Greetings from Spain

pulpito

Hello, I am Spanish. My blesed to all.

My Introduction:

First of all, my appologyce for my poor english.

From many years, I was looking for, to meet coptic persons on Spain, but Spain has not fluenty people coptic.

There is a small community near from my house in "Torrevieja", but they never answer my emails.

May be, because I am Catholic, and there are many differences, between eastern and western people. (I don't known).

I am catholic, but I am feel like if not were Catholic. For me, God is God, * the same * for everybody. My faith says: not consider discrimination to anyone. My faith says some things that are not common for Catholic believers, (but also for others Christian Churchs), so I feel discriminated in any whatever place, because the world just look at your own world and those who seek God, are discriminated because they just looking for things and God's interests.

In my point of veiw, there are two peoples: one that looking the truth in his own, and others, that (says the same), but obeying to all. Really is it very good (and sant),  to obeying to all, but there is a internal voice of God (in you conscience!). Is it, so easy to disobey the rules of you Church, but is it more difficulty to obey to you own conscience! so: What is the easiest way and the most difficult? What says the gospel?

And (of couse), is more easy to obey to all, forgetting you conscience, and say you need to obey, as an excuse.

Sorry, all I've said, has many differents point of view, (I know). There is not enough time here, to clarify.

Anyway, I am here, because I want to learn many things, and From Coptic, I love all. They has the most beautifully Icons, I have never seeing and has more antique rituals on Divine Lithurgy. From they, I love all.

since I am rejected always, I hope to find some friends here,  to learn many things of yours, and if anybody need something from me or my wife, no hesitate  to saying.

Thanks for all, and Apologice if some word o  phrases, are not understand, my languaje (fluently is in Spanish), and I cannot to write or speak very well in English.

Blessed to all.

pulpito

Also, if anybody want to know something about Catholic Roman Church, (as I), or from Spain, or other things, don't hesitate to say

Also I want to know some things about Coptic Church. For example: After the Pope, who Gobern the Coptic Church? In Catholic Roman, after the Pope there are a "Curia Roman", and after the "Curia Roman" is "Cardenales", and after "Cardenales" is Bishops.

In some way, Curia, and Cardenales, and Bishops, has diferents, goberns and obligations and mandates. As my wife says: the Roman Catholics has very hierarchical and complicated (not as the Orthodox's), she said, because (she said), the western is more questionable people, and eastern is more logic and simple (good!), she said.

pulpito

d

mabsoota

welcome pulpito!
:)
there are other orthodox churches in spain, so if you don't find a coptic church, then you might benefit from visiting the other churches (like greek orthodox or russian orthodox, for example).

to answer some of your questions:
in our church, we have a synod of bishops who make decisions with the pope. he does not change anything in the church structure without first consulting the synod of bishops.

our structure is simpler. bishops over big areas with increased administrative jobs can be made 'metopolitan' (like 'archbishop' in some other orthodox churches), but bishops and metropolitans do not move from one place to another.
i like the simpler structure as it (usually) helps the bishops to be more humble.
i like our bishops a lot! it is easy to go and say 'hello' to them, you just wait after a meeting and if there are not too many people, you can talk to them and kiss their hand.
i did not meet lots of bishops, but the ones i met were kind and peaceful.

but there are lots of good people in the catholic church too.
try to find people who pray a lot and who can teach you to get closer to God through prayer and fasting and Bible study and doing good things and through the Holy Communion (Eucharist).
good spiritual leaders are very strong and very humble and very loving; willing to work very hard and able to ask for advice and to listen to those around them.
i think your pope francis is a good leader (but i didn't meet him, so i don't really know).
our pope tawadros enjoyed meeting him very much.

i have met a few very spiritual catholic priests where i am (uk), so i think (hope) there are others in spain.
i have been to a catholic church in the south of spain once, but i don't speak spanish (except, hello, how are you and those basic things) and they didn't speak much english, but the people were lovely and the priest was very careful to place the small children at the front of the church so they could see everything.

i think if the coptic people near you do not answer their email, you should go to the church anyway one time. sometimes coptic people are shy beause they got used to being afraid of their neighbours in egypt.
so if they are shy, then say hello to them after the service.
when they see that you love God, they should be less shy and talk to you.
may God bless you, and thanks for visiting this website!
:)
mabsoota (it means 'happy' in arabic, because i am happy in the coptic church!)

pulpito

Thanks very very much for you kind and worm words!!

