I have read it somewhere but I can not remember. It said that the week of fasting before the 40 days is a make-up for the Saturdays that we cannot have absentinanc. If that true, should not we have two weeks to make-up for Sundays too?
Hello, Blessed acceptable Lent (u-nisdeya as-shab) It's been a while since I posed on here.
[quote author=Copticandproud link=topic=12924.msg152119#msg152119 date=1329494915] I have read it somewhere but I can not remember. It said that the week of fasting before the 40 days is a make-up for the Saturdays that we cannot have absentinanc. If that true, should not we have two weeks to make-up for Sundays too?
If that's how you want to look at it, the second week would be Holy Week, which is now counted as part of the 40 days of Lent.
(note: where the article says the church of alexandria fasted for six weeks, the meaning is six weeks plus Holy week, not including...so it was seven weeks if you include Holy week. This is where the tradition of Last Friday of lent came from (the friday before Lazarus Saturday) and still remains, but doesn't really apply anymore)
[quote author=sifaing link=topic=12924.msg152196#msg152196 date=1329596232] Hope I didn't just confuse you even more.
You did. lol
[quote author=sifaing link=topic=12924.msg152196#msg152196 date=1329596232] If that's how you want to look at it, the second week would be Holy Week, which is now counted as part of the 40 days of Lent.
This can not be. The article said that they were two different fasts and were later combined. In that case, Lent should be 8 weeks plus the Holy week...
I'll just try to explain the chronology here. Lent has gone through three phases in the history of our church.
Phase I: Lent used to start on Tubah 12, which is the day after Theophany, and it lasted for 6 weeks. Then people would fast again for Holy Week whenever it came later in the year.
Phase II: Some time later, it was agreed to move Lent so that it is right before Holy Week. So the fast became 7 weeks (6 weeks of Lent + 1 week of Holy Week). This meant Lent started on a Monday and ended on Friday (6*7-2=40). This is where we get the Last Friday of Lent from. The Catholic church still follows this, except they start on Ash Wednesday and end it on Palm Sunday, then they fast one more week for Holy Week
Phase III. Again, some time later, The tradition of Jerusalem, which is 8 weeks long, was adopted by the Copts, and then finally by the Coptic church, and the one currently used. This way, the fast for Holy Week and Lent are combined into 1 fast called Great Lent (8 weeks * 5 weekdays =40 days of abstinence.). We only count the weekdays because we cannot abstain on Saturdays and Sundays. By the way, In order to be able to calculate 40 days of lent and 1 week for Holy Week, many in our church now teach that the first week is a preparation week (which to me doesn't make sense because how can you prepare for fasting by more fasting?)
So, in conclusion, we fast 8 weeks, including Holy Week. This is how we fast 40 days of Lent. You can kind of say that the Holy Week Fast has been engulfed in the Lenten fast (The two have become one...haha)
[quote author=Copticandproud link=topic=12924.msg152197#msg152197 date=1329596906] In that case, Lent should be 8 weeks plus the Holy week...
Be careful before you try to prolong Lent even more...you're gonna anger a lot of people...LOL.
[quote author=sifaing link=topic=12924.msg152208#msg152208 date=1329625093] Haha. Ok...Sorry for confusing you.
I'll just try to explain the chronology here. Lent has gone through three phases in the history of our church.
Phase I: Lent used to start on Tubah 12, which is the day after Theophany, and it lasted for 6 weeks. Then people would fast again for Holy Week whenever it came later in the year.
Phase II: Some time later, it was agreed to move Lent so that it is right before Holy Week. So the fast became 7 weeks (6 weeks of Lent + 1 week of Holy Week). This meant Lent started on a Monday and ended on Friday (6*7-2=40). This is where we get the Last Friday of Lent from. The Catholic church still follows this, except they start on Ash Wednesday and end it on Palm Sunday, then they fast one more week for Holy Week
Phase III. Again, some time later, The tradition of Jerusalem, which is 8 weeks long, was adopted by the Copts, and then finally by the Coptic church, and the one currently used. This way, the fast for Holy Week and Lent are combined into 1 fast called Great Lent (8 weeks * 5 weekdays =40 days of abstinence.). We only count the weekdays because we cannot abstain on Saturdays and Sundays. By the way, In order to be able to calculate 40 days of lent and 1 week for Holy Week, many in our church now teach that the first week is a preparation week (which to me doesn't make sense because how can you prepare for fasting by more fasting?)
