STAY AWAY FROM EVANGELICAL CHRISTIANS!!

Zoxsasi

Has anyone seen this video

Some evangelical gives a talk about our Church. He starts by giving his condolences over our 21 martyrs. Then he starts attacking our Church, our faith and our sacraments. He says in his talk that every Christian (Evangelical) should evangelise us because we are not saved. 

Now, you probably know this stuff already about their attitude towards us, but what bothers me the most is that they are using the Coptic Narrative (I am Coptic) to vent their angry anti-Islamic rhetoric because indeed, unlike any other Church, we cannot be accused of invading Islamic lands. We are the indigenous Egyptians that succumbed to the conquering of our lands by the violent banner of Islam.

Now, my advice, is to sincerely stay away from these "Christians"

Apromise225

Not saying I agree or disagree

minatasgeel

@Zoxsasi, You shouldn't of posted the vid. You are just giving him attention being a protestant. He should atleast consider history, but he doesn't. if you watched the whole thing, I feel sorry for you. 

ShareTheLord

I think it is important to see how other denominations perceive and talk about our church. One must realize we must grow in understanding of our church so that we learn to see the flaws and inconsistency of what they say. We are bound to have a friend that has a similar understanding and it is our service and objective to defend our faith and clarify the misunderstandings in peace and in love. 

Zoxsasi

minatasgeel said:

@Zoxsasi, You shouldn't of posted the vid. You are just giving him attention being a protestant. He should atleast consider history, but he doesn't. if you watched the whole thing, I feel sorry for you. 

Hi Mina,

I feel sorry for you too. I'm so sorry for you so much also. Its hurting me.

But why do you feel sorry for me? I'm lost. I was just mad like hell when I heard this video. I've never seen so much nonsense being said.

Apromise225

I did not say not saying I agree or disagree about the video. The video is bad. But about staying away from evangelicals. 

minatasgeel

Zoxsasi said:

minatasgeel said:

@Zoxsasi, You shouldn't of posted the vid. You are just giving him attention being a protestant. He should atleast consider history, but he doesn't. if you watched the whole thing, I feel sorry for you. 

Hi Mina,

I feel sorry for you too. I'm so sorry for you so much also. Its hurting me.

But why do you feel sorry for me? I'm lost. I was just mad like hell when I heard this video. I've never seen so much nonsense being said.

exactly the reason i feel sorry for you, for wasting the time in watching non-sense. 

Zoxsasi

minatasgeel said:

Zoxsasi said:

minatasgeel said:

@Zoxsasi, You shouldn't of posted the vid. You are just giving him attention being a protestant. He should atleast consider history, but he doesn't. if you watched the whole thing, I feel sorry for you. 

Hi Mina,

I feel sorry for you too. I'm so sorry for you so much also. Its hurting me.

But why do you feel sorry for me? I'm lost. I was just mad like hell when I heard this video. I've never seen so much nonsense being said.

exactly the reason i feel sorry for you, for wasting the time in watching non-sense. 

Thanks Mina.

You are probably right. But - I feel many Copts are deluded to think that because we are raised "open" minded , that any Church will do. Its shocking to see how other evangelicals see us. Its annoying beyond measure.

These people have no apostolic heritage and yet look to us as if we are lost. I used to listen to Evangelical speakers.I will no longer do that.

geomike

If you scroll to around the 18 minute mark, you can hear him disprove his own point about baptism. He believes that it is unnecessary to be immersed in water and the you must only believe to be saved. 

Even after John 3 told him you must be born again by water and Spirit, and Matthew 28 tells us that Christ sent out his apostles to baptize in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, I really do not understand how he sees baptism as unnecessary and heretical even after all this scripture that he read aloud. 

- He barely knew how to say transubstantiation, yet he was teaching about the topic.

- He just recently learned about Ecumenical Councils, and the council he referred to in 451 is the Council of Chalcedon. He believes     that it was in this council that the Coptic Church split and came from the Roman Catholics... A simple wikipedia search would have   proven him incorrect.

- He thinks that we believe that the priest is the one who forgives sins.

