Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Categories
- All Categories 13.8K
- General Category 10.9K
- General Announcements 184
- Faith Issues 3.4K
- Coptic Orthodox Church 2.5K
- Personal Issues 1.4K
- Prayer Requests 423
- Random Issues 1.8K
- Introductions 294
- Non-Orthodox Inquiries 232
- Youth Corner 606
- Hymns 2.5K
- Hymns Discussion 2.5K
- Technicial Difficulties 368
- Technical Topics 368
Combined Intercessions for Female Martyrs
Hello Everyone,
Attached is a picture of the "Combined Intercession for Female Martyrs" from Coptic Reader... What's different about this (from what I am used to) is that after St. Marina they have 4 more saints (Saints Irene, Anasimon, Aripsima, and Anastasia)
Can anyone provide the tune for this or a link of it being said somewhere? Also, has anyone noticed this or am I out of the loop :P ?
Thank you and God Bless,
Son of Christ
Comments
https://www.dropbox.com/s/fqi4vkj5x0ut7sj/Combined Female Martyrs.mp3?dl=0
To start, please take note that Coptic Reader has, at times, strayed from what the Cathedral/the cantors of the church/old church books have said. A prime example would be, in the case of the festive Hiteni's, the omission of H.H. Pope Kyrillos VI from the list. On the audio recordings here (I cannot remember which one) the chorus of the Cathedral has added Pope Kyrillos to the end of the Patriarchs' verse.
This appears to just be a case of dissension between sources. The festive Hiteni's (ie, the added long verses) often are changed from source to source, and to my knowledge, none are present on this site. However, this past Feast of the Nativity, my church's chorus deemed that we would end the verse at "nem Marini." If your priest/chorus/higher-ups request that you use all those names, perhaps it would be easier to have 2 verses starting off with "tishelet ente pi-ekhistos" with the second of these two asking for the intercessions of Sts. Irene, Anasimon, Aripisma, and Anastasia.
Now I am new to hymns and the distribution of them, so please do not take my word alone, I do hope this helps you, and if it does not, I pray that you find a source that will help you.
God bless :)
(meaning the first verse, and the second verse combined ?)
I get where you're coming from though, you think that they ' could ' be combined since they fall under the same title/category. In that case why don't we say any archangels together ? (we say them separately) !!!
So long as the order (male then martyrs, male then female saints) is maintained it's ok
As to why one could or couldn't split up the long combined verses that are added as 'alternate', think of it this way: I don't think anyone here would be confused if, for the male martyrs (Pachois epouro...) we said a normal Hiten for every saint in that verse- Sts. George, Theodore, Philopateer, and Mina, along with any other male martyrs we decided (ex, St. Abanoub). They're almost* all identical in structure- "Hiten nievki / ente piathloforos emmartyros / / Epchois..." The same applies to the female martyrs- if we didn't care about what Coptic Reader said but wanted to ask for the prayers of all those female martyrs, we could do what I just described with the male. However, it saves time (a lot of it) to combine the verses. Is it right to sacrifice maintaining the rites perfectly for the sake of 5 minutes? Thats a discussion every chorus needs to have with themselves.
Now as for your point about the Archangels, you're right- we couldn't combine all 7 (by name) into 1 verse because they're all distinct. However (and I'm going solely off of memory here) only the first 4 Archangels have an epithet: Michael, head of the heavenly; Gabriel the announcer; Raphael, the joy of hearts; and Suriel the trumpeter. I'm not sure off the top of my head what Sadakiel, Sarathiel, and Ananiel's verses look like, but if they follow a similar structure, then they COULD be combined.
But we wouldn't.
It's rare to ask for the intercession of an archangel other than Michael or Gabriel outside of either a) Pentecost season (Michael) b) Kiahk (Gabriel) c) a church under either of their names. I can't think of a solid reason there would be a need to say the verses for all 7 archangels by name. There's just no point! By similar logic, the verses for departed (canonized) Popes should stay separate. This makes much more sense in my head, I'm sorry for the jumbled logic everywhere.
By order, I mean the order of commemoration the church has- St. Mary, heavenly hosts, St. John the Baptist, other biblical figures (St. Joseph, St. Stephen, the Apostles, etc.), male martyrs, female martyrs, male non-martyrs, female non-martyrs, the Pope, metropolitans, bishops. Any time we ask for intercessions and/or prayers of large lists of saints, that (rough) order is kept. I meant that if you wanted to add verses for individual saints, you could, so long as you don't break that order (ex, saying St. Antony before St. Marina- female martyrs come before male non-martyrs).
*- there are saints/groups of saints who do not follow this pattern, and those should not be combined (ie, St. Teji, St. Habib Girgis, etc. should always stay separate since they are special.)