So, in conclusion, we fast 8 weeks, including Holy Week. This is how we fast 40 days of Lent. You can kind of say that the Holy Week Fast has been engulfed in the Lenten fast (The two have become one...haha)
Thanks for the history, but if this is right then all of the terms we use are completely mis-leading... Preparation week, Friday the ending of the fast (gome3t 5tam el som) and the different rites for Lazurus Saturday... It just does not seem right.
[quote author=sifaing link=topic=12924.msg152208#msg152208 date=1329625093] [quote author=Copticandproud link=topic=12924.msg152197#msg152197 date=1329596906] In that case, Lent should be 8 weeks plus the Holy week...
Be careful before you try to prolong Lent even more...you're gonna anger a lot of people...LOL.
In Christ, Sifaing
I still stand my request. I will fight for it... only if I am not dead by tomorrow lol
[quote author=Copticandproud link=topic=12924.msg152209#msg152209 date=1329626570] Thanks for the history, but if this is right then all of the terms we use are completely mis-leading... Preparation week, Friday the ending of the fast (gome3t 5tam el som) and the different rites for Lazurus Saturday... It just does not seem right.
You're right, they are misleading. The Last friday of lent is a remnant of how it used to be. But it's ok, since the last week all the rites change anyways into Holy Week rites. So you can kind of say that it's the Last Friday of using the Lenten hymns. When it comes to Lazarus Saturday, maybe the rites should be Lenten, but it's kind of a feast in the church, so it's ok to switch to annual rites for that day. The other feast where we use annual rites is Holy Thursday and Bright Saturday, so it's not totally off.
I don't know where the whole preparation week thing came from.
Comments
Blessed acceptable Lent (u-nisdeya as-shab)
It's been a while since I posed on here.
[quote author=Copticandproud link=topic=12924.msg152119#msg152119 date=1329494915]
I have read it somewhere but I can not remember. It said that the week of fasting before the 40 days is a make-up for the Saturdays that we cannot have absentinanc. If that true, should not we have two weeks to make-up for Sundays too?
If that's how you want to look at it, the second week would be Holy Week, which is now counted as part of the 40 days of Lent.
The following article gives some more detail.
http://www.michellabs.com/joomla/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=50:40-days-and-40-nights-&catid=25:faith-and-evangelism&Itemid=22&lang=en
(note: where the article says the church of alexandria fasted for six weeks, the meaning is six weeks plus Holy week, not including...so it was seven weeks if you include Holy week. This is where the tradition of Last Friday of lent came from (the friday before Lazarus Saturday) and still remains, but doesn't really apply anymore)
Hope I didn't just confuse you even more.
oujai
Sifaing
Hope I didn't just confuse you even more.
You did. lol
[quote author=sifaing link=topic=12924.msg152196#msg152196 date=1329596232]
If that's how you want to look at it, the second week would be Holy Week, which is now counted as part of the 40 days of Lent.
This can not be. The article said that they were two different fasts and were later combined. In that case, Lent should be 8 weeks plus the Holy week...
I'll just try to explain the chronology here. Lent has gone through three phases in the history of our church.
Phase I:
Lent used to start on Tubah 12, which is the day after Theophany, and it lasted for 6 weeks. Then people would fast again for Holy Week whenever it came later in the year.
Phase II:
Some time later, it was agreed to move Lent so that it is right before Holy Week. So the fast became 7 weeks (6 weeks of Lent + 1 week of Holy Week). This meant Lent started on a Monday and ended on Friday (6*7-2=40). This is where we get the Last Friday of Lent from. The Catholic church still follows this, except they start on Ash Wednesday and end it on Palm Sunday, then they fast one more week for Holy Week
Phase III.
