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Jesus Christ, Mighty Saviour, Prince and Shepherd
Whether you like this post or not, I do not care, I only want answers
"Let the dead bury their own dead but you go and preach the gospel"
I am very attached to my family and relatives and can not bear it if any were to be eternally condemned. But if this is Christ's teaching I would like to know it for sure. But this is not the reason for my post and I will oppose knowing if eternal condemnation is Christ's teaching right now because it disturbs me and makes me not be able to live my life. I do not want demons to be saved and for them to be in heaven even if eternal condemnation means they are in heaven but they do not experience God's complete love "For it is better for that man if he had never been born" because that should not be the only way of keeping people in heaven, by saving devils or potentially harmful people
The only thing that can comfort me is the concept of eternal death for the wicked, who will fit into that category I do not care too much, if good can come out of it, or universal salvation if all men choose to repent by their own free will.
The question and reason for my post is can God keep many people in heaven for all eternity while allowing some to die? would He really find someone who would choose Him for all eternity, even when they know He has allowed some people to die? and that their only punishment for rebellion is death?
Jesus says "My sheep hear my voice and they follow Me and I give them eternal life" "And none shall be able to snatch them out of My Fathers hand" "and they will by no means follow a stranger"
For you see I love my parents so much that I do not feel drawn to Christ but I know God is my true Father, I do not know how He will comfort me regarding their death if they were to die now or when I appear before Him.
I do not yet love God more than I love my parents. Unless He makes me forget that they existed but this has disadvantages to God's safety if He was limited which I never blasphemously assume for if He was He does not know it. I care about God's safety because I believe He is worthy since I do not believe He would eternally separate poor souls but that God will cease the wicked from conscious life.
I hate the feeling that peoples salvation is dependent on me.
BTW I made an appointment with my FOC but he did not turn up but he could have forgotten because he only told me on the phone but he did not send a text message. It seems he thinks my appointment is on thursday.
There may be eternal seperation for sinners for God alone knows all things and He is the only good
I want to feel God's love, would He be able to draw me to Him and make me only listen to His voice even when someone I love has perished?
Would God be able to keep people in heaven without keeping hell as eternal?
I don't know the power of my thoughts so I hope God forgives me for I heard His mercy endures forever.
I can not handle having no peace about my own salvation.
I do not even know if anyone who has died is saved, not to mention names. How many of you people believe and know the salvation of any one's soul who has died and how do you feel about you also not really knowing how to be saved yourself in the midst of this confusion? and that many people are waiting for your blood for not saving them?
How do you feel about people teaching you to do the impossible?
"Let the dead bury their own dead but you go and preach the gospel"
I am very attached to my family and relatives and can not bear it if any were to be eternally condemned. But if this is Christ's teaching I would like to know it for sure. But this is not the reason for my post and I will oppose knowing if eternal condemnation is Christ's teaching right now because it disturbs me and makes me not be able to live my life. I do not want demons to be saved and for them to be in heaven even if eternal condemnation means they are in heaven but they do not experience God's complete love "For it is better for that man if he had never been born" because that should not be the only way of keeping people in heaven, by saving devils or potentially harmful people
The only thing that can comfort me is the concept of eternal death for the wicked, who will fit into that category I do not care too much, if good can come out of it, or universal salvation if all men choose to repent by their own free will.
The question and reason for my post is can God keep many people in heaven for all eternity while allowing some to die? would He really find someone who would choose Him for all eternity, even when they know He has allowed some people to die? and that their only punishment for rebellion is death?
Jesus says "My sheep hear my voice and they follow Me and I give them eternal life" "And none shall be able to snatch them out of My Fathers hand" "and they will by no means follow a stranger"
For you see I love my parents so much that I do not feel drawn to Christ but I know God is my true Father, I do not know how He will comfort me regarding their death if they were to die now or when I appear before Him.