Thanks for say that in Roman Catholic there is (also), a good persons! Some times, it seems that my own Church does bad many things, and I hopelessness so much! I know, that good people are in many sites and places (Churchs), because only one is the Holy, (we all are sinners), but the "symbol of obedience" (as I said), is very "strong, powerful" in my Church. The obedience is good! (I know, I Know), but the love to the sheeps is before to all, because God teach to us,  to love to the sheeps,  (so It were), as a true symbol of the real love to Him. Unfortunately, from many year ago, (in Spain, over all), the priest, are not good Shepherd, because they not speak nothing with the own sheeps. Yes, of course, they speak with the sheeps from many things, but "the some we are now speaking, (on the spirit)",  they cannot (at least in the some deep as we are now speaking), talk with his sheeps.

The church in Spain (over all), spent so many years (40 years) accommodated in social life of the country. This is the cause of his lake of spiritual deep, on the faith, here, in Spain.

Last time, I say this to one priest, he was angry with me, and now, I'm doing wrong, saying this, but it's true!, (but I must not criticize). But Good, (and God), is above all of us, and I must to say.

I cannot to speak to any priest: First they has no time (always has in hurry), and second, they cannot replay to you spiritual questions and words (because the first). When you go to one priest, many times nobody know were he is, because always he is in hurry, with many things to do.

I know the Russian Orthodox Church in Madrid, but now I am not in Madrid (400 km long). Here, (were I lived), is a small town away from big cities of Spain.

I can say more things, but is it enough now, (and I feel bad for criticizing so much).

I like also very much, the Russian Orthodox in Madrid.

There is a saying: From what your heart is full, you mouth speak! Why the mouth of many (in Spain) are silent of spiritual?

Thanks for say (as well), cause for non replay my emails. It is truly, that you say.

One thing more words: I loved to kneel down, genuflections, cross oneself, etc of the Orthodox and Coptic's. For me is like a fresh air!! (Roman Catholic almost did not make anything, it is the truth), (...From what your heart is full, you mouth speak, and also the symbols).

God Bless you to all!

pulpito

Only I want to say, one more thing:

Not always was the some, in the Catholic Church. When I was a child, the Catholic Church was (all) different. In that time (1964), the Catholic Church seems to be like a Orthodox Church. After the Vatican II (Roman Concilio), all was different: From been like an  Orthodox, seem to be more like a Protestant Church.

But also there are many traditional believers ln the Roman Catholic Church. But they is required to obey to all. (I think, that something similar happened in Russia when communism). Right now, I pray for they all Catholics, because the evil (Deamon), put out of my Church. Pray to God for This, and pray for all sincere and humble people and good priest, in my Church, to be sants!

Please pray for my Church, as I pray also, for the Copts. Thanks.

pulpito

I am feeling guilty for said bad things, As I have said bad things about my Church, now tell good things: I know many Catholic people  (in the past) gave their lives for Christ and for the Faith! (I am visiting his Tombs), where they are buried, but more than that: I Know sure, in the some case, they do the equal, (right now), *because God (The Highest), be with them, and (we, sinners), we are not one to judge, or who to inquire, the desires and thoughts of God, who know more than we. So I pray, forgive me. The only thing that we can do is pray. I am not a Bishop, I am not a Prist. I always says: Do they what they must to do!, and for me the same, (but many times I don't...) :-\

I am feeling better now. :)

God Bless to all :)

pulpito

God Bless with you.

Do you know Maggie Gobran (Mama Maggie)?

I made, a Little video (my Little personal contribution to its work). My work was, translated and Spanish subtitles. There is no Spanish translation on web. So I think: Why not translate it into Spanish?. It's so beautiful!

So this is the work, It took a lot of effort (I had never translated videos).

The Lord be with you.  :)

Theophilus 1

Hi Pulpito,

I am a fellow Christian from Eritrea. Eritrea shares the See of St Mark with the church of Alexandria. I love learning about other churches and even love more people who share this interest. Welcome to the site & make yourself at home!

By the way your English is really good and I wish I know as much spanish.

In Christ
Theophilus

pulpito

Thanks a lot, Theophilus 1, for you beauty and loved words!

Also, my love words, to all Eritrean's, like you!


I don't know, what to tell, about Spain: Spain has kind people, (specialy they love to all outsiders people). The weather is between hot and cold (moderate), and that's why the sky, are always foggy (misty), by this moderate weather (France very cold in the North, and Marocco very hot at South), so in the medium *misty* Spain's sky. (I like very very much the photography, but I cannot never to take good pictures in a clear and bright blue Sky) :-\

The people in Spain, is a lot of courageous and hardworking. I love to Spanish people, but they has very bad Rulers and Politicals. Always (in past history), Spain have had always very bad governments. The people is very patient with his governs, and they (the governs), do everything they want with the Spanish.

