I also do not agree with Sherene's assessment. Some heretics like Eutyches and Origen were both very devout Ascetics, but that does not excuse them from their innovations and errors. So your statement that "no matter how a Christian person is good or bad in theology, it would not affect his eternity", is really not true.
This is shocking. Do you know where I can read about this?
You can listen to a brief summary from Father Raphael, the disciple of Pope Kyrillos, here:
Apparently, all the metropolitans and bishops, who signed the synodal letter to eliminate Pope Kyrillos died in one year. They were twelve in number and I think that would be about 70% of the bishops at the time. God granted Pope Kyrillos a clean start and the great man wept for his enemies for they lost their salvation.
The details concerning their ugly conspiracy are to follow on pm.
Hopefully, if a monk is chosen for the Papacy, the Lord will grant him also a fresh start. If a bishop is selected by men, may God grant him to enjoy the company of his fellow members of the Holy Synod forever and ever.
But can we actually pray for their deaths?
No, of course not. Something has to be done though and here are the options we have:
1- We could pray for our own physical death so we will not get polluted by the unorthodox practices of the bishops and clergy.
We would be supported by St. Cyprian's teachings who commands us to stay away from the unfaithful clergy or we would be judged like them and be considered their partners in corruption.
We would be following the example of Bishop Alexander of Constantinople, who was ordered by Constantine to receive Arius in communion. He shut himself with his deacons in the Cathedral before the arrival of Arius, asking God to take him (Alexander) or take Arius but never allow that he would commune with a heretic.
2- Hope that the clergy and laymen repent of their Protestantism in worship and thought, but that would be a mass repentance and nothing short of Nineveh, for the cancer has eaten up the whole church. Very unlikely.
Did you see the latest unity prayers here in Toronto, hosted by Daddy P. and celebrated by most of the clergy in the GTA? There were grannies and babes worshiping heart and soul in these worship nights.
We are in communion with those people and according to St. Cyprian, we are not innocent of their crimes.
3- Try to make a difference in our own local sphere of influence, which is limited. Judging from the influence of more educated and spiritual individuals, such as Abona Tadros, and who are by far more capable of dividing the word of truth, it is not encouraging. The man lived through the last decades and his teachings, although Orthodox, did not have the desired influence on a mass level.
He visited Toronto 4 years ago in the same time the priest of DC was here. 15 people attended Abona Tadros and the rest preferred to listen to a feel-good garbage by someone else.
You know what the problem is? You cannot just teach Orthodoxy without refuting the heresies that dominates the thought of Copts and specifying their origin. In doing so, you would have to come face-to-face with unpleasant facts that no one is willing to accept. _________________________________________________________________________________ I did not include the possibility of schism because I hope it never happens, but it may be the only option for the faithful in the face of the wave of Protestantism and heretical teachings inside the Church.
You know what the problem is? You cannot just teach Orthodoxy without refuting the heresies that dominates the thought of Copts and specifying their origin. In doing so, you would have to come face-to-face with unpleasant facts that no one is willing to accept.
I agree wholeheartedly with this statement. Unfortunately, there is a Protestant wave that is overwhelming the Church. There are top clergy who are supporting this wave.
If you stand in the way, you will be pushed aside.
You know what the problem is? You cannot just teach Orthodoxy without refuting the heresies that dominates the thought of Copts and specifying their origin. In doing so, you would have to come face-to-face with unpleasant facts that no one is willing to accept.
I agree wholeheartedly with this statement. Unfortunately, there is a Protestant wave that is overwhelming the Church. There are top clergy who are supporting this wave.
If you stand in the way, you will be pushed aside. Yeah.
You know what the problem is? You cannot just teach Orthodoxy without refuting the heresies that dominates the thought of Copts and specifying their origin. In doing so, you would have to come face-to-face with unpleasant facts that no one is willing to accept.
I agree wholeheartedly with this statement. Unfortunately, there is a Protestant wave that is overwhelming the Church. There are top clergy who are supporting this wave.
If you stand in the way, you will be pushed aside.
imikhail,
For once, I can see that I agree with you un-reservedly, and that maybe we might be able to better understand eachother one day.