- He thinks that we believe that we are crucifying Christ every Sunday by keeping his commandment, "Do this in remembrance of me."

 A lot of these points are incorrect only because they are things that our church does not believe. We are not crucifying Christ every Sunday, the priest is not forgiving our sins, but rather being a witness before God of our confession of sins as mentioned in James 5, and we did not come from the Roman Catholics.

I pray for his church because he certainly is not serving them with the Truth, which is how he defines what a Christian is in the beginning. We should not be angry with him or hate him, but we should rather pray that he realizes his fault. He is so blind to the truth even when he reads Scripture pertaining to the topic that disproves him he fails to see it. 

There's no sense in getting upset with him. We should not lose our inner peace over something like this. Our clergy are all very learned and scholastic people who know what they are talking about, let's rely on their knowledge. Let them see by our actions what we believe. You can send him an email if you wish via this link: http://gracechurchaustin.com/contact-us, but ultimately we should pray that God opens their eyes and make them realize the blindness they are suffering from. No reason to get mad, and there's no reason to argue in this thread. 

One of the reasons I left tasbeha.org and have not posted in a really long time is because of these senseless arguments. Thank you @Zoxasi for posting this video. It has actually made me feel blessed that I was raised in Coptic Orthodoxy and I continue admiring her never faltering theology and teachings. May God continually bless us and His church and may the prayers of the martyrs of Libya be with us. Amen. 

mnc_hnn

I didn't watch the video, but to be honest, (I am coptic) copts did not do a good job at keeping their country..we were humiliated by Turks and Arabs till this very day. Just imagine how life would have been if egypt was an orthodox country!!! Look at egypt as a location, compared to the rest of the world..barely any natural disasters, good weather and (used to be) fertile land for food. What if...

qawe

I agree he should educate himself about our beliefs and the rationale behind them more.

However, I do admire his zeal to evangelise us.  That is the natural and proper reaction if he believes that his faith is true, and thus ours is false.  I wish more Orthodox were as zealous for Orthodoxy (of course it's wrong to definitively claim a group of people are not saved).

minasoliman

Perhaps his seeking to evangelize us will ensnare him into Orthodoxy. I personally would lose patience with him, but I know several people who can sit down and have a fruitful discussion with him.

davidschanter

mnc_hnn said:

I didn't watch the video, but to be honest, (I am coptic) copts did not do a good job at keeping their country..we were humiliated by Turks and Arabs till this very day. Just imagine how life would have been if egypt was an orthodox country!!! Look at egypt as a location, compared to the rest of the world..barely any natural disasters, good weather and (used to be) fertile land for food. What if...

Our country was given up mainly because of the actions of Cyrus (Pope and Patriarch of Alexandria and all Africa) who at the same time was designated as the Byzantine prefect or governor. He was the "pope" according to the melchite line of patriarchs that claimed to be the legitamate line from St. Mark (as opposed to our Coptic line of popes) because they accused the Copts of being monophysites. Our pope Benjamin took advantage of the situation. Cyrus's line has since been powerless (politically), even though it still continues today (Pope Theodoros II, not to be confused with pope Tawadros II).  If Cyrus stayed in power and their line of patriarchs continued in this power, the coptic church's line may not exist today because of the aggression between the 2 lines.

Either way, we are strangers to this world. Do not lay up for yourself treasures on earth.

Girgisantony

[ edited by admin - insensitive and insulting comment ]

cyril

Please don't let the following links inflame your passions. Strangely, It seems that there are some (not all) Evangelical groups which seem describe our Church and all Orthodox Churches as non-Christian. As others have mentioned in this thread, we can pray for compassion, love, understanding and truth to blossom in the hearts of our Protestant brothers and sisters.