There are many people in Spain, bright, clever, and intelligent, (but others, not!). That's why (between Spaniards), there are many many envy (jealous).

The most Spiritual and Religious, --> more bright and clever.
The less Spiritual and (not) Religious, --> not clever, nor intelligent.

I think, that evangel, says:  "For he that hath, to him shall be given; and he that hath not, from him shall be taken even that which he hath".  St. Mark, 4 - 25

talents (for me) is bright, clever, Spiritual, Religious, faith, virtue, love, simplicity. This talents, will be given, (or shall be taken from him).

So, in Spain, there are many people good, but other not. I think that happend (the same), in all countries, but the saying goes: "Spain is different", because the most good are very much good in Spain, and the most bad are many more bad in Spain! (That it is terrible!), when Spain is good do great things! (but when is bad do terribles things!). That's why (I assume) the saying goes "Spain is different" (in good or bad things).

Dear, Theophilus 1, I invite you, to visit Spain! (But when good... :) )

For now, you have a little friend (me), because I am looking good people in Spain, and I cannot to find him (they all, assume, are scattered, between... that terrible fog!  :)


God be with you, dear brother, and thanks for you kind and worm words

pulpito

Dear Theophilus 1,

I want to tell you, how (50 year ago), was the Divine Lithurgy (The name of Roman Catholic is "The Mass"), of the Sacrifice (Eucharist). I am going to describe (only) small parts of it: (Always, 50 years ago)

The Temple:

The Temple, always dedicated to the name and veneration of a saint (or God or Virgin or San Josep or Los Angeles, or family of the Holy Family, for example, like - St.Ana -  cousin of the Virgin Mary, and so on). The Temple (nor temple house, or place), was to be "Beauty with Respect", with figures of saints, or holy figures, not placed the temple on noises  areas (places),, beeing calm place (out and inside), for the Soul be calm, to be arise to heaven with God.

In the center, where the Prist consecrate, (Body and Blood), is a "Table" (The name Mass, is the same, "table", in ancient latin sacred language). All The Mass is in Latin, sacred language (not in Spain, English, French an so on...).

But, what had the table inside?

The table, (besides being consecrated by the Prist), has one piece of a Sant, one piece belong to a saint inside the table where the Eucharist is consecrated.

This piece, is a symbol, is a veneration. So, is not only a table. The Sant is in heaven, with God. Here in this table, is cosecrated the Eucharist. Never say Who's who? Few Catholics knows this aspect (Do not ask, either), It doesn't matter, the most important thing is that:
nothing is done without a specific reason, (in that case, veneration, reverence, love for God, and for thouse Sants, united to God by the sacrifice and love, given by the example, of their own lives). This table contains, something belong to a St.

This is only a short story, and only start (preparative) of the Sacred Mass. I hope you like this narration.

(This detail, always caught my attention, when I was a boy).

With Good, be all, in the love of Christ!

pulpito

Can you tell me something beauty (you like to much), of you Divine Lithurgy, for me be joyful? Something you special like to much?

I love people loving to God. I love people tell me beauty (and deep) spiritual things. I love spiritual parley (paths that lead to God).

I like to much when (orthodox or copts), kneel, cross, kiss the ground, etc.. (but I think Copt has benches?), how they kneel, cross, kiss the ground, etc, with benches like Catholic's? (above all, kiss the ground with benches?)

Theophilus 1

Dear Pulpito,

I love so many things about my church and the liturgy is at the heart of it all. Our church is built to look like the Ark of the Covenant (the one Moses built in the Old Testament by the direction of God). In the holy of holies (the inner room) there is the altar (the holy table). The altar is built on top of a saints relicts (a part of a saint who has died in the past). The altar can be built out of wood but ideally it should be built out of stone because Jesus was buried in a stone tomb.

It is on top of this that the Sacrifices - the Body and Blood are offered. The body is a full round bread and the blood is a mixture of wine and water (because blood and water came out of Jesus’s side when the soldier speared him).

Between the inner room and the area where the congregation stands is an iconostasis (an icon holder). There is a specific order which icon should be put and also how the icons should be written (painted). 


The liturgy in the Orthodox Church is very long, about 3 hours minimum. But I love this because it gives me time to focus. Usually I spend the first hour with my mind thinking about other things and trying to focus.

One of my favorite parts of the liturgy is when we say Egzio Meharena Kiristos (Lord have mercy). The priest and the congregations say this by taking turns 41 times. It is chanted in a very sorrowful tune. 