Stavro, you are very correct. It is blasphemy for us to specify these origins and originators. I hope that one day people will open their noses and smell what has been going on un-examined for years.
leaving your church will be like 'jumping from the frying pan into the fire' (old british saying).
the coptic churches around the world do not seem to have the problems they have in north america, and so leaving your juristiction is not the best answer. also all the other orthodox juristictions have major problems. (eg. trying to recover from war, schisms within the juristiction etc.)
the greatest spiritual maturity comes under pressure during times of testing, so pray and work on yr own spiritual life to see what you can learn in this time.
as for me, i would not think of leaving a church juristiction until i was sure i was right and they were wrong (which would be unlikely). then, once i was fasting every wednesday and friday till evening, keeping all the other fasts, giving to the poor (e.g. did not own a smart car or big house), memorising all the psalms, studying the Bible every day, and being full of humility and bringing such peace that people just wanted to sit near me to learn from my peacefulness and deep love, then maybe, and under the direction of my spiritual father, i would make a big statement by leaving one juristiction to the one God was guiding me to (which may involve giving my life for my faith in a country where persecution was more severe).
so u can see, i am no where near that level of holiness yet. maybe you are? maybe God is guiding you to a life of poverty and suffering in egypt, after which you can come back from a few years in the desert to guide your fellow Christians? (i am not being sarcastic here, maybe you will reach a deep level of spirituality if you follow this path).
yes, there are some problems, but we must see to it that our life does not exacerbate the problems that exist, and instead brings times of refreshing for those who are seeking God.
How disgusting has this forum become!! You don't get to use my Coptic sacred liturgical language, or any liturgical language, in jest. You don't get to make a mockery of how I worship God by using liturgical texts in a non-liturgical way by saying "may He repose the souls ... in the bosom of Calvin, Luther and Zwilling". You don't get to make fun of sacred, holy text that is an offering and sacrifice to God. It is this extreme disregard for the fear of God that preoccupied the Jews to the point where they would not even write God's name in their liturgical and sacred text because of how sacred these texts were to them.
How disgusting has this forum become!! You don't get to say all fathers before the schism are Orthodox and no one after the schism can be quoted. You can justify all you want why you made an exception to your own rule and referenced a post-schism father. But you don't get to claim it is unorthodox to quote a non-heretical Western or Latin father because they don't fit into your definition of Orthodox father and then turn around and hypocritically do the same thing.
How disgusting has this forum become!! You don't get to say who is or isn't an Orthodox father. You don't get to say an Orthodox father is one "who lived saintly before they dealt with a theology debate". This is especially true when it was already stated the debate of righteousness and saintliness has nothing to do with this subject. St Cyril approved of St John Chrysostom's exile. By this definition, St Cyril should not be considered an Orthodox father.
How disgusting has this forum become!! You don't get to say St Cyril and St Athanasius are our fathers and they handed us the faith unchanged. If you read all texts of the ancient fathers, it would take a lifetime to complete. This is just the patristic writings that are in English. We don't even have all the original patristic texts preserved. Did St Athanasius or St Cyril explicitly answer all theological questions? If they did, there would be no theological debates today. But St Cyril and St Athanasius (and all Orthodox fathers) were not omnipotent. They wrote what the Holy Spirit gave them. In addition, St Cyril wrote about the Incarnation in both the Oriental and Chalcedonian formulas ("One nature out of two" and "in two natures"). You can't claim our fathers handed us one faith unchanged. Many theological debates today persists because both views are found or interpreted in patristic writings.
How disgusting has this forum become!! You don't get to say anyone who opposes your view is Protestant or heretic. You don't get to say anyone who shows love and tries to bring people to Christ by non-ethnic Coptic means, including a certain clergy's style of preaching, is Protestant. You don't get to say that anyone who exhibits an ecumenical spirit is feminist, freudian, modernist, liberal, or heretic. Ecumenism is Orthodox, found in the Scriptures and the actions and spirit of the ancient fathers from the beginning. Was St Athansius a liberal, freudian heretic when he ordained Aboune Salama for the Ethiopian Churches instead of making all Ethiopians pray in Coptic?
How disgusting has this forum become!! You don't get to side track every conversation into your view. We discuss Western scholasticism and there are posts about the next Coptic patriarch. There are posts stating that in order to be Orthodox the next patriarch must be a monk. Did St Cyril or St Athanasius or any Orthodox father ever say that a pope must be a monk? Did St Cyril or St Athanasius approve of misogyny claiming a patriarchal heirarchy? This insatiable need to distract the forums out of the context of the conversation is a symptom of the egotist's need to have the last word.