Again, some time later, The tradition of Jerusalem, which is 8 weeks long, was adopted by the Copts, and then finally by the Coptic church, and the one currently used. This way, the fast for Holy Week and Lent are combined into 1 fast called Great Lent (8 weeks * 5 weekdays =40 days of abstinence.). We only count the weekdays because we cannot abstain on Saturdays and Sundays.
By the way, In order to be able to calculate 40 days of lent and 1 week for Holy Week, many in our church now teach that the first week is a preparation week (which to me doesn't make sense because how can you prepare for fasting by more fasting?)
So, in conclusion, we fast 8 weeks, including Holy Week. This is how we fast 40 days of Lent. You can kind of say that the Holy Week Fast has been engulfed in the Lenten fast (The two have become one...haha)
[quote author=Copticandproud link=topic=12924.msg152197#msg152197 date=1329596906]
In that case, Lent should be 8 weeks plus the Holy week...
Be careful before you try to prolong Lent even more...you're gonna anger a lot of people...LOL.
In Christ,
Sifaing
Haha. Ok...Sorry for confusing you.
I'll just try to explain the chronology here. Lent has gone through three phases in the history of our church.
Phase I:
Lent used to start on Tubah 12, which is the day after Theophany, and it lasted for 6 weeks. Then people would fast again for Holy Week whenever it came later in the year.
Phase II:
Some time later, it was agreed to move Lent so that it is right before Holy Week. So the fast became 7 weeks (6 weeks of Lent + 1 week of Holy Week). This meant Lent started on a Monday and ended on Friday (6*7-2=40). This is where we get the Last Friday of Lent from. The Catholic church still follows this, except they start on Ash Wednesday and end it on Palm Sunday, then they fast one more week for Holy Week
Phase III.
Again, some time later, The tradition of Jerusalem, which is 8 weeks long, was adopted by the Copts, and then finally by the Coptic church, and the one currently used. This way, the fast for Holy Week and Lent are combined into 1 fast called Great Lent (8 weeks * 5 weekdays =40 days of abstinence.). We only count the weekdays because we cannot abstain on Saturdays and Sundays.
By the way, In order to be able to calculate 40 days of lent and 1 week for Holy Week, many in our church now teach that the first week is a preparation week (which to me doesn't make sense because how can you prepare for fasting by more fasting?)
So, in conclusion, we fast 8 weeks, including Holy Week. This is how we fast 40 days of Lent. You can kind of say that the Holy Week Fast has been engulfed in the Lenten fast (The two have become one...haha)
Thanks for the history, but if this is right then all of the terms we use are completely mis-leading... Preparation week, Friday the ending of the fast (gome3t 5tam el som) and the different rites for Lazurus Saturday... It just does not seem right.
[quote author=sifaing link=topic=12924.msg152208#msg152208 date=1329625093]
[quote author=Copticandproud link=topic=12924.msg152197#msg152197 date=1329596906]
In that case, Lent should be 8 weeks plus the Holy week...
Be careful before you try to prolong Lent even more...you're gonna anger a lot of people...LOL.
In Christ,
Sifaing
I still stand my request. I will fight for it... only if I am not dead by tomorrow lol
Thanks for the history, but if this is right then all of the terms we use are completely mis-leading... Preparation week, Friday the ending of the fast (gome3t 5tam el som) and the different rites for Lazurus Saturday... It just does not seem right.
You're right, they are misleading. The Last friday of lent is a remnant of how it used to be. But it's ok, since the last week all the rites change anyways into Holy Week rites. So you can kind of say that it's the Last Friday of using the Lenten hymns. When it comes to Lazarus Saturday, maybe the rites should be Lenten, but it's kind of a feast in the church, so it's ok to switch to annual rites for that day. The other feast where we use annual rites is Holy Thursday and Bright Saturday, so it's not totally off.
I don't know where the whole preparation week thing came from.
In Christ,
Sifaing