http://pulpitandpen.org/2015/02/16/coptic-christians-not-christians-southern-baptist-leaders-need-reminded/

http://thechristiancurmudgeonmo.blogspot.com/2015/02/are-copts-christians.html


http://m.thenational.ae/news/world/africa/evangelicals-woo-egyptian-copts


http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2011/februaryweb-only/egyptevangelicals.html?paging=off

qawe

http://blogs.ancientfaith.com/orthodoxyandheterodoxy/2012/06/19/whos-not-a-christian/

minasoliman

"I have been asked, for instance, whether I would consider a Baptist as a Christian. But why? Is it so he feels good? (So?) Is it so I’ll give him communion? (I can’t.) Is it so we can join together in humanitarian work? (I can do that with a Muslim.) Is it because he wants me to affirm that he believes in Jesus? (I believe someone when he says he believes in Jesus, but I don’t have to give a label to do that.) Is it because he wants me to say that he’s “saved”? (There’s a can of worms; I don’t know the answer, though, however one defines salvation.) Is it because he wants me to approve of his church? (How could I? If I really approved of his church, I would join it.) Is it because he wants to marry my daughter? (Maybe I should be rethinking gun ownership.)"

LOL!

Ioannes

I do not like protestantism in the slightest, but I do find it difficult to be a part of this church. Talking to Egyptians is like talking to a wall, no offense to my Egyptian brethren but you guys are some of the most hard headed people I have ever encountered. This is probably why I avoid the church like the plague nowadays.

Zoxsasi

Ioannes said:

I do not like protestantism in the slightest, but I do find it difficult to be a part of this church. Talking to Egyptians is like talking to a wall, no offense to my Egyptian brethren but you guys are some of the most hard headed people I have ever encountered. This is probably why I avoid the church like the plague nowadays.

Hi Ioannes,

I'm so intrigued by your background. Which nationality are you? 

Why do you find it difficult to be Coptic Orthodox? Is that because you are non Egyptian? 

How are we "hard-headed"??

Thanks

kassiane

I did not watch this video but I recently read a news story by evangelicals saying Copt s are not Christians!  I think the entire group of them needs to take a course in religious history!  Most seem to be of the opinion that Christianity was founded by wealthy businessmen of European descent with flashy trophy wives!!!

kassiane

to Ioannes:  I am a mix of Scotch, Irish, English, Dutch and German ancestry.  You don't know me but I just about guarantee that if you DID you would rethink about Egyptians being the most hard headed!  I give new meaning to that phrase!

Joshuaa

My prayers for you loannes. I remember your tribulations in your church. I have been going through some myself in my church.
I feel if you go back Ioannes and do what you are supposed to do without judgment or feelings of rejection by them then, then you are righteous before God.
There is also nothing to prove but that you know yourself in God.
I know that you probably know more about the Coptic church than any of them in your congregation but if you were to be Christ-like, then you would cover their sins so as not to dispute.

Disputes merely about words must not be suffered to divide those who think alike.
St Athanasius.

Joshuaa

I too dislike the protestant influences in church.
This is my disagreement with it; that protestants believe they have already received salvation when Jesus died on the cross. So when you listen to their songs or anything about them you can hear that they have already received salvation. It's not true that just to have faith in Jesus Christ you receive salvation.
Another point is independence. As we go through life we seek our own independence (the ability to do things ourself) and this has being subject to our parents teaching and what we learn from our environment.
If we follow the American protestant movement we can trace it back to the English King Henry the viii with his breaking away from the Catholic Church (independence). Then the puritans wanting independence from being governed by royalty and going to America. Then the Americans wanting independence from the English. They were able to do this themselves, however, when they gained their freedoms they lost their spiritual link to Christ in that we do the inner workings of the spirit ie repentance and other doctrinal workings of the Spirit in the Orthodox Church.

I feel sad at the introduction of the I have salvation already attitude creeping into our church and that it is evasive in our tradition.

Joshuaa

Another thing is that because protestants believe they have salvation by God's grace alone they cut off the ones whom Jesus choose to be His bride, namely, the apostles.
Jesus isn't going to marry Himself but that God's works prepare the bride in purity till the day of marriage.

In their independence the protestants are alone but the works they do do not come about as a result of being saved, but that it comes about by the preparation of the bride (apostlic tradition, our doctrine and the sacriments). As in the five wise virgins and the five foolish virgins.

Maybe when I'm in church I'm a little disgruntled at a lack of preparation (wishing everyone to go to confession).