I do not yet love God more than I love my parents. Unless He makes me forget that they existed but this has disadvantages to God's safety if He was limited which I never blasphemously assume for if He was He does not know it. I care about God's safety because I believe He is worthy since I do not believe He would eternally separate poor souls but that God will cease the wicked from conscious life.
I hate the feeling that peoples salvation is dependent on me.
BTW I made an appointment with my FOC but he did not turn up but he could have forgotten because he only told me on the phone but he did not send a text message. It seems he thinks my appointment is on thursday.
There may be eternal seperation for sinners for God alone knows all things and He is the only good
I want to feel God's love, would He be able to draw me to Him and make me only listen to His voice even when someone I love has perished?
Would God be able to keep people in heaven without keeping hell as eternal?
I don't know the power of my thoughts so I hope God forgives me for I heard His mercy endures forever.
I can not handle having no peace about my own salvation.
I do not even know if anyone who has died is saved, not to mention names. How many of you people believe and know the salvation of any one's soul who has died and how do you feel about you also not really knowing how to be saved yourself in the midst of this confusion? and that many people are waiting for your blood for not saving them?
How do you feel about people teaching you to do the impossible?
Comments
I think you are confusing a couple of things. First let's make something clear. God created EVERYTHING. He didn't create evil but that was a result of some 'creatures' freewill (Satan and the 1/3 of the angels falling with him). through that, evil was brought into existence that was also a result of the ultimate sin, pride. God's judgement was needed so hell was 'occupied'. On earth, when God created man, He also gave him freewill. Through that, he/she/humans choose to disobey God and that brought death into the world as a result of that sin. The death was the separation between God and man. As much as that separation appeared eternal, God promised salvation, being an all-merciful God but also an all-just God. His justice can never exceed his mercy and vice-versa. That's where His Son comes to save us.
The salvation that was granted to everyone in the world was the opportunity to become, again, part of God's flock. The gates of Paradise were reopened for the righteous to enter. The reason that there is now separation between the man (those who deserve to go to paradise and those who do not) is that we, after Adam and Eve, are born in sin. We must be cleansed of that before entering paradise. the original man didn't need to do that being created of the breath of God and not sin.
that was a long intro....wow. now to my comments:
I think you are limiting God's power and authority when you say "can God keep many people in heaven for all eternity while allowing some to die?"
God can do whatever He wants. The important thing to know hear, which i believe is the key for everything we should consider when we 'judge' God's actions is that he is all-merciful, all-just. If He created a rule, He will simply not break it. His mercy may kick-in and find a way around it but he will never break it. Why do you think that there are many murders and evil in the world?! i may say: Can't God stop all that evil in this world? many can't find an answer to this question and just hate God for it. They forget that God gave human's freewill. He will not take that away from them. If a man chooses to murder another, that is not condoned by God but He also may not stop it directly....not that He doesn't have that power but He simply will not break His own rule of giving man freewill.
So also, if man chooses to do evil and not be with God, he is on his own. God can't force people to do his will and commandments to be with Him, for as much as He wants this. again, He will be breaking His own rules.
"I hate the feeling that peoples salvation is dependent on me."
Why do you do that to yourself?! why do you burden yourself with other people's salvation?! unless you are giving the responsibility of someone's salvation from God (wife, kids, sundayschool class...etc), than you are only responsible for your salvation when you do not interfere in other's actions/decisions.
Something that may help:
God's judgement is not like grades that maybe curved based on the cumulative actions of everyone. Meaning that, despite what others do, I may or may not be good enough to enter paradise. God doesn't have an exact number of 'mansions' available for those who are saved. He is God, he can create space, matter or anything He chooses. Those who are worthy, will enter heaven despite their number and those who are not will enter hell, despite their number.
I think it is the most that I can get from a man with integrity
I can not force others to change their views and I may be wrong about my views but God is the only good.
Father Peter says we must preach the gospel. How do we convince people it is good news?