The liturgy ends with communion.

Pulpito, why did you say always 50 years ago?


In Christ
Theophilus



pulpito

Dear Theophilus,

Thank you very much for you last post!!

I do like (love) the chants!!

I composed 3 month ago, this (youtube) video, on my channel:



(From Ethiopia!!!). Tana Monastery!, and a Russian Orthodox Chant!



You aks me, what I said: 50 years ago??

Since, 50 Years Ago (in 1962), was taken place, (in The Roman City, on Vatican Country), a Meeting between ALL BISHOPS, etc, ALL OVER THE WORLD!

In this meeting, was CHANGED, ALL LITHURGY, AND FAITH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (Since almost 2000 years ago, has not had changed almost at all, now had changed all)!

Since 1962,  all in the Roman Catholic is different!!!!::

- The Divine Lithurgy ("The Mass"), is not the same!
- The Faith, is not the same!
- From German's Bishops, , 1 month ago, they (Bishops), ask, why the woman cannot to be priest??...
- The holy Sacrament of communion, take place, getting with you own hands, and puting  in  your mouth (with you own hands)!!

and so on....



I am going Right now (Sunday), to my Church, to the Divine Lithurgy (Mass), so I can stay with my Lord! (In Roman Catholic, go every Sunday to the Holy Mass, is a Liability and commanded by the Catholic Church)! and, (as for me) is a pleasure and enjoyment to be with my God!



Only God (in my Church), is the same, has not Changed at all!! :) :)


Yes, is a terrible for my and my wife to see every Sunday (as if I were a Catholic between protestants) in my own Church, but what can I do? I believe in God, I cannot to abandon or leave my God and my Faith.

If Copts tell me more about them, and they were more near from me and my wife, then I make a Copt? (May be), only God knows.

You in God, Pulpito  :)

pulpito

Do you understand, why I cannot to speak of the Catholic Church, in year 2013?

I only can to speak, how were my Church, before year 1962...

Theophilus 1

I enjoyed reading your post!

I will try to reply soon. Something is getting me very busy this week & I might not post till the weekend.

In Christ
Theophilus

pulpito

Yes!, Please!, Tell me a lot of more things!

Dear Theophilus, thanks a lot!


My wife (also), hear (listen) all you replays, because she is like me. both of us, are the same. I love to my wife, and she loves me. God made me, (to she) meet. God is in our lives. The love of a Christian always must to grow and grow. The marriage, is only the way to grow in faith and love (it is a vocation, calling), but more than a simple vocation:

You love is similar, (parallel), to the love of Christ, because Christ teach us, to love to each other, and the love of a man and a women is the beginning, (start), of a true - perpetual - love, that will be continue, on the eternity, (in heaven), so is not a whatever (any) love. (1)

As you can see, I love to much to my wife  :) but this love, is not only a human love, is a God's love  :) (may be difficult to understand, but it is so!  :) and my first friend is my wife.

I tell you this thing, because I want to tell you about (Spiritual, yes Spiritual) things, (like this... :) ), and this is my testimony of my love.

She told me (3 days ago), to ask you, in what sequence, you Copts, prepare the holy icons in front of altar in you Church? She loves the holy icons as well as I loved, and she is passionate from them. But I assume, is not easy to explaing this question? She dont speak English, only French. I tell her to go to a French Copitc forums on Internet, because she want to know more Coptics.


...


I hope you replay's (may be the next weekend...), and listen, listen, pay attention, to you words!


In Christ

Pulpito


(My named here, Pulpito, because pulpit, - octopus - is a good and loving pet, very ugly for me, but of good heart. For me is a curious animal and very intelligent. oh, go much nonsense, I am saying!)

:) :) :)

pulpito

(1) Christ (married with His Church and has a lot of sons and daughters, *we all*, in faith):
"When the dead rise, they will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven". St. Mk, 12, 25

(About the *true and deep* vocation, calling, of married, in my humble opinion).

Of course, (sorry), yes!, there is a different concepts to clarify (among this), not enought space, to speak here.  But in all you live, truly (and deep) Christian live, really make their vocation, always in the loved! In Christ, loved. (My humble opinion).

pulpito

...sorry if I had spoken too much. But, Dont say: "For the mouth speaks what the heart is full of". St. Matt 12:34  (And I am plenty of my wife's loved!). :)

(...and also, after that, I need as well, to love to others. The love is expansive, not only is enought Individual, but going, full out, spread), as the love of the Holy Trinity, to all of us.

