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Serbian Orthodox Church chanting
Divna Ljubojevic (chanter) - Tebe poyem
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-lJazaPjRk
Tebe poyem, Tebe blagoslovim, Tebye blagodarim, Gospodi, i molim Ti sya Bozhe nash.
We praise You, we bless You, we give thanks to You, Lord, and we pray to You our God.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-lJazaPjRk
Tebe poyem, Tebe blagoslovim, Tebye blagodarim, Gospodi, i molim Ti sya Bozhe nash.
We praise You, we bless You, we give thanks to You, Lord, and we pray to You our God.
Comments
Divna Ljubojevic (chanter) - Tebe poyem
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-lJazaPjRk
Tebe poyem, Tebe blagoslovim, Tebye blagodarim, Gospodi, i molim Ti sya Bozhe nash.
We praise You, we bless You, we give thanks to You, Lord, and we pray to You our God.
We say this in our Liturgy of St Basil, just before the invocation of the Holy Spirit
We say this in our Liturgy of St Basil, just before the invocation of the Holy Spirit
The same here!
We sing this in our Liturgy of Saint John Chrysostom before the invocation.
We serve Saint Basil Liturgy 10 times in a year.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GXDeELFMTLo
I noticed the link you gave us describes the "lesser hours". Is there a "greater hours"?
Dear Remnkemi, first time ever I heard for "lesser hours" too.
Anyhow, I checked and how much I understand the answer is as following.
Namely, Western church (Roman Catholic) has this difference and refer daily services Major hours and Little (or lesser) hours, where Major hours are Vesper, Matin... and Lesser hours are First hour, Third...
There is no such word in Eastern Orthodoxy but the link I send you is the web page of Greek Orthodox Church in Britain and they adopted for some reason Roman Catholic terminology.
More on the subject:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liturgy_of_the_Hours#Major_hours
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Hours
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canonical_Hours#Current_practice
I noticed the link you gave us describes the "lesser hours". Is that called the "horologion"?
Horologion is the name of the book where are written all fixed parts of the daily services (Vesper, Matin, Hours... and nothing about Liturgy).
This book is used by readers, not by priests.
The site also has a link to the "Midnight Office". Is this not equivalent to "tasbeha"?
If I understand correctly Tasbeha is connected with Liturgy ? It is not served on daily basis regardless of Liturgy ?
Midnight Office has no connection with Liturgy, and is served on daily basis before Matin. There is no chanting at Midnight Office, just reading.
Text of Minight Office is here:
http://www.anastasis.org.uk/midnight_office.htm
[quote author=Remnkemi link=topic=13977.msg161855#msg161855 date=1355174898]
I noticed the link you gave us describes the "lesser hours". Is there a "greater hours"?
Dear Remnkemi, first time ever I heard for "lesser hours" too.
Anyhow, I checked and how much I understand the answer is as following.
Namely, Western church (Roman Catholic) has this difference and refer daily services Major hours and Little (or lesser) hours, where Major hours are Vesper, Matin... and Lesser hours are First hour, Third...
There is no such word in Eastern Orthodoxy but the link I send you is the web page of Greek Orthodox Church in Britain and they adopted for some reason Roman Catholic terminology.
More on the subject:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liturgy_of_the_Hours#Major_hours
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Hours
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canonical_Hours#Current_practice
Thank you Servos. So is it safe to say Major hours (Vespers and Matins) are equivalent to Coptic Raising of Incense (Evening and Morning) and Lesser hours are equivalent to the Coptic Agpeya or (Book of Hours)?
While we're on the subject of music, can you describe the tones? Does the Serbian church have octoechos? Do you also call them Kurios and Plagal? Can you give us a brief description?
The Serbian Church has 8 tones, but we do not call them Kurios and Plagal, but First tone, Second tone... Seventh tone and Eighth tone.
In Middle ages we recieved Christianity from Greeks and we had the chanting like Greeks. We call such kind of chanting "Byzantine".
Serbia fall under Muslim occupation nominally at 1389 and fully 1459. Serbia was under Turks until 1804. and fully liberated from Muslims in 1912.
Due to the Muslim oppression Serbs during centuries fled across the border in neighboring Austria. The Germans created in this empty land along the border with Turky a Serbian Duchy. Serbs were obliged to defend border of Austria-Hungary from the Turks.