Ofcourse we do not need to, because we are not ultimately the leader of their free will. It is God's business to seek and to save the lost
I do believe if we want to ensure the salvation of our recently deceased pope we must all repent and preach the gospel if need be. God does not judge the pope for his weakness in not being able to lead the flock exacly how it should be. In that case one of the popes, the catholic or our pope must go to eternal hell, or the eastern orthodox popes
God has His sheep in the palm of His hand and no creature shall be able to seperate them from His love, only we can of we continue so forever
However we can only save those by our good deeds who only have weakness, we can not stop the future of their free will
Father Peter says we must preach the gospel. How do we convince people it is good news?
Ofcourse we do not need to, because we are not ultimately the leader of their free will. It is God's business to seek and to save the lost
Yes we must preach the Gospel in a way or another. You don't have to convince everyone. Christ Himself, the Son of God, didn't do that. He simply, as in His parable of the farmer, spreads the seed and whoever accepts and acts on it. Similar to that, we act. We live the Gospel and preach it.
Why in the rite of funeral of the pope does the pope ask that the priests remember him in the liturgy that he may obtain mercy from his Lord?
I do believe if we want to ensure the salvation of our recently deceased pope we must all repent and preach the gospel if need be. God does not judge the pope for his weakness in not being able to lead the flock exacly how it should be. In that case one of the popes, the catholic or our pope must go to eternal hell, or the eastern orthodox popes
God has His sheep in the palm of His hand and no creature shall be able to seperate them from His love, only we can of we continue so forever
However we can only save those by our good deeds who only have weakness, we can not stop the future of their free will
i think you are confusing some things....we don't 'save' anyone....we simply provide ways to others to be saved. by preaching the gospel, we show the people the Light and they follow Him; we show them the door for them to enter into the long way to paradise.
Also, we don't know how God will judge anyone. We simply know who are they responsible for. The pope is responsible for ever Coptic Orthodox soul. Their sins maybe become a burden unto him. that's why he asks for our prayers.
But I hope it is wrong
They know the truth and there is nothing stopping their acceptance of it but their own evil
I believe people are only judged when they have a witness against them
They know the truth and there is nothing stopping their acceptance of it but their own evil
but the words of the gospel that they hear will judge them. The truth they hear and don't believe will be the witness. Also how can we hide from God?!
[quote author=mikeforjesus link=topic=13079.msg153625#msg153625 date=1332692544]
You could say I am like that murderer who people hate God for not doing anything about it but God gave me free will and I am going to hell for it
But I hope it is wrong
but you can also go to paradise through it....it's like everything we have in life--things that were created for good but we misuse them.
God is eternal, so really we do have a hard desicion whether we are going to join him or stay were this world will end up. Our parents do put us in the position of living for this world. Really hard.
You shall go forth and look upon the carcasses of the men who have sinned against me for their worm does not die and their fire is not quenched
because I need time to teach you to love Me says the Lord
You shall go forth and look upon the carcasses of the men who have sinned against me for their worm does not die and their fire is not quenched
because I need time to teach you to love Me says the Lord
And if you continue to blaspheme my Holy Spirit says the Lord I have no choice to separate you from Me and you will bear it because you brought it on yourself it is just and may be the only thing a good God can do yet if He sees it better to perish you then so be it
Do not remove the possibility of eternal punishment for God may do it
Do not remove the possibility of eternal punishment for God may do it
but it is not punishment, it is a result/consequence of our choices.
If your father asked you to put your hand on a hot stove. Would you? No, because you know it's going to burn you. The difference between that and God is it's your soul that he is asking you to look after. The laws that God gave Moses still apply but superseded by Jesus Christ for the relationship of all mankind with God.
What relationship with evil do you think can be truthful? None. Just like all lies, they are found out and end there the moment they are found out. The relationship isn't true and so it is seperated. Who causes it? The liar causes the seperation but the truthful one just keeps going wanting others free will to be in communion with his own. Because it's your free will means it's for you and not anyone else that he is made it personal. Unlike laws which are for all but not on the personal level.