How disgusting has this forum become!! You don't get to pick and choose your current Orthodox fathers. You can't claim I am going to always approve of everything said by Pope Cyril VI, sometimes Pope Shenouda III, never Fr Matta, sometimes Fr Tadros, and never any of the bishops currently on the synod (or any other combination) If you want to follow your Orthodox fathers, you cannot bad mouth, strike down or verbally assault ANY of your current clergy (who are your fathers) without violating of Acts 23:5 and Exodus 22:28. When St Paul realized he did that to his high priest and God's anointed, he acknowledge his mistake and quoted scripture, "for it is written, ‘You shall not speak evil of a ruler of your people.’” Yet we have no problem insulting clergy.
How disgusting has this forum become!! You don't get to say the Orthodox Church is only the Church of Pope Shenouda III and not the Syrian, Armenian, Ethiopian, Eritrean, Indian AND Eastern Orthodox Greek, Russian, and other families. You don't get to say I don't care about the Greek Orthodox Church in America or the Orthodox Church of Constantinople, or Jerusalem. You don't get to say "my Orthodox God is the "God of light and in Him is no darkness at all." I have fellowship with God and walk in the light but I do not have fellowship (nor do I want fellowship) with with those who believe "the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin." " (Loosely taken from 1 John 1:5-7). If we do not have fellowship with one another, we walk in darkness and "we become liars who do not practice the Truth." (Verse 6)
How disgusting has this forum become!! You don't get to claim Orthodoxy opposes ecumenism to the point of justified schism because "it may be the only option for the faithful in the face of the wave of Protestantism and heretical teachings inside the Church." Is not the definition of Protestantism "to protest even to the point of schism" as Luther and Calvin did? How hypocritical. Do we not pray to God "let the schism of the Church cease" or do we encourage or justify schism? You stated, "You cannot just teach Orthodoxy without refuting the heresies that dominates the thought of Copts and specifying their origin. In doing so, you would have to come face-to-face with unpleasant facts that no one is willing to accept." Are you willing to accept and come face-to-face with the unpleasant fact that you may be the one with those Protestant heresies?
The bulk of this started when I addressed my concerns of the original article which stated there are more Western fathers quoted than Coptic fathers. My concern was this is a sign of ethnic racism. Obviously, from what followed there is extreme anti-ecumenical ethnic racism. How disgusting has this forum become!!
Maybe we can resume this discussion when the contributors have cooled down, are making intelligent contributions instead of showing their disgust like cry babies and cowards, and when they stop pretending they actually care for anything in the Church when they , knowingly, break all canons and commandments and encourage the use of heretical texts and advocate the Babylonian heresy in form of false ecumenism.
A person who builds his spirituality on Anselm and Aquinas and defends it, accuses the Orthodox of racism for opposing him, is not qualified to call himself an Orthodox.
[quote author=Stavro link=topic=13615.msg159588#msg159588 date=1346788182] Maybe we can resume this discussion when the contributors have cooled down, are making intelligent contributions instead of showing their disgust like cry babies and cowards, and when they stop pretending they actually care for anything in the Church when they , knowingly, break all canons and commandments and encourage the use of heretical texts and advocate the Babylonian heresy in form of false ecumenism.
A person who builds his spirituality on Anselm and Aquinas and defends it, accuses the Orthodox of racism for opposing him, is not qualified to call himself an Orthodox.
I rest my case.
Was Jesus "showing his disgust like a cry baby and coward" when he turned the money-changer's tables and those who sold in the Temple? Was Jesus pretending to care about anything in the Church? Did I ever once overtly or covertly advocate breaking any canon or commandment? Did I ever once encourage the use of heretical texts? Did I not say over and over that anyone who attacks Christ is a heretic to be avoided; and those who are simply different should not be called heretics? Did I not give plenty of biblical references in favor of ecumenism? Did I ever claim my spirituality was based on Anslem and Aquinas? Did I not say that my Orthodoxy and spirituality is based on Apostolic traditions, a solid biblical exegesis and patristic writings of the Orthodox? And if Anslem or Aquinas happen to corroborate and preach the Truth of the Gospel and the teachings of the Orthodox, I see no reason to disqualify them especially since they are not officially condemned as heretics. Did I not say that Anslem and Aquinas or whoever else that doesn't fit your definition of "acceptable Orthodox father" who preach in Christ's name are not our enemies; and in doing this Jesus' words in Mark 9 apply to them? Did I not show how the Pharisees did this very same thing when they claimed "We are Moses' disciples". You haven't bothered to read anything I have said. Instead you accuse without justification.