More about that here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Serb_Migrations
So, we had Serbia divided in two. Serbia occupied by Turks and Serbia occupied by Austria and Hungary.
Serbs in Turkish part had no scools, had no Patriarch (Serbian church was abolished by Turks), most of monastereis were destroyed and because there was not enough musicaly learned monks the original chanting start to simplify during centuries. It is also in some degree start to interfere (blend) with folk melodies.
Serbs in Austria has their own Church organization and were able to be educated. But where ? In Wien, in Budapest, in other western cities. So, during centuries they were influenced with Western type of music (mainly baroque).
Finally, Stevan Stevanovic Mokranjac, famous Serbian composer write Serbian Church music in Western notes at the and of 19th century.
This writings of Mokranjac are called Serbian chanting, or Karlovci chanting. That is Byzantine chant, simplified during centuries, blended with folk melodies and influenced with Western music.
Mokranjac chanting is now in use predominantly. There is few monastires who chant Byzantine, all others Mokranjac. Anyhow, the interest for Serbian Byzantine Chanting grows and there is more and more young persons who are learning the Byzantine chant.
1. Do both Byzantine chanting and Mokranjac chanting have 8 tones? Or is it just Byzantine chanting?
2. What is the chanting in the Turkish part of Serbia called?
3. How do you tell the difference between the 8 tones? Is it the music that defines each tone or is it the calendar time it is chanted?
4. Does each tone have a different response? We know the festive tone in the Coptic Church is happy while the Pascha (Holy Week) tone is heavy and gives us a feeling of repentance. Do the Serbian 8 tones have similar usage?
1. Do both Byzantine chanting and Mokranjac chanting have 8 tones? Or is it just Byzantine chanting?
Both, Byzantine and Serbian have 8 tones. But these tones sounds different.
First tone, Psalm 140. (Lord, I have cried unto Thee...) in Byzantine way:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBEHmGK26ZQ
First tone, Psalm 140 in Mokranjac way:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqDKy-aAzLw
Gospodi vozvah k Tebye uslishi mya, vonmi glasu molyenia moyego vnega vozvati mi k Tebye.
2. What is the chanting in the Turkish part of Serbia called?
I was not clear in previous post, I see now.
So, although Serbs were divided in two (Turkish and Austrian part) as a nation they were united. Also the church (although administrativly divided in one church south of river Danube (Turkish part) and other north of river Danube (Austrian part)) was one.
We have original Serbian chanting before 15th century. It is called byzantine. Now rare in use.
And we have this century long process of simplify, blending with Serbian folk melodies and influence of West. Because this process was centuries long, and Serbs although divided were one nation, it influenced both Serbs, north and south from Dunav river. For example, some monk from Turkish part went to Austrian part, and than go back to Turkish part, etc. Or some monk raised in Austria become bishop in Turkish part. Or some bishop raised in Turkish part is expelled and went to Austrian part.
This process of changes of original byzantine chant was very very slow, latent, and was at the same time both and in Austrian part and in Turkish part.
So Mokranjac chant is 19th century chant of all Serbs, from north and south (Austrian and Turkish) who has his origins in byzantine, but is simplified and West influenced.
Another example.
Cherubikon in Byzantine way, chanted now very rarely:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wi1zDwsbP-U
Cherubikon in Mokranjac way, usual chant in todays Serbia:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EX0hNSo3er0
In this Mokranjac Cherubikon you can clearly see Western influance.
The text is the same: Izhe Heruvimi tayno obrazuyushche... but the melody is different. Byzantine is only male or female, can not be mixed. Serbs in Austria saw from Roman Catholics mixed choir and bring this fashion (and north and south from Dunav), etc.
3. How do you tell the difference between the 8 tones? Is it the music that defines each tone or is it the calendar time it is chanted?
Tone is musical melody.
What tone will be used is defined by service itself where those who write the text write also in what melody (Tone) the text will be sing.
Also, every week has it's ruling tone.
4. Does each tone have a different response? We know the festive tone in the Coptic Church is happy while the Pascha (Holy Week) tone is heavy and gives us a feeling of repentance. Do the Serbian 8 tones have similar usage?
Yes.
Happy melody for Christ resurrection:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xWB5kaHMfUE