Maybe you don't like guilt. But really it's a guide for the conscience. Like laws the truth of this is yes means yes and no means no. The consequences of doing wrong in either do us harm.
Just like a child gets grounded when he skips school and doesn't do his homework
unless you are giving the responsibility of someone's salvation from God (wife, kids, sundayschool class...etc), than you are only responsible for your salvation when you do not interfere in other's actions/decisions.
We're in charge of the salvation of our Sunday School class?? I know we're not supposed to be a stumbling block for them, and we're not supposed to deprive them of anything that will help them grow in their spritual life, but I don't think God will hold us accountable for each of their salvation? That's like saying a Priest is accountable for each person in his congregation. :o
Plus, Sunday School is only 20 minutes a week :P
[quote author=minatasgeel link=topic=13079.msg153619#msg153619 date=1332687393]
unless you are giving the responsibility of someone's salvation from God (wife, kids, sundayschool class...etc), than you are only responsible for your salvation when you do not interfere in other's actions/decisions.
We're in charge of the salvation of our Sunday School class?? I know we're not supposed to be a stumbling block for them, and we're not supposed to deprive them of anything that will help them grow in their spritual life, but I don't think God will hold us accountable for each of their salvation? That's like saying a Priest is accountable for each person in his congregation. :o
Plus, Sunday School is only 20 minutes a week :P
well not entirely BUT they become our responsibility for that time. You can do a LOT to a child in 20 mins that can change his life for the better or worst.
why do you think I choose not to be a sunday school servant.
20 minutes is pushing it.
Wow, your sunday school is only 20 min? Ours is an hour and a half, lol. But it's before asheya so i guess they have some time to waste.
sunday school on saturday.....lol. reminds me of egypt, sunday school on friday.
I am a student in university with attention difficulties which is sometimes classified as a learning disability for obvious reasons
Now I get help from a tutor. If you are here know that you are very special to me.
But this is a cruel world where not everyone feels obliged to help one another
but I have a tutor who I love very much who is going out of his way to help me, yes for money but he could obviously find another way to make money
I go out with my tutor (please don't mock me) to different places like restaurants etc
Now I have peaceful relations with my tutor and do not force my beliefs on him, because I believe God is peace but I can't but feel for all the tutors who have ever helped me in life in school and uni, about their souls.. he is probably happy to help me because I am sensitive and not rude and judgemental of his background
obviously if I would teach that if you do not accept christ and go to my church you cannot be saved in this life ever who would bear that and want to help me? there is so many others who he could help who would be more beloved to him
The reason I am making this post is because the coptic church or possibly coptic people look down on me for living in the world and our church says you must confess regularly to go to heaven (maybe they would like me to confess getting help from a tutor- but I am worried because I am not like other copts who have forsaken worldly ambitions I can not be saved because they do not understand how unjust it seems to me to get help from a tutor and not be his friend and I feel the church looks upon me as it is possible for you to be saved but much harder, so now I am confused about how to live my life)
if I tell my FOC he could say it is okay to get help from tutors or he could say you should stop living for the world and you should depend on God only for help but he has not said that
If a priest says that he has not helped my life but , rather you have "put burdens hard to bear and will not move one of them with your fingers" and you have helped me to be misunderstood and rejected or looked down upon in the coptic community or with eyes of evil pity and you have helped me to feel despair and not receive the abundant life I believe God wanted to give me and you have ruined the purpose of school altogether and said we are not allowed to be interested in making this world move forward and a place of joy, when Jesus said.. "My house will be a house of prayer for all nations"
All the other copts do the same thing about getting help from tutors but then you have religious people condemning me for living in the world.
then the church tells me I have to fast all the long fasts which are on most of the year. I am doing that, but then I can not build a good relationship with others outside of our church. But give the impression as someone who can not have fun. When Jesus was not fasting all the time. He was accused as a glutton and a wine bibber
you can not escape your own woe's for this behaviour
My FOC tells me to always have holy communion even if I have not confessed
and also never criticised that I have tutors but he did not seem interested in it or gave a look like it is a weird problem because noone confesses that but he said I was doing good by confessing to him
and I feel there are commandments which are harming my life.
