Hades Vs Purgatory

Theophilus 1

We know that Christ descended into Hades through the Cross and preached to souls in there (1 Peter 3:18 – 20).
How is our Orthodox concept of Hades different from the Roman Catholic concept of Purgatory? Do Catholics still believe in Purgatory?

In Christ
Theophilus

Timothym

The Roman Catholic Church's teaching is that after death, all the souls of people go to Purgatory in order for their souls to be 'purged' or cleansed from all sin. While holy baptism along with confessions and communion has done so while the person was on earth, nobody dies completely sinless. Therefore in order to be cleansed from whatever sin the person has not repented from or cleansed from, he or she must go to purgatory in order for refining fire to cleanse them.

They also use the classic example of a broken window. If you break a window, you have to pay for the window until it is fixed and restored. This is the same for the soul in their opinion.

The Orthodox Church on the other hand does NOT believe in this legalistic system of paying God back etc. For an Orthodox perspective, I will direct you to Fr. Peter Farrignton's recent podcast on this matter. Enjoy! 

http://orthodoxfaith.podbean.com/2012/04/09/the-intermediate-state-of-the-soul-after-death-in-st-severus/

Ioannes

Oddly enough I found many references to purgatory in the ancient myths of the Maya, Mexica, and of course the Egyptians.

Theophilus 1

Thank you Timothy. Fr. Peter’s podcast was awesome, and it was my first time hearing his voice. I have heard that our prayer for the departed grants relief to those in Hades and joy to those in paradise. How far does this relief effort go? Does a soul (either by the prayer of those still alive or any other means) transfer from Hades to paradise?


Ioannes, for lack of a more civilized term – Western Christianity can be real weird at times. 

In Christ
Theophilus

mabsoota

we don't believe prayers allow for 'transfers'.
but only God knows where the souls are in the first place.

Timothym

[quote author=mabsoota link=topic=13162.msg154635#msg154635 date=1334611990]
we don't believe prayers allow for 'transfers'.
but only God knows where the souls are in the first place.


true, and if anything, its not so much what OUR prayers do for the departed as for the departed in Christ who pray for us. Since they are now departed and are with the Lord (although not in the coming final perfection), their prayers are also more perfect and united with the Lord and thus can assist and guide us.

servant33

What is the function of us praying for the departed? I understand this is a point of conflict with Protestant theology.

peterfarrington

It is not a simple matter to say that no souls in Hades and Paradise are helped by our prayers. On the contrary the constant and universal witness of the Orthodox Church has been that we should pray for those who have departed.

St Severus is most explicit and says....

But they are conscious of services and prayers, and especially those that are made over the bloodless sacrifice on behalf of their life; and assuredly some consolation results to them in proportion to the measure of each man's character. And they are conscious too of alms given to the poor on their behalf.

There are also many accounts in the lives of the saints which indicate the benefit which even those in Hades, rather than Paradise, are benefitted. And there are also accounts in the lives of the saints where it was shown to some that a particular soul had been released from Hades and brought to Paradise by their prayers. I can provide many such examples where constant, faithful prayer with fasting has been shown by God to be effective even in such a case.

The ancient and universally Orthodox words of the Kneeling Prayers also teach us to pray for those in Hades, and it is not understandable by me why the Synod should have chosen to excise the, from our Tradition, nor is it entirely clear to me that anyone has the authority to remove them or deny them. They are part of what Orthodoxy teaches. They say...

Who also, on this all-perfect and saving feast, are graciously pleased to accept propitiatory prayers for those who are imprisoned in hell, granting us a great hope of improvement for those who are imprisoned from the defilements which have imprisoned them, and that Thou wilt send down Thy consolation.

This is not the final hell of the resurrected, but is Hades, the gloomy place of waiting. These prayers have been prayed by Orthodox Christians, and Coptic Orthodox Christians of course, for 1600 years and form part of the Tradition.

So we pray for the dead that they might receive benefit from our prayers, whether in Paradise or Hades, in a manner we cannot know, but can believe to be effectual as God wills. And we especially pray for those recently departed that their passage through the aerial realm might be assisted by angels.

TheGodChrist

[quote author=Father Peter link=topic=13162.msg154739#msg154739 date=1334737728]
The ancient and universally Orthodox words of the Kneeling Prayers also teach us to pray for those in Hades, and it is not understandable by me why the Synod should have chosen to excise the, from our Tradition, nor is it entirely clear to me that anyone has the authority to remove them or deny them. They are part of what Orthodoxy teaches.


[quote author=Father Peter link=topic=13162.msg154739#msg154739 date=1334737728]
These prayers have been prayed by Orthodox Christians, and Coptic Orthodox Christians of course, for 1600 years and form part of the Tradition.


Was there ever a reason given for their removal? Was this question ever brought up to a hierarch? What was their response?

childoforthodoxy

I recommend that anyone curious about this topic read "Life after Death" by Met. Hierotheos Vlachos of Nafpaktos. There is a very detailed discourse contained in the latter part of the book concerning Purgatory and its refutation from an Orthodox perspective.

childoforthodoxy