I don't care if you don't consider me Orthodox. Is the person who suggests schism and ignores St Paul's warning in 1 Corinthians 1:13 "Is Christ divided?" Orthodox? I only need to justify my thoughts, actions and beliefs to God, the only True Judge. Or is He also not qualified to call me Orthodox?
You failed to prove your point and you openly advocated using heretical teachings for spiritual edification, claiming we must search for the "truth". When challenged, you resorted to insults.
You have a skewed understanding of the Truth. You teach that the Truth can be found in Anselm and that he is actually a Father of the Church. The Truth is not an ideology or a philosophy that can be defined by someone from outside the Church.
You have accused other fellow Orthodox believers of Racism when they opposed your heretical ideas and your corrupt teachings. You are aware of the meaning of Racism so you cannot claim ignorance. Despite repeated clarifications that the matter has nothing to do race but with faith, you keep on insulting others to cover your ignorance.
We do not have to be taken on a guilt trip every time we express our love for our Church and the Fathers. We should not feel ashamed of our faith or race, yet you continue to make these ingorant accusations the Coptic race.
You continue to ignore canons that forbid any Orthodox from worship with a heretic or be in communion with heretics like Protestants. You are fully aware of the unity worship nights and you support it, and accuse true Orthodox believers of being anti-ecumenical (whatever that is).
This is only natural. You have shown your disrespect to the canons that regulate the election of the Patriarch and it is only normal to find nothing wrong in worship with heretics. Both heretical positions have their roots in a heretical ecclesiology.
True ecumenism is not a license to approve heresies of cults and denominations, it is a call for the Truth. We love them by exposing their heresies to them, and not by pretending they are also Orthodox and have a big group hug.
You take the liberity of misrepresenting my posts because you are incapable of addressing their true content.
When the Church is overrun by Protestants, and heretical clergy, and all means have been exhausted to rehabilitate them, and they continue to corrupt the rest through their heretical teachings and their practice, the Church will have to cut its corrupt and heretical branches like she always does. It will create a schism, or rather, the heretics will be cast out of the Church.
I am not advocating schism, I just see it coming.
The one who has to answer and assume responsibility for this schism is you and anybody who thinks like you. Do not expect the faithful to accept being polluted with the heresies and uncanonical practices you support.
Remember, at one point in the Church's history it seemed like Arianism was ultimately going to conquer the Church. However, by God's grace, Saint Athanasius, and those of like mind with him, fought for the Orthodox faith and they were victorious. I do not see any reason why that should not happen nowadays, especially now because it is very easy to access the writings of the Fathers.
[quote author=Severian link=topic=13615.msg159642#msg159642 date=1347039040] Remember, at one point in the Church's history it seemed like Arianism was ultimately going to conquer the Church. However, by God's grace, Saint Athanasius, and those of like mind with him, fought for the Orthodox faith and they were victorious. I do not see any reason why that should not happen nowadays, especially now because it is very easy to access the writings of the Fathers.
It is not just the information. To fight heresies, the Church needs humbleness and discipleship which are scarce nowadays.
Comments
Apparently, all the metropolitans and bishops, who signed the synodal letter to eliminate Pope Kyrillos died in one year. They were twelve in number and I think that would be about 70% of the bishops at the time. God granted Pope Kyrillos a clean start and the great man wept for his enemies for they lost their salvation.
The details concerning their ugly conspiracy are to follow on pm.
Hopefully, if a monk is chosen for the Papacy, the Lord will grant him also a fresh start. If a bishop is selected by men, may God grant him to enjoy the company of his fellow members of the Holy Synod forever and ever. No, of course not. Something has to be done though and here are the options we have:
1- We could pray for our own physical death so we will not get polluted by the unorthodox practices of the bishops and clergy.