Because I have not been humble, telling of what I have plenty, then you must to tell, (of what, you also) are fully of love!  :D ::). (...sorry, your turn  ::) )

pulpito

I do like very much you Icons!!

They seem to me, Great majestic and reverent, but more than this: They seem to me, with Great Loved: Their faces, expression of their hands, their colours, etc. are in very loved and charming!


For example: My Avatar (Do you say that? avatar?), is St. Josep and Child, on arms!

Do you see frequently, The Virgin Mary with Child on her arms, but is not (for my) frequently to see St.Josep with Child!

Yes, Catholics (50 years ago...) had figures (sculptures), very beautifully of St. Josef with Child. I remember one figure of St Josef with Child holding hands and walking together, very beauty! I'd always put in front of that figure, when I was in that Church.

I do like, also, not only St. Josep with Child, also other Coptic Icons.

For example, in this firs Icons of that video (I made 3 month ago), from ETHIOPIA, and LALIBELA!, you can see, the expresion of Virgen Mary kissing Child, (and the expresion seem speaking of ox and cow) while watching. Very setting loved scene, with charm!



(Has not set, the sound).

Any way, I must to leave now. I hope (weekend) you return to post.

In Christ

Pulpito.

pulpito

I pray for you (all) Copts. You all, are being persecuted, from Eritrea to Egipt, (and other places). I pray for you all Copts.

Do you know, in the book of Apocalypse, talking about you?

In this book, sais: "From my 7 Churches, there is one has more faith than the others". I beleave it is Copts. The other Churches, I assume are other Christian Churches, all over the world, (Orthodox. Catholic, ...). (It is my opinion).

Any way, I pray for Copts to God.

Copts, may be not the most largest (or expanded) Christian Churches, (all over the worl), but it is the most loved for God!

In Christ

Pulpito.

Theophilus 1

Hi Pulpito,

I was looking forward for the weekend that I might kick back and write you a post. You are right, the Coptic church has lived through a lot of persecutions.

Tertullian (c. 160 – c. 225 AD), a third century lawyer from North Africa, writes, “If the martyrs of the whole world were put on one arm of the balance and the martyrs of Egypt on the other, the balance would tilt in favor of the Egyptians.”

But other Churches has also produced many martyrs. The Russian Orthodox Church during the Soviet regime (1917 to 1991) went through a great persecution with 600 bishops, 40,000 priests, 120,000 monks and nuns and about 41,076,750 millions of laypeople martyred for the Orthodox Faith.

The Armenian and Greek Orthodox are the first to suffer genocide in the 20th Century. In Turkey 1,750,000 Greek Christians & 1,800,000 Armenian Christians were martyred between 1894 and 1923.

By the grace of God, the Eritrean Orthodox Church is offering a few of Her saints as martyrs, to the glory of God.

The Orthodox Church always bares witness to the Faith of the Fathers through her martyrs blood. Actually the Greek word for martyr is μάρτυς, mártys, which means "witness". And “The blood of the martyrs is the seed of the church” Tertullian

I will leave you with a beautiful quote from St. Isaac the Syrian. I will write another post soon to reply to your wife’s question about the Coptic iconostasis and in what order the icons are placed.

Let yourself be persecuted, but do not persecute others.
Be crucified, but do not crucify others.
Be slandered, but do not slander others.
Rejoice with those who rejoice, and weep with those who weep: such is the sign of purity.
Suffer with the sick.
Be afflicted with sinners.
Exult with those who repent.
Be the friend of all, but in your spirit remain alone.
Be a partaker of the sufferings of all, but keep your body distant from all.
Rebuke no one, revile no one, not even those who live very wickedly.
-St. Isaac of Syria (7th Century)


In Christ
Theophilus

pulpito

Dear Theophilus,

Thanks for you words!

I know, that Eritrean Church is suffering persecution (I read you recent post). I pray for them.

In the Spanish Civil War (1936-1939) was a substantial many clergy and priesthood  martyred. The grandparents of my wife, uncles, aunts, was martyred as well. In this Town (where I lived), many priest was martyred, (but in no case, can to be compared in the Numeral and several people was died on Soviet Regime!

Very Beautifull the quote from St. Isaac the Syriam. I have read many things from the Desert Fathers, and all of them are very very Beautifull and Wise! The written, of the Desert Fathers, are very wisdom, and I do like very much!


My wife hope you write, the Iconostasis order place, (she ask), when you can.

Thanks again.

(I hope you write soon more posts).

In the Love of Christ

Pulpito.


NOTE
-------

Dear Brother, Theophilus
Please, said if you like (interest), my last posts. (I never know what others think).

In the name of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, one God. Amen.