I want to start out by saying I cannot talk to my father of confession about this, as I have no true father of confession. And please do not lecture me about how important it is to have one.
I am a woman in my mid twenties who, as the title suggests, has fallen in love with a non-christian. I am Americanized so my views on certain aspects (such as dating) will not mesh with the traditional Egyptian viewpoint of it being completely unacceptable. I started dating a non christian in my second year of graduate school. I knew from the beginning it would not go anywhere due to religion (he is atheist), but proceeded anyway. I proceeded because I do not believe shying away from things just because you do not see a marriage out of it. Statistically, relationships do not even last very long so I saw no harm in it at the time. This person has respected my religion and my physical boundaries from the very beginning-- I made myself very clear early on in the relationship so he could get out if he wanted to. Our feelings were still there and our relationship grew into something very beautiful. We both knew that if we were to last this long, that it would have to end at graduation. We will both be graduating from law school soon and the end is near.
It has been something that has been VERY hard for me to deal with because I truly feel like this person is my soulmate. I know I have to trust in God's plan, and His will, but this still hurts beyond belief and I am not sure what to do or how to cope. There is absolutely nothing wrong in the relationship other than the very important factor of religion. I am not even sure if writing on this forum will help me. I am a mess.
Comments
Graduating law school doesn't have to be the end. From what you wrote, it seems like a high possibility he will convert even if he says he doesn't want to. The way I see it, he looses nothing if he compromises his atheism. You loose eternal life if you compromise your Orthodoxy. Thankfully, our track record for situations like this end up with Orthodox crowning marriages.
The only way to get out of a mess is to stop, get out of the environment and see this objectively. The solution to every mess is abundantly clear when you can see objectively. Then objective solutions will not hurt (as long as it is guided by the Holy Spirit). If you can't see your solution objectively, then find a spiritual guide who can. If you want this to work, at some point along your journey, you will have to speak to a priest. There can't be any crowning marriage otherwise.
Here's a really good secret that applies to you...ask St Mary for help.
first of all let me commend you on mustering up your courage to write such an important and sensitive issue in your life on this forum.. that to me proves you live more as Americanized than Egyptian. Egyptians are rubbish to talk about anything of that sort.. hehe.. oops have I offended even myself?
ok, what I can say is that you had started this kind of thing on the wrong foot. The only reason being something you must be aware of I think, and that is emotions cannot be turned on and off. There is no way known on this globe of someone able to curb their feelings and modify them consciously as they go along, after all emotions are deeply rooted in the subconscious for the most part.. however you are absolutely great and very strong. While it's very common for young people to think they can control their feelings and actions within relationships that may or may not work, with time they drift away and lose control.. you are terrific for having kept the boundaries clear from the outset and also to not let yourself slip at any moment.. indeed it's commendable too on the part of the guy.. BUT, a very big but, as a Christian you should know that this is an extremely tough test you are going through because God may have let the evil one test you with a sweetened pill of a good respectful guy who could eventually lead you away from Christianity.. No No and No. Because you are a strong lady you should be very tough on yourself and act in a manner as though you are breaking off your arm that sinned or cut out your eyes only this time to do it with the much harder aspect of feelings and even more so to cut out a soulmate to use your expression without their support or understanding.. in fact rejecting it.. it's hard but I am a psychiatrist and get the feeling you're capable of doing it.. or as Remenkimi suggested if you see any reason why he should become Christian, I emphatically add, FOR YOU AND BEING CONVINCED IT'S FOR HIS OWN SAKE then why not give it a chance and help him. I must admit I don't see this happening from how you are describing the situation..
first and foremost, besides or even regardless of what I said pray.. this whole thing is permitted and watched by the One and He knows you and him inside out, so don't stop praying, but your other role is to start reducing contact, overcoming your emotions, and doing some replacement.. I don't know may be joining a choir.. buying Christian carols tapes and memorizing them.. or attending tasbeha.. what I believe you should not be doing in the period of desensitisation is to watch American or Egyptian for that matter romantic movies or comedy ones or any type really that talk about relationships in general..
I ask you to pray for me and my wife too and we'll pray for each other then..
oujai khan ebshois
I just wanted to say that I am sorry you have to go through this. Unfortunately pain is inevitable. And who know, this may be your only chance for love. (I am also female, similar age)
To love is to sacrifice. To love God...(I'll let you decide for yourself).