We would be supported by St. Cyprian's teachings who commands us to stay away from the unfaithful clergy or we would be judged like them and be considered their partners in corruption.
We would be following the example of Bishop Alexander of Constantinople, who was ordered by Constantine to receive Arius in communion. He shut himself with his deacons in the Cathedral before the arrival of Arius, asking God to take him (Alexander) or take Arius but never allow that he would commune with a heretic.
2- Hope that the clergy and laymen repent of their Protestantism in worship and thought, but that would be a mass repentance and nothing short of Nineveh, for the cancer has eaten up the whole church. Very unlikely.
Did you see the latest unity prayers here in Toronto, hosted by Daddy P. and celebrated by most of the clergy in the GTA? There were grannies and babes worshiping heart and soul in these worship nights.
We are in communion with those people and according to St. Cyprian, we are not innocent of their crimes.
3- Try to make a difference in our own local sphere of influence, which is limited. Judging from the influence of more educated and spiritual individuals, such as Abona Tadros, and who are by far more capable of dividing the word of truth, it is not encouraging. The man lived through the last decades and his teachings, although Orthodox, did not have the desired influence on a mass level.
He visited Toronto 4 years ago in the same time the priest of DC was here. 15 people attended Abona Tadros and the rest preferred to listen to a feel-good garbage by someone else.
You know what the problem is? You cannot just teach Orthodoxy without refuting the heresies that dominates the thought of Copts and specifying their origin. In doing so, you would have to come face-to-face with unpleasant facts that no one is willing to accept.
_________________________________________________________________________________
I did not include the possibility of schism because I hope it never happens, but it may be the only option for the faithful in the face of the wave of Protestantism and heretical teachings inside the Church.
Someone will say: Enough is enough.
If you stand in the way, you will be pushed aside.
If you stand in the way, you will be pushed aside.
Yeah.
If you stand in the way, you will be pushed aside.
imikhail,
For once, I can see that I agree with you un-reservedly, and that maybe we might be able to better understand eachother one day.
Stavro, you are very correct. It is blasphemy for us to specify these origins and originators. I hope that one day people will open their noses and smell what has been going on un-examined for years.
RO
the coptic churches around the world do not seem to have the problems they have in north america, and so leaving your juristiction is not the best answer. also all the other orthodox juristictions have major problems. (eg. trying to recover from war, schisms within the juristiction etc.)
the greatest spiritual maturity comes under pressure during times of testing, so pray and work on yr own spiritual life to see what you can learn in this time.
as for me, i would not think of leaving a church juristiction until i was sure i was right and they were wrong (which would be unlikely).
then, once i was fasting every wednesday and friday till evening, keeping all the other fasts, giving to the poor (e.g. did not own a smart car or big house), memorising all the psalms, studying the Bible every day, and being full of humility and bringing such peace that people just wanted to sit near me to learn from my peacefulness and deep love, then maybe, and under the direction of my spiritual father, i would make a big statement by leaving one juristiction to the one God was guiding me to (which may involve giving my life for my faith in a country where persecution was more severe).
so u can see, i am no where near that level of holiness yet.
maybe you are?
maybe God is guiding you to a life of poverty and suffering in egypt, after which you can come back from a few years in the desert to guide your fellow Christians?
(i am not being sarcastic here, maybe you will reach a deep level of spirituality if you follow this path).
yes, there are some problems, but we must see to it that our life does not exacerbate the problems that exist, and instead brings times of refreshing for those who are seeking God.
How disgusting has this forum become!! You don't get to say all fathers before the schism are Orthodox and no one after the schism can be quoted. You can justify all you want why you made an exception to your own rule and referenced a post-schism father. But you don't get to claim it is unorthodox to quote a non-heretical Western or Latin father because they don't fit into your definition of Orthodox father and then turn around and hypocritically do the same thing.
How disgusting has this forum become!! You don't get to say who is or isn't an Orthodox father. You don't get to say an Orthodox father is one "who lived saintly before they dealt with a theology debate". This is especially true when it was already stated the debate of righteousness and saintliness has nothing to do with this subject. St Cyril approved of St John Chrysostom's exile. By this definition, St Cyril should not be considered an Orthodox father.
