Don't you think that's a bit of a generalization? Does the opposition to homosexual acts, calling them as what has been for centuries traditionally called make one a homophobe, or one who is true to him/herself on what the Church teaches? Can a polygamous man enter the Church believing that he can continue in polygamy? That is why I posted what I posted. It opens a door that we regress against Christ's teachings of marriage and divorce.
I have agreed thus far that there has been a mishandling on the situation, but I am not all too happy as to mischaracterize all people who still take a stand for what they believe to hold what has been held for centuries and wish not to change that.
"So find your church, trust a spiritual father, pray unceasingly, and let others figure out their journey."
Is the mantra of Orthodoxy "every man for himself"? Is Orthodoxy a personal journey in a church "you" find, with a spiritual father (you like), while simply praying (all the while not believing in the faith handed down from the Apostles)? Sounds very Protestant to me. Does not Christ find you, give you commandments, and unite you to all the world through His sacraments? If we let others figure out their journey by themselves, how can we say we are one body? How can we partake of the one Body of Christ on the altar? The only way such advise would apply, that is to choose to sin against the commandment of God - and this applies to all sin and unrighteousness, is if one willingly ignores the commandments, the scriptures, the fathers, and willingly removes oneself from the sacraments.
"You be who you are,"
Then you obviously missed the whole discussion on how the sacraments transform you into something more that what/who you are.
"do what is in your best judgment in the light of Christ's teachings and the guidance of the holy fathers"
If that were true and genuine advice, then I do not see how anyone can judge Christ's teachings and guidance of the holy fathers permitting or condoning homosexuality, since the light of Christ's teachings and the guidance of the holy fathers explicitly condemn sexual immorality and homosexual union.
I think the argument is not so much whether homosexuality is a sin or not, but the pastoral approach towards it. Ray agrees it's a sin, but there have been ways of dealing with it that did more harm than good for them.
Pastoral approach can always improve. That problem will never go away. In the mean time, we can only change what we can change. I can't make a priest give better pastoral care, but I can begin to learn how to see pastoral care in a different light. In doing so, what seems to be bad pastoral care that has done more harm than good, I may begin to see how much more good it did.
When I was younger, I confessed to my priest about a sin but I didn't believe everything I did was a sin. The priest rightfully forbade me from communion. One day, I walked into church while my priest was giving a sermon in the first liturgy. I saw him starring at me and he basically turned his whole sermon into a condemnation of what I did. He didn't mention my name but he gave a lot of details and how I refused to repent. My Sunday School teacher figured out it was me. I think everyone will say this was a bad pastoral approach.
Or was it?
I came to realize my priest was right all along. Even though I was already forbidden to take communion, that did not change my mind. Even though I was immensely angry at my priest for calling me out in a sermon, it was the catalyst God implanted to wake me up. My anger turned into rational thought. Rational thought easily saw how I was wrong, which led to real repentance, not the half repentance I did before.
We can rationally list all the bad pastoral advise and actions all Coptic priests have done in the past. We would likely have a long accurate list. But what good does that do? Quite often, the problem is not the pastoral care itself, but how we interpret and respond to it. Here lies true humility. If we approach our world with the pride that says we know better than the others, then we will always find faults in others and in their pastoral care. But if we approach the world with the humility that says even if I know better, let God show me how to correct my faults first and submit to their pastoral care. Trust me the second approach is easier and more spiritually fulfilling.
I have to say the responses are quite emotionally dramatic in making statements. I presented my view, whoever wishes to disagree may, I am glad I don't have to argue with anyone who holds the keys to my church phew..
SeekingGod, take notes, this is it.
Minasoliman, between homosexuals themselves and homophobes there is a spectrum, definiey not characterizing everyone as so, especially not you. :)
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SeekingGod, take notes, this is it.
Minasoliman, between homosexuals themselves and homophobes there is a spectrum, definiey not characterizing everyone as so, especially not you. :)