To my God and your God

Zoxsasi

In the Gospel of St John 20:27, Jesus says (to Mary Magdalene)

"Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, 'I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.'"

Can someone explain to me why Christ says this... especially the part 'to my God and your God'.

minasoliman

Just a slight correction, you meant John 20:17 ;)

You must keep in mind, anything Christ says or does, He is almost always saying them on our behalf as well as for our exaltation.  He is saying now the time has come that you will be in the same relationship He as the eternal Son of the Father has with the Father (cross reference John chapter 17) because He became a lowly man like us.  That does not avoid the fact that the Son is also equally divine, but that He humbled and emptied Himself, so that we may be exalted.  Therefore, it is a moment of proclaiming man's adoption into the life of God.  

St. Cyril explains that by taking our flesh, He lifts our nature into His dignity of Sonhood inasmuch as we are able to handle (in other words, we partake of the divine eternal glory itself as much as we are able) which comes as a result of lowering His status into a servant of God.  He says "my Father and your Father" to express our readiness to be elevated, and "my God and your God" to express His humility to be lowered in return for honoring us.  

This is echoed in St. Paul's phenomenal message to the Philippians when he says, "Have this mind in you, which was also in Christ Jesus, who being in the form of God, thought it not a prize to be equal with God (which means He did not think to show off or win or take something from His divinity), but emptied Himself, taking the form of a servant, being made in the likeness of men.  And, being found in fashion as a man, He humbled Himself, becoming obedient to death, even the death on the Cross.  Wherefore God also highly exalted Him, and gave Him a Name which is above every name, that in the name of Jesus, every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth, and that every tongue should confess Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father."

St. Athanasius explains (in Discourses 1:40-41) that Christ needed no exaltation, since He is already "in the form of God".  He humbled Himself, became man from the Virgin Mary Theotokos (you notice here he uses the word "Theotokos", translated as "Bearer of God"), not so that He may seek exaltation for Himself (remember, He's not prizing Divinity, or seeking to grasp Divinity for Himself, since He is already Divinity), but He wants us to be exalted and holy in Him.

Another interpretation is that very early on, before Nicea, only the Father was called "God".  Rarely you'll see instances that the Son and the Holy Spirit is called God.  The pre-Nicene community worshiped the Son and the Holy Spirit with the Father, and saw that we depended on their relationship to the Father that we may be engrafted and become "gods".  St. Athanasius elucidated this and showed us that we cannot become "gods" depending on the Son and the Holy Spirit if they're not both God as well.  Nonetheless, you can see that St. Athanasius still uses this appellation for the Father as God of all, even the God of the Son, who is called "true God from true God" because He is begotten eternally from the Father.

Zoxsasi

Thanks Mina,

Yes, its Jn 20:17.

What is your understanding on "do not touch me" part - He says that to Mary Magdalene as she tried to cling to Him.

If anyone else has any other explanations on this, please share it.

Thanks

minasoliman

I've heard a few interpretations.  One would be "don't cling to me" because I have to ascend to the Father that I may send the Holy Spirit (cross reference John 16:7, when He says if He does not leave, He cannot send the Comforter).  St. Cyril in that same link takes it a step further and gives an allegorical, that you cannot partake of the Eucharist unless you are baptized in the Church where the Paraclete rests in you as He rests in Christ.

I have heard another interpretation, which I do not necessarily agree with, but I will say it to you.  It is an interpretation that wants to keep harmonious the varying stories of the other gospels, where she was allowed to touch Christ in her joy after being told by the angels He is risen, but then she lost faith, cried in doubt, and when she meets Christ, she has to bear a punishment for her doubt.  I find that a bit odd and too literalistic to the point of losing the point of the variances of the gospels, rather than try to make them agree with each other.

If you want to take a better literal approach, St. John Chrysostom does a very good job at that, saying that Christ stopped her from touching Him as if He was what He was like before the crucifixion and resurrection.  So He wanted to elevate her thoughts to realize He is of a much different state of glory after the resurrection (the same state of glory that is promised to us).  So He tells her not to talk or cling to Him in the same way as before, but consider a different approach to Him.

Zoxsasi

one guy told me is that women cannot touch the eucharist; hence why he forbade her and not st thomas

Zoxsasi

one guy told me is that women cannot touch the eucharist; hence why he forbade her and not st thomas

Remnkemi

Zoxsasi,

That guy who told you that wasn't very keen on scriptures. No man can touch the eucharist, unless he is a priest. Secondly, if it were meant to be that literal, then every man, women and child "touches" the eucharist by the mere physical fact of ingesting the eucharist. Either no one can touch it, or every one can touch. Discrimination is not biblically supported. 

minasoliman

Well, I have to mention that no one TODAY can touch it, but based on the catechetical lectures of St. Cyril of Jerusalem, the priest or deacon would place the body on the left hand of the communicant, and the communicant would pick it up from his/her right hand and eat it.

There were also women deacons who would take the Eucharist to the widows and orphans who couldn't make it to church. So the idea that a woman cannot touch the Eucharist seems historically inaccurate.

mcarmichael

Whoa! Deaconesses? As in, wives of deacons, yeah? Or are you ordaining deaconesses? 

It's okay with me I think.