How disgusting has this forum become!! You don't get to say St Cyril and St Athanasius are our fathers and they handed us the faith unchanged. If you read all texts of the ancient fathers, it would take a lifetime to complete. This is just the patristic writings that are in English. We don't even have all the original patristic texts preserved. Did St Athanasius or St Cyril explicitly answer all theological questions? If they did, there would be no theological debates today. But St Cyril and St Athanasius (and all Orthodox fathers) were not omnipotent. They wrote what the Holy Spirit gave them. In addition, St Cyril wrote about the Incarnation in both the Oriental and Chalcedonian formulas ("One nature out of two" and "in two natures"). You can't claim our fathers handed us one faith unchanged. Many theological debates today persists because both views are found or interpreted in patristic writings.
How disgusting has this forum become!! You don't get to say anyone who opposes your view is Protestant or heretic. You don't get to say anyone who shows love and tries to bring people to Christ by non-ethnic Coptic means, including a certain clergy's style of preaching, is Protestant. You don't get to say that anyone who exhibits an ecumenical spirit is feminist, freudian, modernist, liberal, or heretic. Ecumenism is Orthodox, found in the Scriptures and the actions and spirit of the ancient fathers from the beginning. Was St Athansius a liberal, freudian heretic when he ordained Aboune Salama for the Ethiopian Churches instead of making all Ethiopians pray in Coptic?
How disgusting has this forum become!! You don't get to side track every conversation into your view. We discuss Western scholasticism and there are posts about the next Coptic patriarch. There are posts stating that in order to be Orthodox the next patriarch must be a monk. Did St Cyril or St Athanasius or any Orthodox father ever say that a pope must be a monk? Did St Cyril or St Athanasius approve of misogyny claiming a patriarchal heirarchy? This insatiable need to distract the forums out of the context of the conversation is a symptom of the egotist's need to have the last word.
How disgusting has this forum become!! You don't get to pick and choose your current Orthodox fathers. You can't claim I am going to always approve of everything said by Pope Cyril VI, sometimes Pope Shenouda III, never Fr Matta, sometimes Fr Tadros, and never any of the bishops currently on the synod (or any other combination) If you want to follow your Orthodox fathers, you cannot bad mouth, strike down or verbally assault ANY of your current clergy (who are your fathers) without violating of Acts 23:5 and Exodus 22:28. When St Paul realized he did that to his high priest and God's anointed, he acknowledge his mistake and quoted scripture, "for it is written, ‘You shall not speak evil of a ruler of your people.’” Yet we have no problem insulting clergy.
How disgusting has this forum become!! You don't get to say the Orthodox Church is only the Church of Pope Shenouda III and not the Syrian, Armenian, Ethiopian, Eritrean, Indian AND Eastern Orthodox Greek, Russian, and other families. You don't get to say I don't care about the Greek Orthodox Church in America or the Orthodox Church of Constantinople, or Jerusalem. You don't get to say "my Orthodox God is the "God of light and in Him is no darkness at all." I have fellowship with God and walk in the light but I do not have fellowship (nor do I want fellowship) with with those who believe "the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin." " (Loosely taken from 1 John 1:5-7). If we do not have fellowship with one another, we walk in darkness and "we become liars who do not practice the Truth." (Verse 6)
How disgusting has this forum become!! You don't get to claim Orthodoxy opposes ecumenism to the point of justified schism because "it may be the only option for the faithful in the face of the wave of Protestantism and heretical teachings inside the Church." Is not the definition of Protestantism "to protest even to the point of schism" as Luther and Calvin did? How hypocritical. Do we not pray to God "let the schism of the Church cease" or do we encourage or justify schism? You stated, "You cannot just teach Orthodoxy without refuting the heresies that dominates the thought of Copts and specifying their origin. In doing so, you would have to come face-to-face with unpleasant facts that no one is willing to accept." Are you willing to accept and come face-to-face with the unpleasant fact that you may be the one with those Protestant heresies?
The bulk of this started when I addressed my concerns of the original article which stated there are more Western fathers quoted than Coptic fathers. My concern was this is a sign of ethnic racism. Obviously, from what followed there is extreme anti-ecumenical ethnic racism. How disgusting has this forum become!!
I have sinned
A person who builds his spirituality on Anselm and Aquinas and defends it, accuses the Orthodox of racism for opposing him, is not qualified to call himself an Orthodox.