And yes, there is no one to speak to in the coptic church because to them "computer says no". They don't value emotions...marriage in the church is viewed from the perspective of compatibility and convenience. Romantic love is a second thought.
I hope you find peace
We need to be careful of what we say on here. And just because we`ve heard these things on other forums and experiences from others it doesn`t follow that the majority of clergy are this way. We need to understand the responsibility of the priests` divine office and the culpubility that we throw on them often times isn`t warrented but drawn from images and caractures that we`ve ``heard`` in convos and forums.
It`s time we use wisdom and discretion when talking to people on these forums especially ones who are sincerely asking. Why push them away further. Is highlighting the bad clergy going to be any benefit to her, or would it be better to present her with a good example of a shepherd who can aid in her choice.
I completely agree with you and your position on this.. you helped to remind me personally of the need to be extra careful until the day of my judgment.. however let's not forget that some members wrote from experience and these kind of forums help people vent and get corrected and guided by other people like yourself even. So thank you once again for your position and don't bash me or anybody else because I have said what I said.. I know you didn't mean to do that at all but it's just the tone of your message..
thanks once again
oujai khan ebshois
Hi, ophadece
Forgive my message if it offended you. However, I`m not here to tell people what they want to hear but what they need to hear. As I would hope for people to do the same for me. So again forgive me. It’s just that honesty and truth seems to go missing in this layered world of ours where we try to present ourselves as different from who we ought to be, especially on forums.
I didn`t bash anyone. I hope this isn`t how you interpreted my post. If anything, my post was about the new culture of clergy bashing and why it should stop. I keep getting advised by people to not post on this forum but sometimes these forums end up being a domino or ripple that just keep getting wider in criticism of church and priests and no one manages to put a stop to it. No one sits back and interjects and perhaps thinks that the demons are playing us like children. If i can tell you the amount of people who read posts on this forum that had their faith shaken or were offended spiritually I`d have to send you a newsletter..
I`m not trying to be witty or smart. I`m trying to say it as it is. Not everything that comes to our minds and hearts should be said. Do clergy sometimes make bad decisions? Yes. Do we sometimes need to discuss things publicly? Yes. But this needs caution and discernment. The entire world, whether secular, Islamic, etc is already persecuting us. Do we need to persecute ourselves too? How long can we last?
I’m not saying we cover up mistakes and sweep them under the carpet, but there’s a limit to what can be said, to whom & on which medium. The OP is a person who’s clearly making a choice that’ll affect the rest of her salvation and right off the bat people start burying our clergy and assassinating the divine office as if it’s a politically held position. Where’s respect, honour, obedience and prayer for our church fathers. Where has all this gone?
Even when St Athanasius wrote against Apollonarius (who used to be his close friend) he didn’t mention him by name because he still respected him as a bishop and didn’t wish to tarnish his image, hoping for his repentance. St Athanasius remembered his aid in fighting Arianism. So although Apollonarius took his defense of orthodoxy too far and himself fell into heresy, St Athanasius still loved him and respected him(the bishop’s office). If St Athanasius went this far where do we go with our priests who haven’t fallen into heresy but perhaps from time to time make decisions that don’t mesh well with reality. Fine, it happens. Let’s pray for them and move on. They are burdened beyond what we could know. I believe that obedience and faith in God will bring about the best result possible. Because all things work for good. Call me old school, but that’s how the fathers behaved. Those fathers that we use to battle protestants and liberals alike; then lets follow their example as well, not just their words. Of course, there are fathers who’ve called out others by name, and I do understand the need for that sometimes, but this isn’t one of those times where we label all “Coptic clergy” as such or such.
Ophadece, you’re right, I see the value of these forums where people can ask for help and advise when they’re in a right state of mind. But often times others will hijack these forums because they’ve become the know-it-all or the one everyone expects to respond. This creates ego & fakeness in some of the posters. It creates the need for preserving that online identity and people live vicariously through that. And at the end Christ will bring up all these words to them whether spoken or typed and they’ll be surprised as to how many people they’ve unknowingly stumbled.
Forgive me all. A blessed Advent fast and please take what I said with grain of salt since the internet can’t convey my emotions or demeanour.
Lets get back to answering the OP’s question. I’ve derailed this forum enough.
I cannot agree more.. God bless us all and help us all, all the time
oujai khan ebshois