I am saying this because I know you would like me to humble myself before the church and I am told I cannot go to heaven for not fasting and confessing every sin regularly. I am just worried that God wants to make it hard to reach heaven and it may be impossible to be happy and religious at the same time according to my coptic beliefs. I want to feel proud of my hard work and I love the brotherhood in the world
Jesus says about some priests, why would it be any different now, "You have taken away the key of knowledge. You do not go into heaven and neither do you allow those entering to go in"
You must preach the whole message of God
Are you gathering with me or scattering away?
I told Father Peter recently "I hope everyone agrees, that the damned would never choose good by their free will" so preaching God's love would not harm noone
I don't know what he thinks of that
Bishop Youssef said a long time ago when I had a different tutor that God has given these tutors to me
and that I must be flexible in life and not everything is black and white
I guess I am writing this because I want the church on my side not to be a stumbling block and harm my life
Ioannes I would like to post our personal messages that was sent a long time ago 2008 or whatever when I did not believe in God's love
yet you accused me of believing in universal salvation when at that time I did not
I am not judging you dear friend I enjoyed the friendship we shared in those private messages
My message to priests is not to speak in the dark to one another but declare what you know the character of God to be and defend your church as being faithful to the bible and show how the church believed God was love
If you say trust in God to help you, He will help you. No Jesus commanded us to ask others to borrow from them
God could save me and provide his own help, but would you like God to destroy all the unbelievers who could be saved? who knows the outcome of that!
Jesus did not want not to be successful since He said the children of this world are more shrewd than the children of light
and that He has given us all talents and He promised He will bless those who give and His sun shines to the good and the evil and he plans us to be more glorious than solomon and those who are least in the kingdom which is us have more of the Holy Spirit or just as much as John the baptist
The church can only pray for the souls of those who are faithful to its guidance and will in the funeral prayer, but are they really the only ones chosen of God?
and what else is not discussed in church but looked down upon? someone who goes to restaurants, bars, shopping,bowling, football games regularly can they be saved, even though others may have become disobedient by this example? do you really accept us for this behaviour? on what grounds? where in your beliefs is it accepted?
have you not limited our life, and we are going to hell for it?
can we join learn to surf clubs? can we join chat roooms? or we are more likely to go to hell? can we join book clubs? can we go to the beach? can we go on holidays?
There is nothing wrong with going out or going on holidays. Even (non-monk) priests go on holidays.
If you have spoken about this with Bishop Youssef, and he said what he said, then you don't need to preach to this person. Bishop Youssef is a wise man. The Holy Spirit will guide you whenever the time is appropriate.
And, generally speaking, preaching should not be something that would likely cause a bad reaction from the other party. You should focus on God's love, not "if you don't do this you can go to hell".
It should also be noted that your condition you describe above may also inhibit your ability to preach, maybe this is why Hgby said what he said. You have other talents, use them.
If you have any further concerns feel free to respond, but please try to condense your response, because (forgive me) sometimes I can't be bothered to read something so long.
Human with spirirtual endevours Mike.
Does that mean there should be no servants ?
But some things need to be changed that perhaps needs the help of the congregation not just priests
I feel annoyed because I feel if I don't do my part of preaching Christ I leave an image of a despondent God I feel the world can not be changed without me
I suspect that people are bitter towards me and need to see me repent or do actions noone else can do my part because they need to see me do it
It does not seem logical but it is what I feel
Am I not the salt of the earth?
I feel I need to draw others to God and show them the beauty and wisdom of it
God is putting all the burden on me or us
We are a flock with a shepard Mike and as such we ask others to join our flock. It is because we are following the shepard and He is guiding us. Are you to forget you are part of the flock? I think you would be better to ask someone to come to our church than have someone feel defencive because of their sins.