Maybe we can resume this discussion when the contributors have cooled down, are making intelligent contributions instead of showing their disgust like cry babies and cowards, and when they stop pretending they actually care for anything in the Church when they , knowingly, break all canons and commandments and encourage the use of heretical texts and advocate the Babylonian heresy in form of false ecumenism.
A person who builds his spirituality on Anselm and Aquinas and defends it, accuses the Orthodox of racism for opposing him, is not qualified to call himself an Orthodox.
I rest my case.
Was Jesus "showing his disgust like a cry baby and coward" when he turned the money-changer's tables and those who sold in the Temple? Was Jesus pretending to care about anything in the Church? Did I ever once overtly or covertly advocate breaking any canon or commandment? Did I ever once encourage the use of heretical texts? Did I not say over and over that anyone who attacks Christ is a heretic to be avoided; and those who are simply different should not be called heretics? Did I not give plenty of biblical references in favor of ecumenism? Did I ever claim my spirituality was based on Anslem and Aquinas? Did I not say that my Orthodoxy and spirituality is based on Apostolic traditions, a solid biblical exegesis and patristic writings of the Orthodox? And if Anslem or Aquinas happen to corroborate and preach the Truth of the Gospel and the teachings of the Orthodox, I see no reason to disqualify them especially since they are not officially condemned as heretics. Did I not say that Anslem and Aquinas or whoever else that doesn't fit your definition of "acceptable Orthodox father" who preach in Christ's name are not our enemies; and in doing this Jesus' words in Mark 9 apply to them? Did I not show how the Pharisees did this very same thing when they claimed "We are Moses' disciples". You haven't bothered to read anything I have said. Instead you accuse without justification.
I don't care if you don't consider me Orthodox. Is the person who suggests schism and ignores St Paul's warning in 1 Corinthians 1:13 "Is Christ divided?" Orthodox? I only need to justify my thoughts, actions and beliefs to God, the only True Judge. Or is He also not qualified to call me Orthodox?
You failed to prove your point and you openly advocated using heretical teachings for spiritual edification, claiming we must search for the "truth". When challenged, you resorted to insults.
You have a skewed understanding of the Truth. You teach that the Truth can be found in Anselm and that he is actually a Father of the Church. The Truth is not an ideology or a philosophy that can be defined by someone from outside the Church.
You have accused other fellow Orthodox believers of Racism when they opposed your heretical ideas and your corrupt teachings. You are aware of the meaning of Racism so you cannot claim ignorance. Despite repeated clarifications that the matter has nothing to do race but with faith, you keep on insulting others to cover your ignorance.
We do not have to be taken on a guilt trip every time we express our love for our Church and the Fathers. We should not feel ashamed of our faith or race, yet you continue to make these ingorant accusations the Coptic race.
You continue to ignore canons that forbid any Orthodox from worship with a heretic or be in communion with heretics like Protestants. You are fully aware of the unity worship nights and you support it, and accuse true Orthodox believers of being anti-ecumenical (whatever that is).
This is only natural. You have shown your disrespect to the canons that regulate the election of the Patriarch and it is only normal to find nothing wrong in worship with heretics. Both heretical positions have their roots in a heretical ecclesiology.
True ecumenism is not a license to approve heresies of cults and denominations, it is a call for the Truth. We love them by exposing their heresies to them, and not by pretending they are also Orthodox and have a big group hug.
You take the liberity of misrepresenting my posts because you are incapable of addressing their true content.
When the Church is overrun by Protestants, and heretical clergy, and all means have been exhausted to rehabilitate them, and they continue to corrupt the rest through their heretical teachings and their practice, the Church will have to cut its corrupt and heretical branches like she always does. It will create a schism, or rather, the heretics will be cast out of the Church.
I am not advocating schism, I just see it coming.
The one who has to answer and assume responsibility for this schism is you and anybody who thinks like you. Do not expect the faithful to accept being polluted with the heresies and uncanonical practices you support.
Remember, at one point in the Church's history it seemed like Arianism was ultimately going to conquer the Church. However, by God's grace, Saint Athanasius, and those of like mind with him, fought for the Orthodox faith and they were victorious. I do not see any reason why that should not happen nowadays, especially now because it is very easy to access the writings of the Fathers.
It is not just the information. To fight heresies, the Church needs humbleness and discipleship which are scarce nowadays.