings.
There is no abstinence of food on Saturdays and Sundays either right?
That is correct. This is why we say that there is no fasting on Lazarus Day, Palm Sunday, but really what we mean is the abstinence.
The only Saturday in which abstinence is allowed is Bright Saturday.